Ran into a strange situation at a store championship tourney over the weekend. Player had a Scum HWK with Cikatro Vizago crew and Cloaking Device. First turn cloaked, then used Vizago to swap the cloaking device with black market slicer tools. The issue is, he did not roll for the decloaking effect at the end of the turn or for the rest of the game, stating that the card was no longer in play so he did not have to.

Seems to me you would either have to decloak or at least roll each turn still? Player was able to take advantage of both cards throughout the game which does not seem right.

He played it correctly. Without the card in play, there's nothign to tell you to roll each round, and you can just hold the cloak token until you discard it. The penalties are that you can't attack whilst cloaked, and you can never get the cloak token BACK when you do choose to discard it.

He played it correctly, there has not been anything from FFG to say that it's an unintended combination. This was thought up a while back so I am confident they are aware of it but did not feel the need to FAQ it.

I HOPE that this card interaction will be addressed by FFG. I too, feel it isn't a fair way to play it. As it stands though, he is playing within the rules, despite the obvious abuse of a loophole.

Typically if it feels wrong or unfair, it generally is.

2 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

I HOPE that this card interaction will be addressed by FFG. I too, feel it isn't a fair way to play it. As it stands though, he is playing within the rules, despite the obvious abuse of a loophole.

Typically if it feels wrong or unfair, it generally is.

Scum and fair play? Thats new. I like it exactly like it is. It is not fair, but also not really strong either. Its a dirty scum trick. Nothing more or less.

What's the issue? Keep yourself unstressed and he has a useless ship flying around that can't attack unless he decloaks.

Even if you're stressed, he can only do at most one damage to you.

I fail to see what is wrong with this combo. It's pretty limiting when he cannot attack or use feedback array (or other similar effect in place of an attack).

It's a good combo on the Quadjumper, which would love to stay extra defensive whilst throwing you on rocks and drop bombs on you.

Also, I anticipate that FFG will err on the side of logic, RAI, if you will.

Obviously makes no sense to stay cloaked when you no longer have a cloaking device.

If I were a TO, id rule on the side of logic, understanding that FFG will fix it at some point, and all victories earned with any other ruling would be less meaningful once the ruling happens.

2 hours ago, GeneralBergfrühling said:

Scum and fair play? Thats new. I like it exactly like it is. It is not fair, but also not really strong either. Its a dirty scum trick. Nothing more or less.

Just run it with the Tug Boat of Awesome. 4 agility rollin, tractor beaming, reverse maneuvering, thug for life.

2 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

I fail to see what is wrong with this combo. It's pretty limiting when he cannot attack or use feedback array (or other similar effect in place of an attack).

Palob isn't useless just because he can't shoot. He is a focus stealing nuisance that has attanni Mindlink. I think this interaction is fine though. It's a HWK...

It is obviously an intended interaction. This is literally the only Cikatro combo* that actually makes sense (in standard play).

And if it ever becomes overpowered they can nerf it very easily by pretending it's not, but that's unlikely in the current situation.

*I'm talking about swapping out cloak in general, not neccessarily for the slicers.

6 hours ago, phild0 said:

It's a good combo on the Quadjumper, which would love to stay extra defensive whilst throwing you on rocks and drop bombs on you.

Also, I anticipate that FFG will err on the side of logic, RAI, if you will.

Obviously makes no sense to stay cloaked when you no longer have a cloaking device.

If I were a TO, id rule on the side of logic, understanding that FFG will fix it at some point, and all victories earned with any other ruling would be less meaningful once the ruling happens.

Personally I doubt FFG will fix it, not soon anyway. They are aware this exists (according to Kdubb in last season's Vassal League Questionable Rules Interactions list, there is an e-mail from Frank stating it works).

That nothing about it appeared in any FAQ makes me thing they either don't consider it a priority, or are happy with the way it works.

I completely agree being cloaked with no cloaking device makes no sense. Then again, it makes about as much sense as a guy swapping out your cloaking device mid-combat and then leaving.

I think that's not op. Just simply a funny and dirty trick. And you lose 2 red dices in attack, for doing some tricks. Just deal with the other ships and ignore the other one.

I don't have a problem with it. I think calling it an 'abuse' is very harsh. I don't think it's a loophole either.

Key points for me:

You never actually get the cloak action on your action bar. It's the card that allows the cloak action to take place.

If the card allowed you to take say, an evade action and you were sitting on the evade token when Cikatro swapped out the card, would you insist that the evade token be discarded? Or if it was a card that allowed you to take a target lock even though it wasn't on your action bar. Would you insist on discarding the TL once the card goes?

There's no requirement in the game to need to have the ability to perform action X to be allowed to have the corresponding token X. Whether it's cloak, focus, evade, or TL.

Do you smell it? all that stinky cheese from this combo (and other's like it) - it will have to be fixed soon.

9 hours ago, Elavion said:

It is obviously an intended interaction. This is literally the only Cikatro combo* that actually makes sense (in standard play).

