7 minutes ago, n00bzilla99 said:

You need a giant dose of chill man. Dras is one of the nicest people here.

Not on me, specially when he adresses me through others, not directly, like I'm doing right now.

1 hour ago, xerpo said:

***** please, Demo and Rhymer have been OP since the Core Game. Rieekan and TRC's are way more recent, and never became OP before flotillas.

Dont get me wrong, I disagree with every nerf done here. Demo and Rhymer just made better and more creative rebel players. Just let people play!

"Way more recent"? *****, please! Wave 2.

"Never OP before flotillas?" *****, please! Mothma trc swarm has been around since TRC's were released in, yep, wave 2! Flotillas actually hurt that build since now 2-3 opposing targets were pretty much untouchable at long range for those fleets.

And Rieekan aces has always been good. It just kept getting better. But I've been seeing it around here since...when did it come out again?

Oh right.

Wave 2!

That said there's nothing wrong with having a hands off policy regarding balance. I'm pretty glad the people in charge of this game don't share that point of view, but you're welcome to it.

1 minute ago, xerpo said:

Not on me, specially when he adresses me through others, not directly, like I'm doing right now.

Did it ever strike you that you are over-reacting? And your posts prove it.

11 minutes ago, Eggzavier said:

This thread is making my skin crawl.

Because of all the anti-squadron rhetoric I'm spewing or because of all the picture of ants spiders and scorpions? lol

I believe the problem is not the squadrons but the ships. It is so very easy to dodge out of a firing arc, particularly if it has blue/black dice and not "full red" like arqs, that all your gunships NEED to be your first/second activation. Which means you cannot have more than two gunships.

18 minutes ago, n00bzilla99 said:

Did it ever strike you that you are over-reacting? And your posts prove it.

Well my first post here was... passionate , if you like, is the way I am, I don't think I'm over reacting. Truth is that people can't read beyond that and see the facts and prove me wrong about them like @Madaghmire is trying to do. And its way more easy to just criticise the surface instead of going to the matter. Thats what your nice guy has been doing since I proved him wrong once. And I'm really fed up with the "untouchables" here.

2 minutes ago, xerpo said:

I porved him wrong once

Can we start using "porve" as a verb on this forum?

6 minutes ago, xerpo said:

Well my first post here was... passionate , if you like, is the way I am, I don't think I'm over reacting. Truth is that people can't read beyond that and see the facts and prove me wrong about them like @Madaghmire is trying to do. And its way more easy to just criticise the surface instead of going to the matter. Thats what your nice guy has been doing since I porved him wrong once. And I'm really fed up with the "untouchables" here.

Easy, man. Passion leads to the dark side.

9 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

"Way more recent"? *****, please! Wave 2.

"Never OP before flotillas?" *****, please! Mothma trc swarm has been around since TRC's were released in, yep, wave 2! Flotillas actually hurt that build since now 2-3 opposing targets were pretty much untouchable at long range for those fleets.

And Rieekan aces has always been good. It just kept getting better. But I've been seeing it around here since...when did it come out again?

Oh right.

Wave 2!

That said there's nothing wrong with having a hands off policy regarding balance. I'm pretty glad the people in charge of this game don't share that point of view, but you're welcome to it.

Wave 2 is almost 8 months before the Core! Wich is nearly a 25% of the total lifetime of the whole game so far! 1/4 of the time before Wave 2 it was only rhymer and demo. If you played that time you should know. Mothma TRC was a fun hypothetical list that never left imagination of many and when actually played proved to be way below the expectations.

Yes Rieekan aces were good, because we needed good stuff to counter OP demo and OP rhymer!!! Whats the point on bat nerfing it all now????

Im not a swarm user and I personaly think that very few here actualy uses swarm builds consiting on a 10 spam ship. Show me tournaments results. Because of that hypotetical absurd build now people cant properly use TRC for what they were meant for. It's ridiculous.

4 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

Can we start using "porve" as a verb on this forum?

Sorry, not my language.

@xerpo If you say things, and people don't agree with you, they will give their own opinions.

If you say things in a really obnoxious away, and people do not agree with you, they will give their own opinions, but also have a problem with the obnoxiousness.

6 minutes ago, xerpo said:

Sorry, not my language.

No worries bud and I wasn't really meaning to attack you, just trying to lighten the mood a bit. Besides you can own it and start the next "Ben."

Just now, CaribbeanNinja said:

@xerpo If you say things, and people don't agree with you, they will give their own opinions.

