https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/6/20/squadron-battle-plans/

yum. Do note those reasonings.

If flotillas are really affecting the activation game so much...why just this small nerf?

Sure, no lifeboat rule is nice and all, but it doesn't really remedy the activation bloat, does it?

1 minute ago, Green Knight said:

If flotillas are really affecting the activation game so much...why just this small nerf?

Sure, no lifeboat rule is nice and all, but it doesn't really remedy the activation bloat, does it?

This is my question.

Yes, that was the first thing that sprung to my mind too.

Rhymmer nerfed greately.. Sad times

45 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

If flotillas are really affecting the activation game so much...why just this small nerf?

Sure, no lifeboat rule is nice and all, but it doesn't really remedy the activation bloat, does it?

maybe more will come once they see how this new rule pans out.

but I still want a pass rule

Now that I'm at work and not trying to write as I run out the door...

Most of the errata seems pretty straightforward and hits key fleets top (hopefully) open up the meta. As always, it remains to be seen if this will do what they hoped.

The flotilla errata seems too weak as it fails to address the use of 3+ flotillas. Instead, commanders get moved onto a bulkier ship (or a hammerhead for a few points more) and use the flotillas to relay the squadrons that are already in the action. Riekeen got hit hard, but it just means swapping him for someone else (Dodonna) and generic squadrons. I'm interested to see if this actually fixes anything.

3 hours ago, Green Knight said:

If flotillas are really affecting the activation game so much...why just this small nerf?

Sure, no lifeboat rule is nice and all, but it doesn't really remedy the activation bloat, does it?

I think the change to not a lifeboat, to BCC not stacking, and Demo not after engine techs will help a bit. With the range reduction on Demo you get a bit more leeway in the activation arms race. With BCC's not stacking and no lifeboating the flotilla's utility is reduced. With the Commander needing to go on a ship those 18-23 points for a flotilla will look a bit better as upgrading and upgrades to a "proper" flagship.

Also don't forget the change to Rhymer. He won't be able to stand off as much which should have some effect as well bring everything in a bit closer including the flotillas pushing the Rhymerball. It should also show how much of problem relay is.

All in all these changes should reduce the bloat some.

I'm glad the pendulum hasn't fully swung over. I think with the introduction of the Hammerhead (also cheap and utilitarian) I'm hoping FFG has some other tricks/cards up their sleeves to balance things without having to rewrite the entire ruleset or too many more upgrade cards and ruin the game.

As mentioned above, if they know the concern about the flotillas gaining fleet activations, the nerf to not allowing commanders on them isn't enough to "fix" that. Yesterday when it first became public I thought, what's going to stop the all Flotillas and one/maybe two major actual fight ships accompanied by max squadrons with relay? That to me immediately becomes the predominant meta archetype.

Granted, I understand Flotillas are necessary to help gain activations for fleets that have larger ship(s), but just having 5ish flotillas that run and use squad commands via relay and 1 actual fighting ship is what I have an issue with.

9 minutes ago, RStan said:

As mentioned above, if they know the concern about the flotillas gaining fleet activations, the nerf to not allowing commanders on them isn't enough to "fix" that. Yesterday when it first became public I thought, what's going to stop the all Flotillas and one/maybe two major actual fight ships accompanied by max squadrons with relay? That to me immediately becomes the predominant meta archetype.

Granted, I understand Flotillas are necessary to help gain activations for fleets that have larger ship(s), but just having 5ish flotillas that run and use squad commands via relay and 1 actual fighting ship is what I have an issue with.

Summoning @Aresius

Your fleet isn't affected at all, is it?

I'm going to continue to assume the bigger flotilla fear is Sloane. 8 Ties and Howlrunner backed by a Quasar with Flight Controllers is going to be pretty darn good at matching bigger squad builds. Its also going to burn down those scatter and evade tokens on flotillas in a single run.

Tie Defenders will be likely just as good with her, given the blue bomber die so now every face hurts.

1 hour ago, RStan said:

As mentioned above, if they know the concern about the flotillas gaining fleet activations, the nerf to not allowing commanders on them isn't enough to "fix" that. Yesterday when it first became public I thought, what's going to stop the all Flotillas and one/maybe two major actual fight ships accompanied by max squadrons with relay? That to me immediately becomes the predominant meta archetype.

Granted, I understand Flotillas are necessary to help gain activations for fleets that have larger ship(s), but just having 5ish flotillas that run and use squad commands via relay and 1 actual fighting ship is what I have an issue with.

I think what you are seeing is an incremental fix. They probably don;t want to go too far. If the flotilla domination continues to happen at this point I'm not sure anyone would be surprised to see FFG nerf it again.

As to the fighter/flotilla meta, considering the long development time, I get the feeling what we are seeing is a bit of lag between the development and meta changes. The majority of the last waves seemed to be meant to specifically buff the fighter game and small ships. the pendulum might have swung too far but the Quasar and the Hammerhead were already set to be released. Hopefully the next wave bring it back in line a little bit more.

5 hours ago, Green Knight said:

If flotillas are really affecting the activation game so much...why just this small nerf?

Sure, no lifeboat rule is nice and all, but it doesn't really remedy the activation bloat, does it?

It's not activation bloat it is letting larger ships play the game that is all about activations. It is a basic mechanic of the game. If you don't like the way activations work I think you are going to be sad for a long time waiting for a "fix".

Now that Flotillas can't carry your commander safely away from combat if you take flotillas strictly for activations and keep them away from combat you have spent points that give you nothing but activations. I don't see what the problem with this is. One might complain that the rebels can do it for way cheaper than the Empire, but then the Rebels didn't need the extra activations so much.

Sure most fleets will have flotillas, but I would argue that the rest of the the fleets are more diverse with flotillas than without.

