Ok hes been changed, and I understand why.

But maybe I am missing it, well I am missing it, what exactly is the benefit of taking Rhymer now? pre nerf, black AA dice couldn't shoot at Rhymer, QLT couldn't shoot at Rhymer etc. now they both can, and frankly I am not seeing much difference between range 1 and Close range, the main, ok one of the main benefits has been removed, now you can black dice / QLT Rhymer and co. The, being able to sit and shoot stuff without being squad activated due to medium range was the other main benefit.

And please understand this is not a crying thread, or a "I want him changing back" thread, I honestly feel they changed it to being pretty pointless, apart from some edge cases where speed/range may be a factor. Would it not have been better to rework him entirely? while the opportunity was there to do so.

Comparing him now to the other Imp bomber Ace (Captain Jonus), guaranteed accuracys, have they just flipped it so now that he is taken primarily and Rhymer becomes the left at home?

OK, that is my question for everyone : Why would you use Rhymer over Captain Jonus?

You can fit a lot more bombers in Close Range of an arc than you can at Range 1 of an arc.

2 minutes ago, TheEasternKing said:

Ok hes been changed, and I understand why.

But maybe I am missing it, well I am missing it, what exactly is the benefit of taking Rhymer now? pre nerf, black AA dice couldn't shoot at Rhymer, QLT couldn't shoot at Rhymer etc. now they both can, and frankly I am not seeing much difference between range 1 and Close range, the main, ok one of the main benefits has been removed, now you can black dice / QLT Rhymer and co. The, being able to sit and shoot stuff without being squad activated due to medium range was the other main benefit.

And please understand this is not a crying thread, or a "I want him changing back" thread, I honestly feel they changed it to being pretty pointless, apart from some edge cases where speed/range may be a factor. Would it not have been better to rework him entirely? while the opportunity was there to do so.

Comparing him now to the other Imp bomber Ace (Captain Jonus), guaranteed accuracys, have they just flipped it so now that he is taken primarily and Rhymer becomes the left at home?

OK, that is my question for everyone : Why would you use Rhymer over Captain Jonus?

Rhymer is still a reason to leave PDR and other "Distance 1" restricted ship upgrades at home. So there may be more of those still.

I'm in agreement with you @TheEasternKing , Major Rhymer's stock just took a huge fall. I think of all the nerfs today, his is the closest to needing a points change. Maybe 14-15?

He is still good, but by no means is he a no brainer.

I think Squall will be his new best friend.

Just now, CaribbeanNinja said:

I'm in agreement with you @TheEasternKing , Major Rhymer's stock just took a huge fall. I think of all the nerfs today, his is the closest to needing a points change. Maybe 14-15?

He is still good, but by no means is he a no brainer.

I think Squall will be his new best friend.

Today... The Day... The Noooooose-Punch... Died...

And I'm singing, bye bye miss Imperial pie. Drove a fighter to the levy but the levy was... in space.

Honestly, I didn't expect the Rhymer nerf. I rarely saw him anymore, but I guess if you're taking down Rieekan ace swarms, the other big anti-ship ball has to come down too.

33 minutes ago, TheEasternKing said:

pre nerf, black AA dice couldn't shoot at Rhymer, QLT couldn't shoot at Rhymer etc. now they both can

QLT still can't shoot Rhymer as it's range 1.

Yep, but what it does is remove point blank immunity from Squadrons being Shot by Ships - barring Obstruction. I think a One-Die Obstructed Shot is the only way they can bomb a Target, but not get bombed in return - and that means that they also need to have a 2-die Battery attack themselves...

Even if a ship only has a single black die, its going to be able to shoot at any squadron who wants to shoot it .

Rhymer still keeps you ot of the QLT and PDR range - but that range forgivness is gone.

55 minutes ago, BiggsIRL said:

You can fit a lot more bombers in Close Range of an arc than you can at Range 1 of an arc.

That and the modest (rather than extreme as he was previously) threat range buff make me think Rhymer's still in the game. He's no longer a bomber fleet auto-include, though. He's moved down to "you should give some serious consideration to him but he's not mandatory" status.