If you say things in a really obnoxious away, and people do not agree with you, they will give their own opinions, but also have a problem with the obnoxiousness.

Am I being obnoxious? I'm just trying to make a point here, you guys can be quite jumpy. I've seen real worse in others.

At least he could adress me directly, not through others. Eeven if I am apparently obnoxious.

I learned a word today. Thanks.

1 hour ago, xerpo said:

This is nonsense. Armada going down real fast. Thanks to cryers all over the other ******* side of the world.

Xerpo, Do you not see that by saying this in an Armada forum, you are inviting a backlash?

27 minutes ago, xerpo said:

Well my first post here was... passionate , if you like, is the way I am, I don't think I'm over reacting. Truth is that people can't read beyond that and see the facts and prove me wrong about them like @Madaghmire is trying to do. And its way more easy to just criticise the surface instead of going to the matter. Thats what your nice guy has been doing since I proved him wrong once. And I'm really fed up with the "untouchables" here.

"facts." By coming and shouting your opinion basically, you are presenting them as facts, when in reality those are your opinions, not facts.

A lot of people here thought Rieekan Aces were far more OP than "OP rhymer or OP demo" as you so claim were the kings of the castle. I'm inclined to agree because at worlds, the mix of all the different meta's, the top tier lists all had two things in common: Rieekan and Aces. One list out of the top 10 had Demo in it, and the rest were pretty much copy + paste of Rieekan lists. It strikes me that the Rieekan Aces perhaps are more widely seen (and for good reason) as more powerful to other people if 9/10 of the top worlds list brought similar style lists using Rieekan and Aces.

Also, TRC's were crazy good before. Too good for their points cost. Now they are just good cause you can only use them once.

Nobody is "untouchable," you're just way off base.

Soooo, away from the whole back biting side of this thread....

Do flotillas still need nerfing ref. activation advantage? The two most egregious uses for them (multiple bomber commands and life boating) have been nerfed. Given, Relay is a bit of an issue, but padding out fleets with activations isn't the sure fire win strategy people take it for, and generally if a flot has a role (slicing, being a carrier, even comms netting) it'll end up in someones arc in at least red range.

Im all on board with the recent nerfs but i reckon we need to be a little circumspect with beating the drum for yet more. Before we know it we'll have nerfed ourselves back to wave 2...

9 minutes ago, xerpo said:

At least he could adress me directly, not through others.

I did respond.

Directly.

14 minutes ago, xerpo said:

Wave 2 is almost 8 months before the Core! Wich is nearly a 25% of the total lifetime of the whole game so far! 1/4 of the time before Wave 2 it was only rhymer and demo. If you played that time you should know. Mothma TRC was a fun hypothetical list that never left imagination of many and when actually played proved to be way below the expectations.

Yes Rieekan aces were good, because we needed good stuff to counter OP demo and OP rhymer!!! Whats the point on bat nerfing it all now????

Im not a swarm user and I personaly think that very few here actualy uses swarm builds consiting on a 10 spam ship. Show me tournaments results. Because of that hypotetical absurd build now people cant properly use TRC for what they were meant for. It's ridiculous.

Mothma swarm was how I beat demo lists in wave 2. It was excellent, but I'll grant people didn't seem to play it as much in other metas based on the data at the time.

Also, going back a bit, Demo and rhymer were not issues since core. They were issues from wave one. But those are different things. I'm legitmately too lazy to go back and look at what that does to the 8 month figure. My point remains, these things have been around a good long time, so if your argument regarding the nerfs of Rhymer/Demo being more (I guess palatable, since you are against all the nerfs but seem to be less against those?) palatable, centers on time in the spotlight, I think its pretty well demonstrated all the things have been around long enough for the devs to get a solid read on their impact.

1 minute ago, GammonLord said:

Soooo, away from the whole back biting side of this thread....

Do flotillas still need nerfing ref. activation advantage? The two most egregious uses for them (multiple bomber commands and life boating) have been nerfed. Given, Relay is a bit of an issue, but padding out fleets with activations isn't the sure fire win strategy people take it for, and generally if a flot has a role (slicing, being a carrier, even comms netting) it'll end up in someones arc in at least red range.

Im all on board with the recent nerfs but i reckon we need to be a little circumspect with beating the drum for yet more. Before we know it we'll have nerfed ourselves back to wave 2...

I think they're gonna observe these changes first, if I remember correctly, they wanted flotillas to be a major part of a fleet, I don't see the changes they made moving away from that goal but rather just solidifying it.

