21 minutes ago, Card Knight said:

Tell me more tell me more! I've been working on something similar

Annihilation at maximum range with multiple attacks. Three ARQs with Vader packing Slaved turrets and Intel Officers with an auxiliary fighter force activating through Jendon, with Jonus, to engage enemy fighters or be a spotter for the ARQ battery. Concentrate fire on the first target that comes into range to destroy it. Rinse, repeat. Stay at range.

Took it to tournament about two weeks ago and placed third, beaten only by a rebel swarm list with 14 generic rebel fighters, three CR-90s with TRCs, a Nebulon, and edge-of-board delay-activation GR-75s that hardly moved. I downed Cactusman's Devastator with the loss of only one ARQ (To demolisher on a return run) and a Liberty/Admo combination.

I don't think there's a good strategy yet for taking on Mythic's Rieekan aces list, which is why I hesitate to rate it as a strong archetype, but it's something the Empire can definitely use. Perhaps if I keep placing high with it I'll be sure it works. It's still all small ships, which doesn't help my griping that medium-big ships are in need of some perks.

1 minute ago, Norsehound said:

Annihilation at maximum range with multiple attacks. Three ARQs with Vader packing Slaved turrets and Intel Officers with an auxiliary fighter force activating through Jendon, with Jonus, to engage enemy fighters or be a spotter for the ARQ battery. Concentrate fire on the first target that comes into range to destroy it. Rinse, repeat. Stay at range.

Took it to tournament about two weeks ago and placed third, beaten only by a rebel swarm list with 14 generic rebel fighters, three CR-90s with TRCs, a Nebulon, and edge-of-board delay-activation GR-75s that hardly moved. I downed Cactusman's Devastator with the loss of only one ARQ (To demolisher on a return run) and a Liberty/Admo combination.

I don't think there's a good strategy yet for taking on Mythic's Rieekan aces list, which is why I hesitate to rate it as a strong archetype, but it's something the Empire can definitely use. Perhaps if I keep placing high with it I'll be sure it works. It's still all small ships, which doesn't help my griping that medium-big ships are in need of some perks.

Interesting. I've been looking at Spinal ARQs with Intel and Vader. It makes them pretty threatening out of all four arcs. I hadn't considered adding in Jonus to it though. Do you have a fourth ship? I switch between going super light on squads and have a Raider and Gozanti, or just one or the other and a heavier screen. The QF might fit in there as well.

I'm fine with the nerf, I always though the meduim range thing was way out there to be honest. Although they have hit him a bit hard. Maybe going for at ranges 1-2 would have been an appropriate compromise, if they had done that there would be less fiddling with range rules as well.

Just going to say: Its about ******* time. Five waves of overpowered imperials was more than enough.

Trouble with demolisher is not on the demo title, is on the engine techs card, they should read: "if you overlap an obstacle in your first movement, exhaust this card".

11 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Rhymer is still a reason to leave PDR and other "Distance 1" restricted ship upgrades at home. So there may be more of those still.

PDR is "close" isn't it? (but it sucks)

Only QLT is dist 1.

12 hours ago, xero989 said:

The nerf came because of Sloan and stronghold. Keep your swarm protected with stronghold and attack ships with Rhymer. Rhymer will still be good in a list like that but not amazing, also the stronghold will have to get closer to the action now as well. It's a good change for the current game, and a very needed one with wave 6.

Post!

12 hours ago, xero989 said:

The nerf came because of Sloan and stronghold. Keep your swarm protected with stronghold and attack ships with Rhymer. Rhymer will still be good in a list like that but not amazing, also the stronghold will have to get closer to the action now as well. It's a good change for the current game, and a very needed one with wave 6.

Double Post!

12 hours ago, xero989 said:

The nerf came because of Sloan and stronghold. Keep your swarm protected with stronghold and attack ships with Rhymer. Rhymer will still be good in a list like that but not amazing, also the stronghold will have to get closer to the action now as well. It's a good change for the current game, and a very needed one with wave 6.

Triple Post!