And if it ever becomes overpowered they can nerf it very easily by pretending it's not, but that's unlikely in the current situation.

*I'm talking about swapping out cloak in general, not neccessarily for the slicers.

I've been wondering about putting CV on a jump in rauboats. Instead of using EM on the non-Boba one, you could use the crane and have the chance to swap it out for feedback given the matchup.

2 minutes ago, tortugatron said:

I've been wondering about putting CV on a jump in rauboats. Instead of using EM on the non-Boba one, you could use the crane and have the chance to swap it out for feedback given the matchup.

Swapping out Crane is a pretty solid idea actually. When you're down to 1v1, you swap it for Feedback or BMST so it's not being wasted. But it needs you to have a crew slto free so you're probably looking at Bossk being the only really useful location.

Swapping Bossk into Feedback Array once he has people on his tail could be very solid TBH

It's no stranger than the various methods the Empire has of feeding Target Lock tokens onto TIE Fighters... ships which have no target lock action, so presumably lack the equipment to use one. Ditto Quadjumpers.

A permacloaked HWK is pretty funny, but you really have to have confidence in the rest of your list to do work... or spend points on a turret for the HWK lest it be left the last ship on the table and helpless.

14 hours ago, phild0 said:

It's a good combo on the Quadjumper, which would love to stay extra defensive whilst throwing you on rocks and drop bombs on you.

Also, I anticipate that FFG will err on the side of logic, RAI, if you will.

Obviously makes no sense to stay cloaked when you no longer have a cloaking device.

If I were a TO, id rule on the side of logic, understanding that FFG will fix it at some point, and all victories earned with any other ruling would be less meaningful once the ruling happens.

I think I'd have an issue with someone running a sanctioned FFG tournament and not following FFG rules. There is nothing to support that this is even RAI, and you can't suggest that "no longer having a cloaking device" is rules logic -- many, many cards in this game follow game logic but, in any real sense, are absolutely ridiculous.

Boba crew flying over and spray-painting over titles is my favorite example.

This is a fun topic.

Anyways, sorta related, do you think a Constable Zuvio w/ Targeting Computer, VI, Targeting Sychronizer and the cloak combo has any merit as a support ship to get locks for his squad?

It's 27 points, and if you wanted him to maybe do damage you could add a bomb and swap into Scavenging Crane to get more use out of it. Or just leave him as is and Feedback people. Idk, just a thought I had.

*Did we ever get a ruling on if you can spend target locks from Sychronizer for just its normal effect?

9 minutes ago, Caboose2900 said:

This is a fun topic.

Anyways, sorta related, do you think a Constable Zuvio w/ Targeting Computer, VI, Targeting Sychronizer and the cloak combo has any merit as a support ship to get locks for his squad?

It's 27 points, and if you wanted him to maybe do damage you could add a bomb and swap into Scavenging Crane to get more use out of it. Or just leave him as is and Feedback people. Idk, just a thought I had.

Probably not tbh. Spending a third of your points on a ship that won't be shooting is questionable at best (unless the benefit it gives is extreme, like Palpatine used to be).

Maybe if you gave him Spacetug Tractor, but even then, it's a lot of cost for a ship that's delivering very little offence.

4 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Swapping out Crane is a pretty solid idea actually. When you're down to 1v1, you swap it for Feedback or BMST so it's not being wasted. But it needs you to have a crew slto free so you're probably looking at Bossk being the only really useful location.

Swapping Bossk into Feedback Array once he has people on his tail could be very solid TBH

Jumpmasters don't need their crew slot in a lot of builds. The standard boba rauboats don't have any crew on the plasma jump. Intel and 4-LOM are good crew for boats as well, but if you don't have he points for a 1 pt crew (like in boba rauboats), this is a good option if you think ships will be dying close to you (and they should since you become a bumpmaster typically after you shoot a torp).

18 hours ago, tortugatron said:

Jumpmasters don't need their crew slot in a lot of builds. The standard boba rauboats don't have any crew on the plasma jump. Intel and 4-LOM are good crew for boats as well, but if you don't have he points for a 1 pt crew (like in boba rauboats), this is a good option if you think ships will be dying close to you (and they should since you become a bumpmaster typically after you shoot a torp).

I'd personally argue that Cranes are probably better than EM in most circumstances, too - as long as you use each one once, they're the same, every time after that is totally free.

On 21/6/2017 at 0:42 AM, Force Majeure said:

I HOPE that this card interaction will be addressed by FFG. I too, feel it isn't a fair way to play it. As it stands though, he is playing within the rules, despite the obvious abuse of a loophole.

Typically if it feels wrong or unfair, it generally is.

Really? The HWK will never shoot for large part of the game. You're missing a TLT, it's an huge price.

23 hours ago, Caboose2900 said:

*Did we ever get a ruling on if you can spend target locks from Sychronizer for just its normal effect?

Yes, in the FAQ for the card, it describes what is considered a "game effect," which includes spending a target lock to re-roll dice during an attack.