The question is are Backstabber and Mauler Mithel worth the point in todays Meta, (Are they cost effective?)

Looking for feed back. I’m building a list for a store competition. Here Countess Ryad, and OGP will serve as the muscle while Backstabber and Mauler Mithel serve as the flankers. I intend to fly the two tie fighters like a single ship. (Fly them together.)

(19) = (16) “Backstabber”, ( 3) Hull Upgrade.

(20) = (17) “Mauler Mithel”, (3) Hull Upgrade, (0) Adaptability.

(36) = (34) Countess Ryad, (-2) Tie/X7, (3) Push the Limit, (1) Twin Ion Engine Mk II.

(24) = (21) Omicron Group Pilot, (3) Darth Vader.

(99) = Total

Mithel is a common 17pt filler, slap a 0-1pt ept on him and hes pretty deadly but still cheap enough to prefer to ignore on the initial attacks. Until the Striker popped up, which is just flatout more fun, i used him a lot as a filler and he generally did work.

Backstabber, not so much. Scourge is better if you already have Mithel as Backstabber can struggle to get his ability off at all.

36 points for Mauler and Scourge with VI has been a staple filler in many of my lists, and they often do quite well.

At this time, I don't own the Imperial Assault Carrier Expansion. Just trying to use what I have.

I do have one Tie Strikers, and a Tie/SF Fighter

Mauler is definitely worth his points, but Hull Upgrade is the wrong choice to put on him because it's too expensive.. Mauler wants Veteran Instincts as his only upgrade so he can move and shoot at PS 9 for a cheap 18 points total.

I wouldn't put hull on either. I would find an EPT for Mauler: Snapshot is fun for me! VI and crackshot are also great

Backstabber is tough. He's either a ps 6 academy pilot or a -2pt alpha interceptor with out Boost.

if you can pull hull off off both you can boost Backstabber to Zeta leader and get a shield and damage boost and PS.

19 minutes ago, Rakky Wistol said:

I wouldn't put hull on either. I would find an EPT for Mauler: Snapshot is fun for me! VI and crackshot are also great

Backstabber is tough. He's either a ps 6 academy pilot or a -2pt alpha interceptor with out Boost.

if you can pull hull off off both you can boost Backstabber to Zeta leader and get a shield and damage boost and PS.

Snap Shot on Mauler sounds like a decent threat, as there's nothing in his pilot ability that says it has to be a primary weapon attack.

I find I get my 16 points from Backstabber, one way or another.

Maximum troll - free red die for everyone. The trick is, this doesn't fly like anything else. There is no teamwork except for accidental crossings. Howlrunner flies behind bearish to somebody else - make sure to use the Rebel TIE for her - Mauler tries to get close, Backstabber and Sabacc fight for who is going to flank first. Colzet flies off around the edge of battle and doesn't even bother to point his guns much, just flips damage cards.

Watch your opponents face as you randomly place these ships on your side of the board as they try to dissect what your plan might be. I've made Mranda disappear in a turn with this firepower.

Aces Over TIEs (100)

"Howlrunner" (19) - TIE Fighter
Crack Shot (1)

Mauler Mithel (19) - TIE Fighter
Snap Shot (2)

Backstabber (16) - TIE Fighter

"Pure Sabacc" (23) - TIE Striker
Veteran Instincts (1), Adaptive Ailerons (0)

Lieutenant Colzet (23) - TIE Advanced
TIE/x1 (0), Fire Control System (2)

I'm going t try this variant shortly... Wish I had Scourge.

Aces Over TIEs (99)

Mauler Mithel (19) - TIE Fighter
Snap Shot (2)

Backstabber (16) - TIE Fighter

"Pure Sabacc" (23) - TIE Striker
Veteran Instincts (1), Adaptive Ailerons (0)

"Omega Leader" (26) - TIE/FO Fighter
Juke (2), Comm Relay (3)

Winged Gundark (15) - TIE Fighter

Quote

Snap Shot on Mauler sounds like a decent threat, as there's nothing in his pilot ability that says it has to be a primary weapon attack.

