[Mafia] Jedi Academy: Day 2
Gj CNinj. Your efforts are appreciated.
##vote Onid.
I am claiming to be a great player btw.
8 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:I dont see it.
Why are you bothered that we think you are town? Are you under pressure? Why should we care about you?
Reduction of the pool of possible candidates increases success rate.
Additionally, being considered scum greatly reduces my ability to impact the game positively.
You should care because I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it...people like me!
Wow! Crazy stuff has happened since I lasted checked in. So we were right about GNiPs, then a FOURTH PGO gets a second scum. I'm starting to see a trend here! Either we have a great coincidence of the scum faking roles that actually exist (a long shot it seems for this game) or something really crazy is going on...we haven't had any idea from the scum flips what their roles might have been? That's different from previous games.
Also, to reiterate and answer Tirion's subtle fingering of me; my schedule has changed a lot the last week, which similar to the last game keeps me from being able to check on stuff very often. Judging that as different from my first game and using that to try and finger me as scum is in itself simply scummy. And just for you Mad, I'll say "finger" one more time.
Also @Ardaedhel hasn't checked in for awhile, curious as to his reaction.
Anyway, it's super late and I get up early again tomorrow, should be finishing my weekend projects though. Be back tomorrow night.
22 minutes ago, JJs Juggernaut said:And just for you Mad, I'll say "finger" one more time.
I feel like you should at least buy me dinner first.
Didn't get a lot of time to keep up today, but yeah, I'm here. Overall, just trying to keep abreast of what's going on (**** yeah, two scum in the first day, SUCK IT SITH), and haven't had much chance to put a lot of thought into who else we might be looking at.
I'm also still kind of trying to wrap my head around the potential implications of my initial message (dat victory condition, among them).
I will say, it seems we're probably not dealing with a Rule of Two situation here--or else there's, like, a tanner or a serial killer or something floating around.
I'm very curious, we have one flip and three fairly reliable claims for at least four likely PGOs. That seems pretty strong, which makes me wonder how many Sith there might be.
Also, nailed those NIPs!
29 minutes ago, JJs Juggernaut said:answer Tirion's subtle fingering of me
Can never tell when he's gonna strike. @Tirion's sneaky.
*waggles eyebrows*
Well, it worked before...
## Vote @Tirion
The lack of communication compared to the rest of folks (minus the ones I know about having IRL issues) is the main reason. And yes, I re-read your voting history and it doesn't sit right for me either. I'm re-re-reading the posts though.
1 hour ago, moodswing5537 said:Well, it worked before...
## Vote @Tirion
The lack of communication compared to the rest of folks (minus the ones I know about having IRL issues) is the main reason. And yes, I re-read your voting history and it doesn't sit right for me either. I'm re-re-reading the posts though.
What doesn't sit right? I voted.... Then was told to unvote by Ard...... So I did.
I had Armada last night, work today and a birthday dinner tonight......
Votes on me are a wasted voting day.
People can vouch I've been mia a from most forms of social media for a couple days now.
And JJ I only casually went after you cause Biggs wanted it, I just can't tell that mustache no.
So what I'm getting @Tirion, is that you are doing things because the people tell you to, is that right?
11 hours ago, Ginkapo said:Gj CNinj. Your efforts are appreciated.
##vote Onid.
I am claiming to be a great player btw.
Fixed
On 2017-6-20 at 10:01 PM, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:From the moment the 'but the threat of lynching causes discussion' point was made a couple of games ago, I have had a thought:
DON'T SAY THAT AGAIN!
Saying 'I am not sure if we should lynch, but let's say we are to spark conversation' could potentially warn the scum/traitors/mafia/sith (collectively: the baddies) that they don't have to worry as much this day. Instead, from now on I suggest that all players enter into games with the knowledge that:
1) A no vote is possible
2) A no vote can potentially benefit the town, especially when there is an even number of players
3) The the threat of a lynch sparks conversation and may cause somebody to slip
4) That saying so in-thread is as bad as announcing one's plans out loud. It doesn't work. One is essentially telling the baddies that they might slide, so the investigations have less weight.I don't feel that it is self-contradicting to post this, given that this is all stuff that refers to the damage already done, but for future games, please bear the above points in mind.
On 2017-6-20 at 11:58 PM, Onidsen said:Nvm - apparently Gink has only one vote. In which case, pressure is worthwhile.
