" General Rieekan has become a popular choice of competitive players in Star Wars : Armada. His ability radically alters sacrifice play and—when paired with ace fighter squadrons—has created one of the game’s defining fleet archetypes. While this is very thematic, it has further combined with the activation benefits of flotillas to make General Rieekan lists extremely difficult to defeat in competitive play as well as crowding out other fleet-building choices for both factions.

The change in General Rieekan’s effect wording is minor but significantly increases the risk involved in using him: "Once per round, when a friendly ship or friendly unique squadron is destroyed, it remains in the play area and is treated as if it was not destroyed until the end of the Status Phase.” This change doesn't negate Rieekan's utility, but requires more careful management of casualties. It especially changes some of the tactics for confronting Rieekan fleets that use multiple small ships and aces, as destroying more than one unit during a round will overwhelm Rieekan’s effect."

So, can a Rieekan player choose when to save a ship/unique squad, or is it always the first ship/unique squad to die in a round?

Precedent states that the Upgrade is Optional up to its limit.

From the Jamming Field interactions (and FAQ/Errata) - In order for an upgrade card to be compulsory, it needs to contain must as a word in its triggering sentence.

This does not apply to Rieekan. You are free to choose if Rieekan activates for that one time per round when something is killed. If you do not, then it is still available to be triggered - but of course, once your timing window (destruction) is done, you cannot retroactively trigger him.

Granted, none of this is clear without referencing the previous discussion on Jamming Field, which lead to its Errata.

To basically rejit that discussion here:

• A “when” effect occurs at the moment that the specified event occurs and cannot occur again for that instance of the event.

• A “while” effect can be resolved during the specified event and cannot occur again during that instance of the event.

Notice the difference of the word "can" between When and While. This left us to originally believe that "When" was not an option - that it would always occur. And that may or may not have been the original intention, but Rieekan was previously a "When" and ruled as Optional, and Jamming Field was also a "When", but had to be errata'd to "must" to remove the option .

Ergo, on rules Precedence, The use of a "When" trigger does not inherently make it a compulsory card or effect. The use of "must" is required to make it almost as absolute as "Cannot".

2 hours ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

" General Rieekan has become a popular choice of competitive players in Star Wars : Armada. His ability radically alters sacrifice play and—when paired with ace fighter squadrons—has created one of the game’s defining fleet archetypes. While this is very thematic, it has further combined with the activation benefits of flotillas to make General Rieekan lists extremely difficult to defeat in competitive play as well as crowding out other fleet-building choices for both factions.

The change in General Rieekan’s effect wording is minor but significantly increases the risk involved in using him: "Once per round, when a friendly ship or friendly unique squadron is destroyed, it remains in the play area and is treated as if it was not destroyed until the end of the Status Phase.” This change doesn't negate Rieekan's utility, but requires more careful management of casualties. It especially changes some of the tactics for confronting Rieekan fleets that use multiple small ships and aces, as destroying more than one unit during a round will overwhelm Rieekan’s effect."

So, can a Rieekan player choose when to save a ship/unique squad, or is it always the first ship/unique squad to die in a round?

First unique squad/ship to die in a round.

Edit:

Never mind. A bit mislead by my little birds

jk

Okay, I'm really hoping that it is a choice. However, I wish that they would have been clearer on the card. The intention in the FAQ article "seems" to be that it is a choice, but it isn't crystal clear.

Why did they use "when"?

RRG: A “when” effect occurs at the moment that the specified event occurs and cannot occur again for that instance of the event.

Wouldn't the specified event be the death of a ship/unique squadron?

Edit: I mean, I realize I'm just rehashing Dras' explanation...just playing devil's advocate.

37 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

.....

Why did they use "when"?

.....

Edit: I mean, I realize I'm just rehashing Dras' explanation...just playing devil's advocate.

I mean, BEFORE this change. Did you think Rieekan was Optional, or not?

They most probably used a "When" because the Original Rieekan used a "When", and they just tagged on "Once Per Round."

And apparently, someone who did some playtesting related to me that there was a a contention in the ranks about "When" vs "While", thinking that one was discriminatory when the other wasn't and such - but they were otherwise meant interchangeably... In the fact that it was a matter of a colloquial term also sharing a "hard and fast" rules term, and the rules term being forgotten.

27 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

I mean, BEFORE this change. Did you think Rieekan was Optional, or not?

No I always thought Rieekan-zombification was mandatory.

1 minute ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

No I always thought Rieekan-zombification was mandatory.

I dare say, "so did a lot of people"... But apparently, its not. That's why they had to Errata Jamming Field. Which on its original incarnation, used the same wording as well - but was optional .