It's also an indirect buff to many of the anti-squadron upgrades that required close range (...which still suck) as well as black die flak ships (which are getting better all the time it feels like with wave 6 coming out and Flechette Torpedoes still being amazing).

I imagine with Sloane coming out shortly they found Rhymer just got insane in the right circumstances. He also fairly strongly limited Imperial squadron and squadron support design space as his ability always needed to be kept in mind when creating something new. Now that it's not as strong, perhaps we'll see some more experimentation there.

This must be because of Sloane playtesting. Otherwise this was the least desired of the nerfs. For the most part, I think they balanced the complainers well with their original intent for the card.

I'm just surprised Rhymer got the biggest nerf.

34 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Rhymer still keeps you ot of the QLT and PDR range - but that range forgivness is gone.

Well.. Rhymer still helps against PDR range but only because the card is as useless as before (PDR restriction is close range, QLT restriction is range 1).

12 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

It's also an indirect buff to many of the anti-squadron upgrades that required close range

Are there any? (other than PDR which I still don't expect to see in the actual play)

I think the FAQ article sums it up nicely.

Major Rhymer is the single most indispensable unit for squadron-centered Imperial fleets for good reason. His effect enables an extremely long threat range for squadron commands as well as setting up a dangerous passive-threat zone during the Squadron Phase. While this effect gives the Empire’s bomber squadrons their own signature anti-ship tactic, it also combines with the intel and escort keywords to dramatically reduce counter-play strategies. Major Rhymer’s ubiquity also prevents alternative fleet-building choices for the Empire.

This squadron’s effect now reads: “Friendly squadrons at distance 1 can attack enemy ships at close range using all dice in their battery armament.” This substantially reduces Major Rhymer’s range benefit and makes opponents’ interception strategies easier. However, Major Rhymer’s bombers can still outrange the engagement distance of enemy squadrons.

I'm quite happy I don't grab Rhymer right away now. Jonus looks a lot more appealing now.

And like others have said, it's almost 100% to do with Sloane.

This also buffs Flechette Torps too.

12 minutes ago, PT106 said:

Are there any? (other than PDR which I still don't expect to see in the actual play)

QLTs are distance 1 (not close) but it's easier to get stuck there now when you don't have as much wiggle room.

Both QLTs and PDR (initializations!) are awful, though, so it's largely academic.

48 minutes ago, PT106 said:

QLT still can't shoot Rhymer as it's range 1.

Yes my bad confusing QLT and PDR in my post Rhymer despondency.

6 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I think the FAQ article sums it up nicely.

Major Rhymer is the single most indispensable unit for squadron-centered Imperial fleets for good reason. His effect enables an extremely long threat range for squadron commands as well as setting up a dangerous passive-threat zone during the Squadron Phase. While this effect gives the Empire’s bomber squadrons their own signature anti-ship tactic, it also combines with the intel and escort keywords to dramatically reduce counter-play strategies. Major Rhymer’s ubiquity also prevents alternative fleet-building choices for the Empire.

This squadron’s effect now reads: “Friendly squadrons at distance 1 can attack enemy ships at close range using all dice in their battery armament.” This substantially reduces Major Rhymer’s range benefit and makes opponents’ interception strategies easier. However, Major Rhymer’s bombers can still outrange the engagement distance of enemy squadrons.

I'm quite happy I don't grab Rhymer right away now. Jonus looks a lot more appealing now.

And like others have said, it's almost 100% to do with Sloane.

This also buffs Flechette Torps too.

Not sure I buy he prevents fleet building, you want a load of Bombers, Rhymer made them better sure, but with no Rhymer, you're still going to take that load of Bombers you wanted.

And that is the point Undeadguy, you think Jonus looks a lot more appealing, so do I, to the point Jonus is now my auto include Bomber Ace, Rhymer could have been changed in many many ways, yet they choose the nuclear option, and I don't see myself ever using him again.

I mean if Jonus had been in from the start, and we just saw Rhymer as he now is, added in Wave5 or CC campaign set, would you have been excited about using him? not sure I would be.