12 hours ago, xero989 said:

Idk why it spam posted that.

Postacular!

14 hours ago, Snipafist said:

I imagine with Sloane coming out shortly they found Rhymer just got insane in the right circumstances. He also fairly strongly limited Imperial squadron and squadron support design space as his ability always needed to be kept in mind when creating something new. Now that it's not as strong, perhaps we'll see some more experimentation there.

12 hours ago, Thraug said:

Another side effect: Quasar red anti-squad just became better. I'm still not thrilled with the Rhymer change. We'll be going back to the massive squad clusters again, and that sucks. Should have made Rhymer only affect 3 squads /turn?

Or, alternatively, only affect Bombers? That way it wouldn't be OP with Sloane. I don't understand why, if everyone fears Sloane lists with Rhymer, whereas now it's OK, they reduced the range, rather than changed who could receive the effect. Sure, Sloane lists with Rhymer are now in greater danger, but if they changed his restriction to Bombersnly, it wouldn't have been a threat in othe first place. . .

. . . also, as yet another 'casual player's out of touch viewpoint' comments of mine: I have only flown Rhymer twice (and the second time was against a Mothma list! Didn't use him). . . I don't even have him in my CC campaign. . .

13 hours ago, ninclouse2000 said:

I've not used jonus yet so this nerf would give me reason to try him out at least.

Jonus is cool. Gave me a reason to upgrade my Glads to type 2 (the extra anti-squadron is just gravy).

Double arc come out to:

2 OE black+ 1 red + red Acc (whichever one missed)

Acc + 3 OE black

Throw on the Concussions and good luck redirecting any of that safely.

Also, Jonus combined with a TRC Arq and you get to change 1 miss to a double hit and another to an Accuracy (so they can't evade that double). Nice.

7 hours ago, Card Knight said:

Interesting. I've been looking at Spinal ARQs with Intel and Vader. It makes them pretty threatening out of all four arcs. I hadn't considered adding in Jonus to it though. Do you have a fourth ship? I switch between going super light on squads and have a Raider and Gozanti, or just one or the other and a heavier screen. The QF might fit in there as well.

Three ARQs, two Gozantis for activation of my fighters thru Jendon, because Relay and everybody else is using a couple for activation padding. I'd love to escort Jonus with both Escort brace carriers, but Vader is needed to make the ARQ shots overwhelmingly lethal. In fact, doubling up with Jonus and Intel officers might be a little overkill, but between two sources of defense token restriction you can do some unpleasant things to the target you're shooting at.

2 minutes ago, SirDave said:

Jonus is cool. Gave me a reason to upgrade my Glads to type 2 (the extra anti-squadron is just gravy).

Double arc come out to:

2 OE black+ 1 red + red Acc (whichever one missed)

Acc + 3 OE black

Throw on the Concussions and good luck redirecting any of that safely.

Also, Jonus combined with a TRC Arq and you get to change 1 miss to a double hit and another to an Accuracy (so they can't evade that double). Nice.

Glad two demo is just to cool for custard...add in Jonus and you have a ship which hits every ship and fighter with a really big stick...give it RBL and it's got 8 hull equivalent speed four with engine tec.....this is my favourite ship in the game..... I love it.

27 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Or, alternatively, only affect Bombers? That way it wouldn't be OP with Sloane. I don't understand why, if everyone fears Sloane lists with Rhymer, whereas now it's OK, they reduced the range, rather than changed who could receive the effect. Sure, Sloane lists with Rhymer are now in greater danger, but if they changed his restriction to Bombersnly, it wouldn't have been a threat in othe first place.

Nope, this wouldn't be good as Rhymer is extending range AND makes bombers virtually immune to ship flak. With this nerf ship antisquadron dice aren't irrelevant anymore.

1 minute ago, PT106 said:

Nope, this wouldn't be good as Rhymer is extending range AND makes bombers virtually immune to ship flak. With this nerf ship antisquadron dice aren't irrelevant anymore.