Snap Shot Mauler Mithel is a surprisingly effective ace hunter. I've seen him do moderately unspeakable things to high PS large ships, too - when people get a total of 7 attack dice to the face in one turn from a single TIE fighter, it tends to get their attention...

Backstabber is nice. Not amazing, but nice. At 16 points, he's self-contained; his ability is fairly easy to trigger, but he has limited options.

I wouldn't bother with hull upgrades. TIE fighters are fragile, but so cheap that spending 3 points on making them tougher is potentially not worth it.

Snap Shot Mithel and Snap Shot Scourge are a nasty pairing, and work well together. Double snap shots makes for a real "no go zone" in front of them and they have the same pilot skill (allowing you to chop and change movement order)

For Backstabber, I think it's a question of how he fits into your list and how he flies on the table. I see him in this type of a list as someone who lurks on the fringes and goes for R2-3 flank shots. If your list can handle someone like that, then you are good. So....I say it depends on how you play him and how he gels with the rest.

13 hours ago, devotedknight said:

At this time, I don't own the Imperial Assault Carrier Expansion. Just trying to use what I have.

I do have one Tie Strikers, and a Tie/SF Fighter

You have the SF, in which case those 36pts can be spent much more efficiently.

Behold,
A monster:

Mithel can be great filler, with a killer Range 1 punch - which used to be a great disadvantage, but in modern games where 2 dice aren't worth that much to begin with, his myopia at range bands 2&3 matters less anyway. With the preponderance of 0pt and 1pt cards out there now, his EPT slot can be worth more than ever, too.

Backstabber... is an explicit, dedicated flanker. His job is to tempt the enemy to attack him instead of everyone else first, and wreak havoc if they don't. Alas, imperial builds beyond formation-swarms (which have all but dissapeared) tend not to value having a dedicated flanker so much these days, and honestly, a 3-die focus-only flanker isn't really all that special any more. Strikers can do it, if you don't mind trading out PS for the same firepower, and be swifter besides. This has left him, once one of the best pilots in the game, feeling a little left out. The lack of an EPT doesn't help, given how many fantastic options are out there these days.

Scourge is a tough choice compared to either of them, though. One heck of a finisher, provided you scratch their paint at least once.

My love for scourge popped up when i ran Omega Ace, Backdraft, Mithel, and Scourge in the same list. All PS7, all equally dangerous (TIE fighters as a pair threat). It hits stupid hard if the opponent goes for the more obvious threat, Backdraft, because nobody expects the two TIEs (mithel and scourge) to just dominate their faces. Not once did someone go after the easiest to kill ships first and not once did they fail to kill something quick.

22 minutes ago, Reiver said:

Backstabber... is an explicit, dedicated flanker. His job is to tempt the enemy to attack him instead of everyone else first, and wreak havoc if they don't. Alas, imperial builds beyond formation-swarms (which have all but dissapeared) tend not to value having a dedicated flanker so much these days, and honestly, a 3-die focus-only flanker isn't really all that special any more. Strikers can do it, if you don't mind trading out PS for the same firepower, and be swifter besides. This has left him, once one of the best pilots in the game, feeling a little left out. The lack of an EPT doesn't help, given how many fantastic options are out there

What makes Backstabber so good us his affordability. For 16 pts you get a decent flanker at PS 6. Strikers cost more and it only goes up for the PS. Backstabber isn't all that special anymore, which means he can be ignored more. That's a good thing for him accomplishing more per match. What you get for the points is the good thing. He's not crazy powerful, but PS 6 with 3 red dice? I'll take it.

6 hours ago, heychadwick said:

What makes Backstabber so good us his affordability. For 16 pts you get a decent flanker at PS 6. Strikers cost more and it only goes up for the PS. Backstabber isn't all that special anymore, which means he can be ignored more. That's a good thing for him accomplishing more per match. What you get for the points is the good thing. He's not crazy powerful, but PS 6 with 3 red dice? I'll take it.

Or four red dice potentially, if you can get him in range 1. Agreed, he's reasonably cheap flanker in the filler role.

5 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Or four red dice potentially, if you can get him in range 1. Agreed, he's reasonably cheap flanker in the filler role.

I certainly like him. It always ends up an interesting question whether I want the flanking firepower, or a 15pt PS1 blocker in the TIE/fo.

