Also last few days have shown that the ones out of touch with the game are imperial players (and mostly purist ones at that) because even if their heavy bombers are not top of the line, their heavy fighters are still by far the absolute best (even post-nerf). Even if 3 primary alone isn't terrifying, statline 3/3/3/3 is.

EDIT: Not trying to pick a fight. Apologies in beforehand.

39 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

* note to people wanting reasons to rag on scum: Rebel heavy bomber gets a turret and a crew slot. Imperial heavy bomber gets a systems slot and a repositioning action that doesn't prevent it attacking. Scum heavy bomber gets.....all four. Plus a PS3 generic with an elite talent and a tenth hit point compared to the nine of the other two.

Where do you see in scurrg ship a reposition action that doesn't prevent attack? also, Havoc title lets you choose between crew slot and system slot.

I like the Havoc title, Savaged astromechs are all amazing, even just the unique. But in Y-Wing Unhinged astromech is simply too good, and in J5K is incredibly. I wanted to see some Unhinged Astromechs outside an all-mighty and super OP ship.

I think Scurrg is a good ship without being OP and funny to play with. It can bring to life certain ships and cards ("Genius" savaged astromech, Emon Azzamen or Tie Punisher) And is Scum and Rebel!

14 minutes ago, Quadjumper King said:

Rebels also can use it to gain access to the scum astromech (salvaged astromech) slot don't they? Even if it's in a limited capacity. I'll be interested to see if anyone can fully utilise that - _ -

The limited capacity was kind of inevitable - given the dial (red 3 turns, speed 3 talon rolls) and the potential for high pilot skill and inbuilt access to barrel roll, the ship categorically could not be allowed cheap access to the unhinged astromech.

It's pretty good anyway. R5-D9 is just a general annoyancebot, but I suspect "Genius" is the real star - giving Nym more control over where he drops a bomb (especially since where he drops it and when it goes off can be two different things). R4-B11 is probably worth a look on a Scurrg missileboat, though - picking up a supporting target lock from Shara Bey or a Targeting Synchroniser T-70 isn't that hard, and being able to force green die rerolls when lobbing missiles downrange may be extremely satisfying.

Just now, Arthur_McGuire said:

Also last few days have shown that the ones out of touch with the game are imperial players (and mostly purist ones at that) because even if their heavy bombers are not top of the line, their heavy fighters are still by far the absolute best (even post-nerf). Even if 3 primary alone isn't terrifying, statline 3/3/3/3 is.

As an imperial player three green die isn't half bad, the main cause of imperial "shame" (?!) is that they have no "easy" gimmicks that garauntee instant damage or are incredibly point efficient.

To me it seems that because they are harder to play those who won't put effort in are just pulling out and giving up.

Not to say they aren't in need of some buff (recent tournaments price as much) but the idea that they are now "unplayable" is a far cry from the truth (at least in my opinion). I know people hat hearing this argument but in my local meta imperial Aces are still the top dogs (we don't have a single guy that own all the expansions on their own though so the majority of the group only buy stuff they like, not what's meta) and though this essentially proves nothing it's worth noting that they are playable.

New players feel locked out by the fact that they are perceived as being tougher to play and have no easy gimmick. Anything worth doing takes effort though so I'll keep flying.

Long live the eternal empire.

27 minutes ago, Erion_Fett said:

Where do you see in scurrg ship a reposition action that doesn't prevent attack? also, Havoc title lets you choose between crew slot and system slot.

I like the Havoc title, Savaged astromechs are all amazing, even just the unique. But in Y-Wing Unhinged astromech is simply too good, and in J5K is incredibly. I wanted to see some Unhinged Astromechs outside an all-mighty and super OP ship.

I think Scurrg is a good ship without being OP and funny to play with. It can bring to life certain ships and cards ("Genius" savaged astromech, Emon Azzamen or Tie Punisher) And is Scum and Rebel!

Barrel Roll (like the punisher's boost) rather than the K-wing's SLAM.

I'd like to see the unhinged on other ships, too. But whilst I wouldn't mind it making a red speed 3 turn green (that's what it does on the Y-wing and that's not that bad) making a talon roll green is a bit much. If they'd made the talon rolls speed 2, it wouldn't have been too bad.

4 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Barrel Roll (like the punisher's boost) rather than the K-wing's SLAM.

I'd like to see the unhinged on other ships, too. But whilst I wouldn't mind it making a red speed 3 turn green (that's what it does on the Y-wing and that's not that bad) making a talon roll green is a bit much. If they'd made the talon rolls speed 2, it wouldn't have been too bad.

The scurrg cannot take the Unhinged Astromech because it isn't unique. (That's why Havoc only lets you equip unique Unhinged Astromech Upgrade Cards, I suppose). But you can take Genius, R4-B11, or R5-P8, which all three are great upgrades. And the new one it's coming in the pack.