1 minute ago, GammonLord said:

Soooo, away from the whole back biting side of this thread....

Do flotillas still need nerfing ref. activation advantage? The two most egregious uses for them (multiple bomber commands and life boating) have been nerfed. Given, Relay is a bit of an issue, but padding out fleets with activations isn't the sure fire win strategy people take it for, and generally if a flot has a role (slicing, being a carrier, even comms netting) it'll end up in someones arc in at least red range.

Im all on board with the recent nerfs but i reckon we need to be a little circumspect with beating the drum for yet more. Before we know it we'll have nerfed ourselves back to wave 2...

It'll depend as far as I see. I think the flotilla nerf was good, as it pretty drastically affects the gameplay. If I remember correctly from Euros, there was a list that was an ISD and 4 Gozantis, and another of Demo, something else, and 3 Gozantis. Having to put your admiral on one of those bigger ships changes things a lot, and makes something like that ISD a huge target, easily swinging a game back in to your favor if you can take it down. I think we'll have to see how it plays out, as these were all pretty big changes.

I think they did this to see if it would help the activation issue without changing the fundamental mechanics of the game.

25 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

Xerpo, Do you not see that by saying this in an Armada forum, you are inviting a backlash?

You all know what is my opinion on the Rieekan Hysteria when it won the "worlds" and my opinion about the minnesota meta and how it affects (by naming it worlds) to the whole world. Surprise! So Im just going over it one more time to answer this guys here because he might not know me yet.

18 minutes ago, n00bzilla99 said:

A lot of people here thought Rieekan Aces were far more OP than "OP rhymer or OP demo" as you so claim were the kings of the castle. I'm inclined to agree because the top tier lists all had two things in common: Rieekan and Aces.

So, hello friend, please read above. Rieekan is meta THERE, not ANYWHERE else. And because THEIR crys in a single tournament (no notices of Rieekan winning anything else, Rhymer has won here way more stores and regionals) the WHOLE world gets a nerf on Rieekan, in places that we thouhgt it was just fun.

@CaribbeanNinja Yes, those are not the manners and I realized it time before. I could and should have perfectly skipped that last sentence, so I apologize to anyone offended by that.

My opinion about the minnesota meta affecting the world remains.

3 minutes ago, xerpo said:

You all know what is my opinion on the Rieekan Hysteria when it won the "worlds" and my opinion about the minessota meta and how it affects (by naming it worlds) to the whole world. Surprise! So Im just going over it one more time to answer this guys here because he might not know me yet.

So, hello friend, please read above. Rieekan is meta THERE, not ANYWHERE else. And because THEIR crys in a single tournament (no notices of Rieekan winning anything else, Rhymer has won here way more stores and regionals) the WHOLE world gets a nerf on Rieekan, in places that we thouhgt it was just fun.

@CaribbeanNinja Yes, those are not the manners and I realized it time before. I could and should have perfectly skipped that last sentence, so I apologize to anyone offended by that.

My opinion about the minnesota meta affecting the world remains.

It's not just Minnesota though. Players came from Canada and all over America to play there. Like, you can SAY it was just Minnesota, but that's not true, even if you want it to be.

4 minutes ago, geek19 said:

It's not just Minnesota though. Players came from Canada and all over America to play there. Like, you can SAY it was just Minnesota, but that's not true, even if you want it to be.

How would you call it then? A national championship?

Its obvious there was not enough representation, just look at the Europeans. We name them the Europeans at least, wich includes more than two countries and had respresentation from 6 different ones at least.

You can certainly unify the European meta. Can you say the same about the 90% US and 10% Canadian meta?

1 minute ago, xerpo said:

How would you call it then? A national championship?

Its obvious there was not enough representation, just look at the Europeans. We name them the Europeans at least, wich includes more than two countries and had respresentation from 6 different ones at least.

You can certainly unify the European meta. Can you say the same about the 90% US and 10% Canadian meta?

Probably not. Pretty sure the Ameri-Canadian pool is larger and resists unification with walls of Moose.

2 minutes ago, xerpo said:

How would you call it then? A national championship?

Its obvious there was not enough representation, just look at the Europeans. We name them the Europeans at least, wich includes more than two countries and had respresentation from 6 different ones at least.

You can certainly unify the European meta. Can you say the same about the 90% US and 10% Canadian meta?

Sure, call it whatever you want, but it's not just Minnesota. When the best players in the tournament almost ALL showed up with Rieekan Aces, that's a sign something is wrong with the Admiral and he's too good.