##unvote Biggs
##vote Ginkapo
On 2017-6-21 at 0:59 AM, JJs Juggernaut said:#role confirmed. Also DAMNIT truthi! You are ******* ending the day in the middle of the afternoon again....I'm literally going to miss the most important hours of every round. Some people have jobs that keep them from checking on forums in the afternoons....
Anyway, just getting caught up on everything now. I'll give thoughts soon, though the only thing that has stuck out to me currently as suspicious was GNiP's recommendation of no hammer day 1....we know how that has gone...
On 2017-6-21 at 3:04 AM, Madaghmire said:You know, it may even make more sense to push them, since they probably wont slip up as scum as easily.
##unvote moodswing
##vote Ginkapo
Thats three on Gink, I believe. I would encourage anyone else to give the man a chance to speak before voting. By best guess, -3 is scum turbo hammer range. Which would be pretty stupid at this phase in the game, but still.
On 2017-6-21 at 5:13 PM, JJs Juggernaut said:Sorry guys, like last game, I'm not going to be able to be quite as active. Lots of stuff going on for me IRL.
Currently, I still think GNiPs was a little suspicious, and like Biggs mentioned he did back off of his votes in a hurry. His defense is plausible, but still feels a little off.
Gink is up to his usual antics, but no defense is interesting. Not sure if we can really use his aggression as a confirmation of being scum, since although theme lines up, I feel like that's probably more just Gink's playstyle.
Visovics feels pretty confident in some of his assumptions; almost like he knows something we don't. Scum slip up?
On 2017-6-21 at 5:24 PM, Madaghmire said:Re: Visovics- I thought so too, but I re-read the initial post and towards the middle it mentions dark-side acolytes. I thought for a good minute we had a scum tell using terminology he shouldn't know. Was super excited. It doesn't mention Sith Acolytes, which is the exact terminology Vis used...but I mean, we're all star wars nerds and thats a pretty interchangable bit of jargon. He's on my radar now, but not a big time alarm.
Re: Ginkapo- He plays aggressive town. For all I know he plays aggressive scum too. I'm pretty sure he plays an aggressive "guy out for a morning stroll and a cup of tea". I repeat that I am starting to wonder if his win condition is to get the town to lynch him, as he has proferred no defense, but also he may just feel he doesn't need to yet, as simply saying "no I'm town" isn't super convincing anyway.
I'm gonna take a longer look at Slippy Nippy's posts.
On 2017-6-22 at 0:26 AM, Onidsen said:I hate the joke voting phenomenon. In my view, it is completely useless, and a distraction from our ability to catch scum. Knowing that a vote is a joke means that it can be safely ignored. I'm hesitant to accuse Ginkapo of actually being scum as a result of his advocacy for it, acknowledging that different metas and playstyles exist.
However, I put my vote on Gink for the purpose of observing his reactions under pressure. Two votes is where you have to start paying attention, especially if you're the leading candidate.
Nothing I've seen since makes me want to change it.
His defensive behavior is suggestive of a player with something to hide, and that's sufficient for a D1 hanging for me.
And Gink - this is certainly par for the course with me. I hang back, observing. I contribute, but I'm seldom the most prolific contributor. And sometimes I don't even post for *gasp* 24 hours! Heaven forbid! Don't think that I'm not paying attention. I'm watching most everything that goes on in this thread.
I'm not even going to respond to the insults. They stand to indict you well enough on their own.
On 2017-6-22 at 4:11 AM, Tirion said:You're voting for me based on my Belvoir in this thread compared to my last games. Well in my first game I wasn't super vocal until mad had died and then Ard bizarrely killed gink.
In my second game I was super vocal from the beginning and was mafia. So stating that based on my last games you are finding my behavior mafia makes no sense. Unless you are a sith and clearly know you can go after me.
##vote @moodswing5537
On 2017-6-22 at 8:33 AM, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:Actually, the review didn't last too long. Maybe half an hour. But it took me a while to get around to it, owing to unexpected life callings. As to why I haven't voted? Simple. I hadn't found anything particularly suspicious enough. . . see, the majority of the conversation that occurred was people commenting on you, and you daring them to vote you. I found that odd and unhelpful. I considered voting for Visovics, being the person who jumped on the 'Gink Train' after I specifically unvoted and said there was no such thing, which seemed like he wanted to bump you off yet missed the fact that it was a joke, and you, for offering no defense or even seeming to care that you were voted. I liked posts where I agree with the poster, and commented where I had anything to contribute. However as most of the conversation revolved around you, I hadn't much to comment on.