And I see your point with the barrel roll, but 3 red dices without any mod is not a big threat, I think, so I think you will spend more time target locking (due to Synced Turret) or focusing rather tan barrel roll.

if youre using sync turret you are only spending 1 action on a targetlock until you switch targets
It requires a targetlock, it doesnt spend it.

Quite frankly i wish they just faq'd unhinged to "Cannot change the difficulty of kturns, sloops, or t-rolls" rather than impose a unique-only restriction, but then again there might be some other crazy combo with generic salvaged mechs.

8 hours ago, Arthur_McGuire said:

Not trying to pick a fight. Apologies in beforehand

Apology accepted Captain Needa.

29 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

Apology accepted Captain Needa.

Very nice @Sasajak , very nice.

This is a really solid, cheap ship. Better than the Punisher by far, equal to the K-Wing minus the Slam, and the Rebels get another amazing bomber. I don't get the salt over it's primary weapon? What?? The 3 attack primary is great and I see a bunch of guys wanting the TLT on these dogs anyway. The unlimited bombs are going to be another AMAZINGLY POWERFUL Ace deterrent and I think that is the biggest beef --albeit assumption before on the mat beef-- I have with this Expansion.

Yes, Scum keeps on getting the good stuff, even when they have most all of the good stuff. But I don't care, I fly the stupid looking things when I'm needing a win.

Yes, Scum gets their Sabine when Sabine is still the super cheap, super usable, super powerful card of the game. But hey, Scum needs more.

Yes, the best ship of the Expansion is actually Rebel, and they can now be THE bombing faction. Period.

Yes, the Punisher is mildly better, but the competition get's the better too, so it still sucks in comparison to the other factions; this was NO fix to the Punisher.

And yes, struggling Imperial Aces will now struggle all the more, but h***, they don't get out of the foam at the LGS now anyway. Maybe we should all put them on a shelf for display....right?

Salt rant over....didn't really know I had it in me. Now where's my tea?

If anything, people should be happy the H-6 has 3 ATK... and not 4. The Phantom in EaW (and in other FFG materials) has 5 primary lasers which is probably why it jumped to 4 ATK first. Well, in it's source material the Scurrg packs 6 forward lasers. But giving Scum a 4 primary ship with their cheap attack mod crew would probably cause some concern - and would distract from the other roles of the ship as a heavy bomber or turret carrier.

In every minis game with "sides" or "factions" you will have purists. We see this to the extreme in this game with players who not only choose a side, choose a play style, and some even choose an era! This is fact in minis games, not just this one.

Amongst miniatures gamers there are also preferred play styles. In Xwing the flavor also matches fluff and creares even more extremism because of it.

Xwing started as 2 factions: one cobbled and recognizable and sturdy with squad cohesion and the other faceless and uniform and advanced/efficient but paper thin even enmasse. The first was forgiving and "easy" the second was ruthless when flown well and near invincible when flown well and there was a skill discrepancy. In most games, minis or not, there are players drawn strongly to that style- crush the Newbie before they learn the game. The fact that this matches fluff in our game contributes to that extremism again.

---

Me, I am an Imperial Purist for the most part. Most of my xwing was wave 1-4 when this style dominated (before phantoms and turrets took over). I am this way because, mostly, $$$. It's a cheap minis game but not a cheap game by itself. I also enjoy winning by outskilling and losing drastically when bad luck strikes. That's why I fly empire. That and 6-8 ship swarms are wonderful.

Again, speaking for myself, the game became a lot less fun when the skills I learned to succeed at the game started bleeding out: high PS phantom repositioning and turret prevelance and swarm is on the wane. Now take away technical superiority, bombs, and acing and give it to other factions in BETTER ways than I have it and I'm frustrated. Actually take 2 of the original lynchpin ships (FS and the Tie Fighter) and give it to the other factions and in more interesting and viable ways and wowee... why would a purist be frustrated?

---

So that got long. That got ranty. I'm sure most posters will just Argue that the "phantom ruined game" and "it takes skill to fly turrets" and "your time will come again". But games create purists for many reasons. Most of us are reasonable and thoughtful and proud and probably loud. That doesn't invalidate how we feel about it. And if you don't feel good about Star Wars you're probably leaving the game or at least you should probably leave this game (another issue: how much of Star Wars is in this game anymore?).

23 minutes ago, Rakky Wistol said:

(another issue: how much of Star Wars is in this game anymore?).

100%

4 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

100%

Most of us see it that way. Since I was discussing purists, it was worth mentioning. I am of the same mind.

38 minutes ago, Rakky Wistol said:

another issue: how much of Star Wars is in this game anymore?

