While I appreciate the confidence in me Biggs, Gink isn't reading all that townie to me either. At first I chalked it up to his playstyle, but he is getting increasingly suspicious. I'm going to be gone until a few hours before the deadline, so I'll avoid switching my vote now to keep the turbo hammer from being available.
However, I do need some time to think through if I'm more worried about GNiPs or Gink. ##Unvote
I don't know, but "he's playing like town would play, only scum would be that smart" doesn't strike me as particularly good reasoning.
1 minute ago, BiggsIRL said:I don't know, but "he's playing like town would play, only scum would be that smart" doesn't strike me as particularly good reasoning.
My reasoning at this point is a misrepresentation of comments I made.
Since I know that I am town (literally the only hard fact I have to work with) then a deliberate misrepresentation of town comments reads scum.
How do I know you are town. Extend your logic a bit further. Irrelevant what you know. What do I know?
5 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:How do I know you are town. Extend your logic a bit further. Irrelevant what you know. What do I know?
Well, I'm assuming you know I'm town by process of elimination.
4 minutes ago, BiggsIRL said:I don't know, but "he's playing like town would play, only scum would be that smart" doesn't strike me as particularly good reasoning.
Straw man alert!
That's certainly not my reasoning. It's not even close to what I was trying to convey. Since I've apparently been incredibly unclear, let me try to be explicitly transparent here.
I suspect Gink for a number of reasons. Because I do, your town read on him was odd, so I asked for clarification. Every reason you offered for believing him town could just as easily be a play by an experienced scum, so your reasons fail to overcome my original reasons for suspecting him.
Is that clear enough, or do I just really need to go back and take remedial communications?
You're right, I was simplifying the argument some.
- Gink is doing things that a good Vanilla Town would do (motivating players to post, refusing to claim early, sticking his neck out when he gets heat)
- Gink is a good player.
- It is possible that good players could be scum and will act like Town to throw us off their scent.
- Therefor Gink is scum.
Your conclusion does not follow from the prepositions. It is far from certainty that he is scum, and merely suggests that he could be. In fact, those prepositions tell us NOTHING about Gink's allegiance or anyone's allegiance.
Honestly, I'm concerned that the biggest questions being asked of me have switched from "Why are you voting for Ghost" to "Why aren't you onboard the Gink train?"
Frankly, I don't think that Gink has done anything particularly scummy, and I'm more inclined to think we'll randomly hit scum by looking at the people advocating for votes on him today.
2 minutes ago, BiggsIRL said:You're right, I was simplifying the argument some.
- Gink is doing things that a good Vanilla Town would do (motivating players to post, refusing to claim early, sticking his neck out when he gets heat)
- Gink is a good player.
- It is possible that good players could be scum and will act like Town to throw us off their scent.
- Therefor Gink is scum.
Your conclusion does not follow from the prepositions. It is far from certainty that he is scum, and merely suggests that he could be. In fact, those prepositions tell us NOTHING about Gink's allegiance or anyone's allegiance.
Honestly, I'm concerned that the biggest questions being asked of me have switched from "Why are you voting for Ghost" to "Why aren't you onboard the Gink train?"
Frankly, I don't think that Gink has done anything particularly scummy, and I'm more inclined to think we'll randomly hit scum by looking at the people advocating for votes on him today.
Obviously I need remedial communication classes...
5 minutes ago, BiggsIRL said:You're right, I was simplifying the argument some.
- Gink is doing things that a good Vanilla Town would do (motivating players to post, refusing to claim early, sticking his neck out when he gets heat)
- Gink is a good player.
- It is possible that good players could be scum and will act like Town to throw us off their scent.
- Therefor Gink is scum.
Your conclusion does not follow from the prepositions. It is far from certainty that he is scum, and merely suggests that he could be. In fact, those prepositions tell us NOTHING about Gink's allegiance or anyone's allegiance.
Honestly, I'm concerned that the biggest questions being asked of me have switched from "Why are you voting for Ghost" to "Why aren't you onboard the Gink train?"
Frankly, I don't think that Gink has done anything particularly scummy, and I'm more inclined to think we'll randomly hit scum by looking at the people advocating for votes on him today.
And my point?
Did we get an extension?
We did. I forget the time tho.
@Truthiness vote/time check please
My argument has never been that Gink is suspicious because he is doing things that a town player would do. Your argument has been that Gink is town because he has done things a good town player would do.
My argument is that such things are not dispositive, given that both a good town player and a good scum player would do the same things.
My reasons for suspecting Gink are separate from the argument you keep trying to put in my mouth. And honestly, I'm beginning to find your continued wilful misinterpretation of what I'm saying to be not only irritating, but suspicious.
10 minutes ago, BiggsIRL said:You're right, I was simplifying the argument some.