I mean, I guess this is why I "show my working" rather than just give a One or two word answer... Beyond the abuse, of course

1 hour ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

No I always thought Rieekan-zombification was mandatory.

Not the way the card was worded. It was assumed, but that wasn't supported by the actual wording, as all upgrades are optional you resolve, unless otherwise directed.

That STILL applies with the FAQed version.

This is great. I think Rieekan will 100% more fun to play, and play against now!

One thing GK pointed out in the other thread though...Where did the Jamming field FAQ entry go?

14 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

This is great. I think Rieekan will 100% more fun to play, and play against now!

One thing GK pointed out in the other thread though...Where did the Jamming field FAQ entry go?

If only we knew!

Clearly an oversight. Hopefully one they fix presently.

If it is mandatory, it is better not to bring unique squadrons with him since the enemy can snipe them before shooting e.g. admo or yavaris.

Not saying this resolves the question!

Just that it would be too much of a nerf. I would play it as optional in friendly games until resolved.

I really like this change, because now Rieekan had to decide which element of his plan is more important. He keeps Yavaris alive, but all his squadrons die?

But I think my favorite part is that by making him set up in a real ship, he has to be set up in the most important ship or risks being shot out and using his ability on an escape instead of preserving a unit that was critical to his plan.

If we're playing crazy questions: Rieekan on my Pelta, with Yavaris next to him. Demo has them both in his side arcs, and he goes and kills the Pelta first. Do I still get Rieekan's benefit this round if I want it to be the Yavaris for Demo's shot, or not? I think it's a not, since he would be dead and couldn't trigger something if he doesn't exist...

9 minutes ago, geek19 said:

If we're playing crazy questions: Rieekan on my Pelta, with Yavaris next to him. Demo has them both in his side arcs, and he goes and kills the Pelta first. Do I still get Rieekan's benefit this round if I want it to be the Yavaris for Demo's shot, or not? I think it's a not, since he would be dead and couldn't trigger something if he doesn't exist...

Correct. He has to be on the board to be in play. If he's shot and killed with the first shot, he's either 1) Removed Immediately, because he died, or 2) Stays until end of Round, because Rieekan - but if you do that, the Yavaris is SOL.

Just now, Drasnighta said:

Correct. He has to be on the board to be in play. If he's shot and killed with the first shot, he's either 1) Removed Immediately, because he died, or 2) Stays until end of Round, because Rieekan - but if you do that, the Yavaris is SOL.

Which is of course the right way to fight nuRieekan

9 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Which is of course the right way to fight nuRieekan

Indeed.

On 6/20/2017 at 11:06 PM, Drasnighta said:

I mean, BEFORE this change. Did you think Rieekan was Optional, or not?

He was filed in that category of "Optional, but really, why would you *not* use him?"

Of course, there are a few cases where you wouldn't, but not too many.

2 hours ago, JgzMan said:

He was filed in that category of "Optional, but really, why would you *not* use him?"

Of course, there are a few cases where you wouldn't, but not too many.

It has a significant impact on what objectives you can take with him. Superior Positions and especially Precision Strike are extremely risky if he's not optional, both taking them in your list or picking them from your opponent's.

In my experience old reeikan was always played as a must. Even in cases where it would have been infinitely better for the reeikan player to remove the dead ship. I'm talking precision strike while in the middle of a bomber ball. If it was optional obviously you are going to take that ship off the board the second it dies and deny me 90 pts in tokens. It was never played as optional until now where it is suddenly a question due to it only being able to happen once. Odd that.

1 hour ago, Hastatior said:

In my experience old reeikan was always played as a must. Even in cases where it would have been infinitely better for the reeikan player to remove the dead ship. I'm talking precision strike while in the middle of a bomber ball. If it was optional obviously you are going to take that ship off the board the second it dies and deny me 90 pts in tokens. It was never played as optional until now where it is suddenly a question due to it only being able to happen once. Odd that.

Old Rieekan was optional. It is the same case as the original Jamming Fields where FFG had to errata it to add the "must" that made it mandatory

3 hours ago, Hastatior said:

It was never played as optional until now where it is suddenly a question due to it only being able to happen once.

It's only now that people are thinking about it. It was always optional, because all upgrades are optional, unless indicated mandatory.

1 hour ago, JgzMan said:

It's only now that people are thinking about it. It was always optional, because all upgrades are optional, unless indicated mandatory.

He's not an upgrade.

He's a fleet commander.

Two very different things.

17 minutes ago, TheEasternKing said:

He's not an upgrade.

He's a fleet commander.

Two very different things.

Fleet Commanders are Upgrades, though.

As per Page 13 of the RRG.