I don't mind the squadron game being good and potentially dominate in the meta, but what I do mind is having a part of a list/fleet be incremental in the fleet's capabilities to perform it's strategy and not be present in the fighting at all. Mass amounts of flotillas that give you activation + relay create that problem currently. X-Wing had this issue with Manaroo before her nerf partnered with Dengar. Maybe the next thing to look at isn't Flotillas, but how Relay works. Maybe the VCX or Lambda itself needs to be in regular squad commanding range and it bounces it out further from there. That would force Flotillas to be in medium range of the Relay ship OR you could take Boosted Comms to help out with the network of Relay squadrons.

I'm still excited to see how these current erratas from the FAQ shape up Armada and maybe none of what I mentioned above is an issue. We'll see

5 hours ago, Green Knight said:

If flotillas are really affecting the activation game so much...why just this small nerf?

Sure, no lifeboat rule is nice and all, but it doesn't really remedy the activation bloat, does it?

I support all of the changes FFG made with this FAQ.

I also agree with green knight that the activation padding is still a problem... I tried building a competitive fleet without at least 1 flotilla and I was not able to put something together that I liked. I think I might pull it off with Rebels but as Imperial I would be so limited in my options since having only 3 activation is a no-go.

But changing too many things at once is usually not good. So let's just try out how these changes work.

FFG did a good job with these Errata so I am confident they understand what is going on in the game and if anything needs further adjusting they will do it.

...Now give me copies of all the Cards with new text in the next Campaign expansion ;-)

5 hours ago, Green Knight said:

If flotillas are really affecting the activation game so much...why just this small nerf?

Sure, no lifeboat rule is nice and all, but it doesn't really remedy the activation bloat, does it?

By not being able to take a life boat, you need to shuffle your commanders to a ship, so you need to choose another note expensive ship, or one you already have, effectively making that given much more costly is the idea. The cheapest lifeboat is about 2 flotilla. If you decide to have one. I figure this will have more impact on rebels than imps.

Never had an opponent stack bcc, for diminishing returns it was always too many points. So that doesn't really affect TO.

Since you cannot put your commander onto a flotilla, you must ask yourself two questions.

1) If I buy a ship and stay away from the action, how much firepower is wasted?

2) How robust a ship should my commander be in? Every flotilla I buy means a more fragile flagship.

I'm relying on the experts of this forum to tell me the ins and outs of this FAQ, but my hope is it helps create a game of capital ships with their fighter support battling it out rather than squadron fights with ship support. I'm a simple kinda guy.

14 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

I'm relying on the experts of this forum to tell me the ins and outs of this FAQ, but my hope is it helps create a game of capital ships with their fighter support battling it out rather than squadron fights with ship support. I'm a simple kinda guy.

The only way this addresses this as a "problem" is that it removed the ability for certain Imperial Squadrons to Bomb a Capital Ship while being out of range of any potential return fire when the ship activates.

Now you're always in the enemy's range while bombing.

It doesn't directly address the "problem" otherwise.

But I will also wilfully admit, I already to see a game of Capital Ships with Fighter Support battling it out. So I don't see your "Problem".

28 minutes ago, Darthain said:

Never had an opponent stack bcc, for diminishing returns it was always too many points. So that doesn't really affect TO.

Then you should be thankful.

Two bcc and Toryn. Oh my that hurts.

Claiming it was 'too many points' based on lack of experience isn't really empirically based.

8 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

The only way this addresses this as a "problem" is that it removed the ability for certain Imperial Squadrons to Bomb a Capital Ship while being out of range of any potential return fire when the ship activates.

Now you're always in the enemy's range while bombing.

It doesn't directly address the "problem" otherwise.

But I will also wilfully admit, I already to see a game of Capital Ships with Fighter Support battling it out. So I don't see your "Problem".

My "problem" well, I guess it might be an issue localized to my LGS; here squadrons and flotillas make up the bulk of fleets whereas the capital ship bulk is the minority to the point of being near extinct. It is my hope the FAQ reverses this balance so the game can be primarily about capital ships.

7 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

My "problem" well, I guess it might be an issue localized to my LGS; here squadrons and flotillas make up the bulk of fleets whereas the capital ship bulk is the minority to the point of being near extinct. It is my hope the FAQ reverses this balance so the game can be primarily about capital ships.

You and so many other people....

It's gotten to the point where seeing that clump of 8-12 fighters before they deploy just turns me off from playing.

Looks like I'll be spending half my game on snub rolls....

Fun.... I'm so excited to see what generic x-wing 7 rolls... oh look a damage.... I wonder what generic x-wing 8 is gonna roll... oh look another damage... rinse and repeat 40 times

I'm fortunate that many people at our LGS share my distaste for squadron play... we do 600 point no-squad match ups that usually wrap up faster than a standard 400 that has 2 full fighter wings...

1 minute ago, Darth Sanguis said:

You and so many other people....

It's gotten to the point where seeing that clump of 8-12 fighters before they deploy just turns me off from playing.

Looks like I'll be spending half my game on snub rolls....

Fun.... I'm so excited to see what generic x-wing 7 rolls... oh look a damage.... I wonder what generic x-wing 8 is gonna roll... oh look another damage... rinse and repeat 40 times

I'm fortunate that many people at our LGS share my distaste for squadron play... we do 600 point no-squad match ups that usually wrap up faster than a standard 400 that has 2 full fighter wings...

i mean, if you dislike Rebels hitting you with squads, you have interceptors. With a Quasar, Flight Controllers, and 6 TIE interceptors, you can mulch through a mess of squadrons FAST...

Just now, geek19 said:

With a Quasar, Flight Controllers, and 6 TIE interceptors, you can mulch through a mess of squadrons FAST...

Yes! Yes!