Dude, really? Ard is suspicious merely because he can't post often, after having told us he was busy, and Mad is suspicious because he defends Ard?
I disagree with your opinions, and as you seem to be 'driving the conversation' by keeping it about you, and thus kinda stifling most other conversation, I shall, ironically,
##vote Ginkapo
this time for real.
On 2017-6-22 at 5:39 PM, BiggsIRL said:##unvote
##vote GhostofNobodyInParticular
@GhostofNobodyInParticular - please tell me how you feel about @Madaghmire and @Onidsen. Particularly, what makes their votes feel trustworthy?
On 2017-6-22 at 5:47 PM, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:I have a feeling that they're votes are much like mine.
That is to say, that because Gink has repeatedly misinterpreted posts, often taking sentences out of context and complaining when people's action do not conform to his edits, he starts a 'bell' ringing in the back of my head. I know not what the reasoning was for either Mad or Onidsen, except so far as they have posted here. To that extent, I feel they are getting the same 'vibe' from Gink as I am.
I feel that they are likely town, as far as I can tell Day 1. Their votes are trustworthy in so far as they are thinking what I am thinking about Gink, see above.
On 2017-6-22 at 5:48 PM, Madaghmire said:I am really beginning to feel like gink wants to be lynched. I've said it a few times now, and I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe otherwise. Does idiot winning end the game, or just make it so he wins regardless of who else also wins?
On 2017-6-22 at 5:58 PM, Onidsen said:
That would be my assumption too.
Also, @BiggsIRL, mind explaining to me why you find GoNIP suspicious? Frankly, the whole unvote on Gink thing seems overblown to me. Of course, I might be biased by the fact that GoNIP feels the same way about Gink that I do.
Also, a thought that just occurred to me. Gink seems to be going out of his way to obscure the information we'll get from taking him out. By being so abrasive, and then doubling down on the behavior, it seems like he's pushing for "I'm annoyed with the way you're acting" votes on him, which dilutes the information significantly. Makes it much harder to get reads on the individual voting behavior. That's an indication of scum to me, or at least a player who's not invested in a village win - some flavor of neutral role.
On 2017-6-22 at 6:31 PM, Onidsen said:Hmm...all of that reads like something a good scum player would say too. As you said, you try to pay D1 the same way whether you're scum or not. Why would Gink be any different?
On 2017-6-22 at 6:43 PM, Onidsen said:Definitely twisting words. Try again.
What I actually said is that all of the things Biggs cites as reasons for a town read are reasonably things that an experienced scum would do D1 too.
And since you are experienced, it stands to reason that you wouldn't have a different way to play D1 if you were scum.
To be perfectly clear, my assertion is not that you and Biggs pay the same way, but that you are not likely to play D1 as scum differently than you would as town. And that is a characteristic that, if true, you share with Biggs.
On 2017-6-22 at 7:09 PM, Onidsen said:Straw man alert!
That's certainly not my reasoning. It's not even close to what I was trying to convey. Since I've apparently been incredibly unclear, let me try to be explicitly transparent here.
I suspect Gink for a number of reasons. Because I do, your town read on him was odd, so I asked for clarification. Every reason you offered for believing him town could just as easily be a play by an experienced scum, so your reasons fail to overcome my original reasons for suspecting him.
Is that clear enough, or do I just really need to go back and take remedial communications?
On 2017-6-22 at 7:58 PM, Onidsen said:My argument has never been that Gink is suspicious because he is doing things that a town player would do. Your argument has been that Gink is town because he has done things a good town player would do.
My argument is that such things are not dispositive, given that both a good town player and a good scum player would do the same things.
My reasons for suspecting Gink are separate from the argument you keep trying to put in my mouth. And honestly, I'm beginning to find your continued wilful misinterpretation of what I'm saying to be not only irritating, but suspicious.
JJ seemed to distance himself from GNips quite early. Cant decide if this was just good reading or sensible play. If you read back Ovin was trying hard to dig GNips out really early too.