- Gink is doing things that a good Vanilla Town would do (motivating players to post, refusing to claim early, sticking his neck out when he gets heat)
- Gink is a good player.
- It is possible that good players could be scum and will act like Town to throw us off their scent.
- Therefor Gink is scum.
Your conclusion does not follow from the prepositions. It is far from certainty that he is scum, and merely suggests that he could be. In fact, those prepositions tell us NOTHING about Gink's allegiance or anyone's allegiance.
Honestly, I'm concerned that the biggest questions being asked of me have switched from "Why are you voting for Ghost" to "Why aren't you onboard the Gink train?"
Frankly, I don't think that Gink has done anything particularly scummy, and I'm more inclined to think we'll randomly hit scum by looking at the people advocating for votes on him today.
My above was in further response to this post.
6 hours remaining
7 to hammer
The Living:
@Ginkapo (4) Onisden, Madaghmire, Ovinomanc3r, GNiP
@GhostofNobodyInParticular (4) Ginkapo, JJ, Ard, Biggs
@moodswing5537 (1) Tirion
@Tirion (1) moodswing
The Dead
19 hours ago, Onidsen said:His defensive behavior is suggestive of a player with something to hide, and that's sufficient for a D1 hanging for me.
We seem to have a completely different read here.
Please, post examples of @Ginkapo being defensive in a way that suggests something to hide. You voted him not out of suspicion, but to see his reaction under pressure.
19 hours ago, Onidsen said:However, I put my vote on Gink for the purpose of observing his reactions under pressure. Two votes is where you have to start paying attention, especially if you're the leading candidate.
Please, point me to the post he made between your vote and the quote above where he is hiding something. Quote the post or posts please. I want to see your line of reasoning. I don't doubt that he is being abrasive as hell, but where is he hiding something?
@Truthiness, I think JJ unvoted in his last post....
We are both at L-3 with six hours to go. I believe its time we claimed.
I am about to walk home then will claim. Its my evening so I wont be awake at deadline.
2 minutes ago, Onidsen said:My argument has never been that Gink is suspicious because he is doing things that a town player would do. Your argument has been that Gink is town because he has done things a good town player would do.
My argument is that such things are not dispositive, given that both a good town player and a good scum player would do the same things.
My reasons for suspecting Gink are separate from the argument you keep trying to put in my mouth. And honestly, I'm beginning to find your continued wilful misinterpretation of what I'm saying to be not only irritating, but suspicious.
And I will add that if you feel like I am putting words in your mouth it is not because I quoted you or said that "This is what @Onidsen is doing". Because it is an argument that many players voting for or "suspicious" of Gink are making to counter my Town read. If you feel like it was directed at you then it is because YOU feel that way.
3 minutes ago, BiggsIRL said:And I will add that if you feel like I am putting words in your mouth it is not because I quoted you or said that "This is what @Onidsen is doing". Because it is an argument that many players voting for or "suspicious" of Gink are making to counter my Town read. If you feel like it was directed at you then it is because YOU feel that way.
My concerns about his misrepresentations of my comments remain unaddressed. You asked for a specific example, I posted it and brought it up a second time.
Just now, Ginkapo said:We are both at L-3 with six hours to go. I believe its time we claimed.
I am about to walk home then will claim. Its my evening so I wont be awake at deadline.
Ghost is at -4, JJ unvoted.
Just now, Madaghmire said:My concerns about his misrepresentations of my comments remain unaddressed. You asked for a specific example, I posted it and brought it up a second time.
I'm sorry. Let me go back and read your posts.
Also why would anyone claim at -3 gods the biggest reason I was reading @Ginkapo as town was that you didn't seem to care you were getting voted.
5 minutes ago, BiggsIRL said:And I will add that if you feel like I am putting words in your mouth it is not because I quoted you or said that "This is what @Onidsen is doing". Because it is an argument that many players voting for or "suspicious" of Gink are making to counter my Town read. If you feel like it was directed at you then it is because YOU feel that way.
In the process of re-reading every comment Gink has posted in this thread to answer your question above.
However, to respond to this:
Between the time you posted the reasons for your town read and the time you posted this:
1 hour ago, BiggsIRL said:I don't know, but "he's playing like town would play, only scum would be that smart" doesn't strike me as particularly good reasoning.
I was the only person to respond to your arguments. Who else is making the argument? Specific quoted examples please, or it doesn't count.
1 minute ago, BiggsIRL said:Also why would anyone claim at -3 gods the biggest reason I was reading @Ginkapo as town was that you didn't seem to care you were getting voted.
He's going to be asleep at deadline. There are at least two players who have said they are withholding votes to avoid a turbo lynch. (JJ, Vis) He can't sit back much longer.