At my LGS, maybe about 10% actual core Star Wars (like your average Star Wars Movie fan recognizes)

15 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

100%

This, in pint games with friends; because we love Star Wars, not Mouse cartoons.....no offense to those in the cartoon and odd book knock off realm....we're clear minded gamers (before the second pint), perhaps a bit simple minded to some; but we enjoy in this universe what we loved as kids and tend to lean that way.

10 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

* note to people wanting reasons to rag on scum: Rebel heavy bomber gets a turret and a crew slot. Imperial heavy bomber gets a systems slot and a repositioning action that doesn't prevent it attacking. Scum heavy bomber gets.....all four. Plus a PS3 generic with an elite talent and a tenth hit point compared to the nine of the other two.

Scurrg has a turret slot, but rebels have a PWT on top of the slot. Imperials get the repositioning ation. Scum hsa crew, or astro + system on one without the crew. And the punisher can get an extra agility.

7 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

but we enjoy in this universe what we loved as kids and tend to lean that way.

I mean, I think that's fine - that's an okay quality for everyone. So long as (at least in our lucid periods) we remember that Star Wars is not a universal bracket.

E-Wings (as a concept) are about a year older than I am. I was in the prime age range when TPM came out to completely enjoy that movie (even if as an adult I can compare it to other things and go "Well, George I think you missed a few beat there"). I was a huge reader as a kid, and I'm pretty sure I own a copy of the Black Fleet Crisis trilogy, so I know what K-Wings are. And I read the hell out of every new star wars novel series in Legends as it came out, and read all sorts of classic works (I reread the X-Wing series like twice a year). The star wars games I played most as a kid were Starfighter, the original Battlefront and Bounty Hunter. It was only later in my late teens that Steam and a decent computer let me go back in time and play some of the titles I'd missed like Dark Forces/Jedi Knight, KoToR, etc. Just yesterday, I played the PS4 port of Jedi Starfighter, and played some Havoc missions. To me, all that stuff is star wars - and at times X-Wing is a love letter to a lot of it (If you're nostalgic for Star Wars: Galaxies I bet you love the game).

And I know there are young, new fans out there - kids right in the bracket for the The Clone Wars, Rebels, Force Awakens - etc. They're gonna play LEGO star wars, and fun colorful mobile games for their experiences, and read works like Lost Stars. They're gonna have a completely different snap shot of what is all "Star Wars" to them from me, and that's great and fine.

40 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Scurrg has a turret slot, but rebels have a PWT on top of the slot. Imperials get the repositioning ation. Scum hsa crew, or astro + system on one without the crew. And the punisher can get an extra agility.

Yeah, this , woohoo! But let's be honest, the Empire still lags way behind both factions now on bombers (ship and its stats) and on bombing (ability to do damage with abilities, crew and mods).

44 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Scurrg has a turret slot, but rebels have a PWT on top of the slot. Imperials get the repositioning ation. Scum hsa crew, or astro + system on one without the crew. And the punisher can get an extra agility.

I like the irony of having a re-positioning action. Without an EPT, (something the scurrg gets for no reason whatsoever), it can be only used if the ship is dropping reveal bombs. Any ordnance or action bomb just robs the punisher from one of it's actions. I'd rather have it be 4 points cheaper.

the poor punisher was utterly screwed from the get go

its pricing and abilities made 0 goddamn sense when compared to the K of the same exact wave

the SCURGG is basically the punisher done not-stupidly, with their deathrain-like pilots perhaps slated for use because the platform isn't utter shite

Well, assuming this doesn't actually make punishers (other than maybe Punisher Mine Fortress) more popular there's always Imperial Aces or Epic III to give you some more pilots and hopefully a "fix" title.

Is it better for the Punisher to shed slots, stats or maneuvers to reduce points or get new utility for 0 points?

more durability imo to fit the role of an interdictor that apparently bumrushes fortifications and entrenched positions that Star Destroyers cannot reach themselves

23 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

the poor punisher was utterly screwed from the get go

its pricing and abilities made 0 goddamn sense when compared to the K of the same exact wave

the SCURGG is basically the punisher done not-stupidly, with their deathrain-like pilots perhaps slated for use because the platform isn't utter shite

This.

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

the poor punisher was utterly screwed from the get go

its pricing and abilities made 0 goddamn sense when compared to the K of the same exact wave

the SCURGG is basically the punisher done not-stupidly, with their deathrain-like pilots perhaps slated for use because the platform isn't utter shite

How do ya think Rebels felt with the E-Wing? Went from Holy **** an E-Wing to meh..... pretty quickly when we saw the price point, Corran was good till Ill Show you the Dark Side came up.

19 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:

****, my plans have been revealed. I must destroy some computer consoles to chill my nerves!

Just make sure that you let your Stormtroopers know that you need some "me time" before you start.