Mad seems to be really really bothered by my play. Cant figure out how it could be town. Almost like he had already decided i was town. GNips got annoyed with my interactions with Mad. Pretty much the only other player GNips mentioned.
Odin read my play as defensive and spent the whole of D1 focused on me. Seems to be some similarity to Ovins play I think. Rattled by my very early vote on his mate?
Turion has changed his excuse from, I dont talk D1 to I was busy.
47 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:JJ seemed to distance himself from GNips quite early. Cant decide if this was just good reading or sensible play. If you read back Ovin was trying hard to dig GNips out really early too.
Mad seems to be really really bothered by my play. Cant figure out how it could be town. Almost like he had already decided i was town. GNips got annoyed with my interactions with Mad. Pretty much the only other player GNips mentioned.
Odin read my play as defensive and spent the whole of D1 focused on me. Seems to be some similarity to Ovins play I think. Rattled by my very early vote on his mate?
Turion has changed his excuse from, I dont talk D1 to I was busy.
I think my main concern about these players is that the only participation we get out of tirion is after I vote him here. I get being busy, but come back and provide some reasons you think we should vote other people. Just saying "I'm playing, but not showing up to contribute so dont vote me" does nothing to help your case.
7 hours ago, Tirion said:What doesn't sit right? I voted.... Then was told to unvote by Ard...... So I did.
I had Armada last night, work today and a birthday dinner tonight......
Votes on me are a wasted voting day.
And I agree with @Visovics, following, especially another less active player, is dangerously scummy behavior.
So we have Tirion saying that he is following what other players say, risky if he ends up following Sith, and Mad who isn't even on the suspects but desperately tried to include himself in the Town list.
I'm inclined to go for Tirion, he either is Sith, or he will hurt the game by sticking with one and disrupting the vote.
Before people complain, I will cast my vote once we are in a more active time and discussion flows.
36 minutes ago, Visovics said:So we have Tirion saying that he is following what other players say, risky if he ends up following Sith, and Mad who isn't even on the suspects but desperately tried to include himself in the Town list.
I'm inclined to go for Tirion, he either is Sith, or he will hurt the game by sticking with one and disrupting the vote.
Before people complain, I will cast my vote once we are in a more active time and discussion flows.
Not desperate, exasperated.
I could see voting Tirion, although I haven't been able to get any kind of read on him.
I strongly believe the best way to deal with silent players is with investigations rather than votes. Slightly conflicted this game as I am not particularly confident we have investigations.
Vis, Biggs, Gink are untouchable. Only way this changes is if they are the only three left alive.
I'm still 50/50 on Oni, because I still really don't like that question, but I dont think we should vote him because it does betray knowledge he otherwise shouldn't have. If it wasn't just a fishing expedition.
Moodswing reads town to me.
JJ and Tirion are where we should be looking imo.
Just now, Ginkapo said:I strongly believe the best way to deal with silent players is with investigations rather than votes. Slightly conflicted this game as I am not particularly confident we have investigations.
Me too, but the part that gets me is that when his defense is that he did what other players told him to do, which can
1-Be risky if he ends up following the lead of a Sith
2-Be an attempt to deflect to other players if he is Sith
And there we go bad english, there's an extra when in the middle of the sentence... that rule of no edit really goes against me sometimes
1 minute ago, Madaghmire said:Vis, Biggs, Gink are untouchable. Only way this changes is if they are the only three left alive.
I'm still 50/50 on Oni, because I still really don't like that question, but I dont think we should vote him because it does betray knowledge he otherwise shouldn't have. If it wasn't just a fishing expedition.
Moodswing reads town to me.
JJ and Tirion are where we should be looking imo.
And I guess ard, but his interview is today i think so hoping we start to see more from him.
3 hours ago, Ginkapo said:JJ seemed to distance himself from GNips quite early. Cant decide if this was just good reading or sensible play. If you read back Ovin was trying hard to dig GNips out really early too.
Mad seems to be really really bothered by my play. Cant figure out how it could be town. Almost like he had already decided i was town. GNips got annoyed with my interactions with Mad. Pretty much the only other player GNips mentioned.
Odin read my play as defensive and spent the whole of D1 focused on me. Seems to be some similarity to Ovins play I think. Rattled by my very early vote on his mate?
Turion has changed his excuse from, I dont talk D1 to I was busy.
Do we speak the same language? That is not what I said.