I realize that, what I meant was if Sloane truly was the reason, then a way to preserve Rhymer as he currently is, yet also prevent Sloane Swarms, is to restrict his ability to bombers. That way, his basic ability and appearance would be unchanged. Thus, I have to think that they didn't change him this way just or even mainly for Sloane, but rather his 'no-brainer' appearance, which I dispute, as I gather from my own experiences and from comments here that he was not an auto-include.

Anyways, what's done is done, no use quibbling over alternative methods. . .

20 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

I realize that, what I meant was if Sloane truly was the reason, then a way to preserve Rhymer as he currently is, yet also prevent Sloane Swarms, is to restrict his ability to bombers. That way, his basic ability and appearance would be unchanged. Thus, I have to think that they didn't change him this way just or even mainly for Sloane, but rather his 'no-brainer' appearance, which I dispute, as I gather from my own experiences and from comments here that he was not an auto-include.

Anyways, what's done is done, no use quibbling over alternative methods. . .

I dont think Sloan was the only reasoning behind the change. Rhymer has been an issue since his release. Bomber balls, fireballs, future tie balls. Essentially, what I gathered from the article explaining their reasoning and to which i agree with is that they targeted cards that only presented upside with very limited down side. Basically was the card an auto include? Rhymer is a resounding "Yes".

Way back in the day I even posted an article about how many imperial lists created on the Warlord website included Major Rhymer. The data basically showed that there was no reason not to take major Rhymer.

While I don't think he was the most egregious of offenders, the nerf was well warranted while still retaining his utility, he is now no longer an auto include.

This to me is a good thing.

15 minutes ago, PartyPotato said:

Rhymer has been an issue since his release. Bomber balls, fireballs, future tie balls.

PP is saying they've taken our balls from us.

On another note, I do like what this does to the Corellian Conflict, as Rhymer was very strong there (and this coming from a loyal imp.)

The thing I like the most about the Rhymer nerf is that I think it'll open up the design space for future Imperial bombers.

6 minutes ago, Megatronrex said:

The thing I like the most about the Rhymer nerf is that I think it'll open up the design space for future Imperial bombers.

WOO. Can't second that enough. Till now it was Rhymer was basically an auto-include if you were taking bombers.

From a thematic point of view I think it is good if Imperial squadron ship killing ability is reduced. The Imperial doctrine using fighters was more of a support oriented than an offensive role. If it wasn't their big capital ships would have been dedicated carriers which they never where.

I rarely used Rhymer before and I don't think this change will change my frequency of using him at all. He is still a decently good character with a nice tactical ability which make him more flexible.

15 hours ago, Megatronrex said:

The thing I like the most about the Rhymer nerf is that I think it'll open up the design space for future Imperial bombers.

Making way for the Tie Punnisher and its many attack dice....

Jonus is good design.

2 hours ago, Mad Cat said:

Making way for the Tie Punnisher and its many attack dice....

I know the Punisher is more likely but I'd much rather get the Scimitar. It just looks so much cooler.

1 hour ago, Megatronrex said:

I know the Punisher is more likely but I'd much rather get the Scimitar. It just looks so much cooler.

If we do you can simply use these

56 minutes ago, Salted Diamond said:

If we do you can simply use these

I just recently started getting some of @melminiatures squadrons to use as some of my aces. I got the TIE Prototypes and some TIE Hunters. I haven't bought Imp fighter with the scimitars yet but when I do they'll be my stand ins for Captain Jonus . I would like to have something official though.

The other component we're still missing is possibly how good the new quad battery turrets will be. If they are a real devastating answer for anti squad use at range 1, Rhymer will still have a huge value.

FFG nerfed Drasnighta

On 6/20/2017 at 9:25 PM, ninclouse2000 said:

I've not used jonus yet so this nerf would give me reason to try him out at least.

This is the entire justification for the nerf, IMO. Sure, Sloan + Rhymer would have been an issue, but the fact that it's unthinkable to build a bomber wing without Rhymer is, IMO, all the reason we need to nerf him.

That said, I'm gonna miss his massive Area Denial.