The Empire has lots of really nifty little filler options these days. Hopefully the meta will eventually return to one where fillers are worthwhile.

I hear snap shot is "good" on Mauler. I've ALWAYS been completely unimpressed with counting on naked reds to do me damage. Especially in light of recent power spikes that make it common for my opponents to just nautrally roll 2 evades minimum every roll. I dont' even believe in blaming luck, but wow. Unimpressed.

They can be very scary, and I like the idea of the list. They shift focus from ryad who can punish the opponent in the meanwhile.

As others mentioned, If you remove hull upgrades you can get some more juice on the shuttle or a different pilot.

Either VI on mauler and a gunner on the shuttle, or maybe making the shuttle a hux shuttle with advanced sensors and hux on him. Would make your guys even more scary as well as more action efficient.

I know it's not what you are looking for, but for the price of your initiative bid and mauler/backstabber you could get omega leader and wampa. Just putting it to your consideration.

Mauler/Scourge/Howlrunner/Duchess/Zeta Leader : All with VI or Adaptability

Mauler Mithel is a good pilot. His ability work well is you love close combat. But he is just a tie fighter : He can live long enough to throw 4 dice or die quickly.

Zeta Leader/Scourge/Mauler/Backstabber/Dark Curse/Wampa

Backstabber is cheap and can do good damage if your opponent ignore him. Even if you lost him, you only lost 16 pts...Again he is a tie fighter and dice could be your enemy.

New Build

(24) = (22) Pure Sabacc”, ( 0) Adaptive Ailerons, (2) LWF, (0) Adaptability

(18) = (17) “Mauler Mithel”, (1) VI,

(34) = (34) Countess Ryad, (-2) Tie/X7, (1) Wired, (1) Twin Ion Engine Mk II.

(24) = (21) Omicron Group Pilot, (3) Darth Vader, (0) Collision Detector

(100) = Total

This is clearly just my personal bias, but in 5 years of X-wing, I've got Mauler Mithel's ability to proc three, maybe four times. He's not a huge target, but his defense/offense ratio is low enough that my opponents take opportunistic shots at him on the approach... and they're usually rewarded.

I've had far greater success with Backstabber, and he's cheaper. I really want to give Snap Shot Mauler Mithel a try, but 'once bit, twice shy.'

On ‎6‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 5:26 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

Snap Shot Mauler Mithel is a surprisingly effective ace hunter. I've seen him do moderately unspeakable things to high PS large ships, too - when people get a total of 7 attack dice to the face in one turn from a single TIE fighter, it tends to get their attention...

How is he rolling 7 dice? Snap Shot would be 3, but then he can't attack after using that ability.

All great and clear logic from very seasoned TIE pilots. If you cannot take my go-to TIE/LN filler/blocker Wampa, then yes, Backstabber is a fine substitute. Heck, ignored TIE fighters? Around here, if it doesn't have a red mark on the fuselage, no one cares about all but one of the TIE/LNs; and that, an be there downfall.....if they are unseasoned, unskilled, or their dice craps out (I'm talking to you oh Paratani lists). Howlrunner was and is is the grand gal of TIEs, but she costs more and she might elicit a wee bit of attention as she has to fly close to get her ability to proc. I'd say Mauler Mithel and Wampa are the best fillers and you already have Mauler and Backstabber, so the latter then. Forget upgrades on them though, that's pretty much a fools errand, unless a future T-65 TIE/LN legends Expansion Pack comes out that lets you run proton Rockets on TIEs and Photon Torpedoes on T-65s for free, then we'd be talking a wonderful one-shot upgrade; a guy can dream, right? I mean, that's what makes the TIE/AP Baron of the Empire with Title, Adaptability, and Proton Rockets the go-to Imperial Epic ship, IMO.

31 minutes ago, Superstrength79 said:

How is he rolling 7 dice? Snap Shot would be 3, but then he can't attack after using that ability.

3 dice for the Snap Shot in the activation phase and 4 dice in the shooting phase.

"You cannot modify your attack dice and cannot attack again this phase"

That doesn't mean you can't shoot during combat? Or is it meant to mean you can only use the ability once per turn when a ship flies by?