3 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

QLTs are distance 1 (not close) but it's easier to get stuck there now when you don't have as much wiggle room.

Both QLTs and PDR (initializations!) are awful, though, so it's largely academic.

Agree on PDR, disagree on QLTs. I used them and they're solid in a right type of fleet. Given all these FAQ changes I may start using them again.

6 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

QLTs are distance 1 (not close) but it's easier to get stuck there now when you don't have as much wiggle room.

Both QLTs and PDR (initializations!) are awful, though, so it's largely academic.

Now Rhymer is close range only, is it possible to fit 2 squadron bases inside the distance from 1-2 on a range ruler? if not well QLT will be fine as you can prevent Intel empowered Rhymer from physically being outside range 1 (and being able to attack), just gotta be on the ball with placing your screen.

Got Nerfed!

Sorry I'm an idiot but could someone tell me what QLT AND PDR stand for?

I kind of wish they would have just given him a whole new ability. He doesn't seem worth taking now. I've not used jonus yet so this nerf would give me reason to try him out at least.

1 minute ago, ninclouse2000 said:

Sorry I'm an idiot but could someone tell me what QLT AND PDR stand for?

I kind of wish they would have just given him a whole new ability. He doesn't seem worth taking now. I've not used jonus yet so this nerf would give me reason to try him out at least.

Sorry should have clarified in my OP, QLT : Quad Laser Turrets, and PDR : Point Defense Reroute.

2 minutes ago, ninclouse2000 said:

Sorry I'm an idiot but could someone tell me what QLT AND PDR stand for?

I kind of wish they would have just given him a whole new ability. He doesn't seem worth taking now. I've not used jonus yet so this nerf would give me reason to try him out at least.

Quad Laser Turrets and Point Defense Reroute

*ninja'd

1 minute ago, TheEasternKing said:

Sorry should have clarified in my OP, QLT : Quad Laser Turrets, and PDR : Point Defense Reroute.

Thank you

6 minutes ago, TheEasternKing said:

Not sure I buy he prevents fleet building, you want a load of Bombers, Rhymer made them better sure, but with no Rhymer, you're still going to take that load of Bombers you wanted.

And that is the point Undeadguy, you think Jonus looks a lot more appealing, so do I, to the point Jonus is now my auto include Bomber Ace, Rhymer could have been changed in many many ways, yet they choose the nuclear option, and I don't see myself ever using him again.

I mean if Jonus had been in from the start, and we just saw Rhymer as he now is, added in Wave5 or CC campaign set, would you have been excited about using him? not sure I would be.

If we got Rhymer in CC, he would be just like Norra, added to every bomber list. Jonus can never replace Rhymer, and I don't think anyone would take Jonus over pre-nerf Rhymer in a bomber fleet.

I think they nerfed Rhymer since he is always in every bomber fleet. It hurts the 4 flotilla + Relay + Demo lists.

I'm happy with this nerf. I don't see any use for him in the future though. Close range just isn't long enough for me to get excited. Maybe if it was "Within medium range" instead of "At medium range".

1 minute ago, puntspeedchunk said:

Quad Laser Turrets and Point Defense Reroute

Thank you

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

If we got Rhymer in CC, he would be just like Norra, added to every bomber list. Jonus can never replace Rhymer, and I don't think anyone would take Jonus over pre-nerf Rhymer in a bomber fleet.

I think they nerfed Rhymer since he is always in every bomber fleet. It hurts the 4 flotilla + Relay + Demo lists.

I'm happy with this nerf. I don't see any use for him in the future though. Close range just isn't long enough for me to get excited. Maybe if it was "Within medium range" instead of "At medium range".

You're happy with the nerf, yet admit you'll likely never use him again?

Doesn't that strike you as a bit "they made him useless"?

Just now, TheEasternKing said:

You're happy with the nerf, yet admit you'll likely never use him again?

Doesn't that strike you as a bit "they made him useless"?

I don't think he is entirely useless, although I think it would not have hurt to also drop his point cost by 1~3. A 13 point Rhymer would not be terrible, especially given his defensive tokens.