15 minutes ago, Rakky Wistol said:

I'm not even sure he'll take them. He's already taking EM so for a point more to threaten and punch harder it's not great. Sure he'll only get 3-4 dice twice but, again, that's better than the 2.34 dice or whatever UG gets you.

i mean if you are flying deathrain for missiles or torpedoes i say you are flying him wrong. throw bomblet generator on him and the unguided rockets, add in lwf and collision detector, and he is at 34 points. reveal move drop bomb barrel roll move take focus and fire your rockets that can't be modified by anything but your focus.

Deathrain wants unguided, unless you pre-dial boosted for a better bomb drop hes going to be focusing anyway. He wants to be close enough to use bombs, which means no ordnance except Prockets (LOL) and Unguided. Its highly likely he will get shots with Unguided quite a few times after dropping bombs.
True, his main gun is a 3 attack if hes too close for normal ordnance, but then you need a targetlock, which means you cant just shoot whoever you happen to have a shot on after doing your bomb thing. I tried to get him to work for a long time and i noticed that really quick that if you want his ability, dont even bother with missiles/torps because majority of the time he wont get them and he usually doesnt survive very long if you try too hard to get them (admittedly this was pre-LWF)

On 6/19/2017 at 11:42 AM, Flaren48 said:

They still have a maximum of attack dice like proton rockets

Which is why I find them less impressive than a proton rockets. Cruise missiles take so much longer to set up and you have to be doing a 4 or 5 straight to get that 5 dice attack. The range 2-3 makes it more of a lance than anything else.

Still for TIE bombers and even punishers doing a 5 or 4 K-turn then launching one off would be a neat trick. But that exposes you to too much fire.

3 hours ago, smccaughan said:

i mean if you are flying deathrain for missiles or torpedoes i say you are flying him wrong. throw bomblet generator on him and the unguided rockets, add in lwf and collision detector, and he is at 34 points. reveal move drop bomb barrel roll move take focus and fire your rockets that can't be modified by anything but your focus.

No one is. But for 3pts more you double your dice and maybe twice with EM.

If you're going bomblet sure UR works; if you're not the point more gets you a bigger gun. I haven't proxied bomblet enough yet but, for me, connors and clusters and prox mines were the way to go. I'm not sure that dropping bomblets out the front is as good since they don't auto go off.

Are these any good Punisher builds? Like... good. Like at least Tier2 competitive.

4 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Are these any good Punisher builds? Like... good. Like at least Tier2 competitive.

Redline is more competitive than people give him credit for, even pre-Wave 11.

I suspect the 31-point Deathrain (Unguided Rockets, Bomblet Generator, Long Range Scanners, Collision Detector) or something similar with only a few more points spent will be competitive at the local tourney level.

6 minutes ago, EdgeOfDreams said:

Redline is more competitive than people give him credit for, even pre-Wave 11.

I suspect the 31-point Deathrain (Unguided Rockets, Bomblet Generator, Long Range Scanners, Collision Detector) or something similar with only a few more points spent will be competitive at the local tourney level.

Build???

And you should qualify/explain your first sentence. That's not what data suggests nor what many people's experiences suggest. My meta is hyper competitive 2 jump, 3 jumps torp, Fenn + 2 torp-scouts, paratanni/old man Fenn tanni.

8 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Build???

And you should qualify/explain your first sentence. That's not what data suggests nor what many people's experiences suggest. My meta is hyper competitive 2 jump, 3 jumps torp, Fenn + 2 torp-scouts, paratanni/old man Fenn tanni.

FCS, Extras, Protons, Clusters, Guidance Chips, or something similar to that. A friend of mine flies Redline that way and cleans up in casual games, at least.

I'm not saying Redline is gonna win any big tournaments. I just think he's significantly better than the tier of unplayable crud most players like to lump him in with.

1 minute ago, EdgeOfDreams said:

FCS, Extras, Protons, Clusters, Guidance Chips, or something similar to that. A friend of mine flies Redline that way and cleans up in casual games, at least.

I'm not saying Redline is gonna win any big tournaments. I just think he's significantly better than the tier of unplayable crud most players like to lump him in with.

Casual clean up definitely doesn't sound like competitive. Also this has obvious weaknesses to aces

Also most people argue for deathrain being the strongest punisher. As he can make a nasty 34 build. and the new bomblets really help for modern builds.

(Conner net seismics em choice of systems and lrs )

3 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Which is why I find them less impressive than a proton rockets. Cruise missiles take so much longer to set up and you have to be doing a 4 or 5 straight to get that 5 dice attack. The range 2-3 makes it more of a lance than anything else.

Still for TIE bombers and even punishers doing a 5 or 4 K-turn then launching one off would be a neat trick. But that exposes you to too much fire.

The reason they are better than prockets is that at range one most ships have 4 attack dice anyways and dont need ordinance. A Range 2 to 3 target is a lot easier to aquire than a range one target as well.

51 minutes ago, TBot said:

The reason they are better than prockets is that at range one most ships have 4 attack dice anyways and dont need ordinance. A Range 2 to 3 target is a lot easier to aquire than a range one target as well.

And even if you do a speed-3 maneuver, a 4-die missile for 3 points that lets you keep your target lock is nothing to sneeze at. These things have probably completely displaced Concussion Missiles.

Plus, Prockets are really only desirable on 3-agility ships, and maybe 2-agility ships with a base 2-attack. Meanwhile, just about everyone with a Missile slot can get a lot out of Cruise Missiles.

I might still take Prockets on certain knife-fighting aces like Jake, but Cruise Missiles are going to be better on at least 90% of the pilots that can take them.

Has anyone thought of bossk with expertise any gc chips yet ?

3 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Are these any good Punisher builds? Like... good. Like at least Tier2 competitive.

I think Deathrain with bomblet generator and unguided rockets will at least be good enough to try out competitively. At least as far as Imperials are concerned he's worth trying out.

7 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Are these any good Punisher builds? Like... good. Like at least Tier2 competitive.

In my humble opinion, the closest thing to a competitive punisher build currently is a generic w/ LWF, acc corrector, and bomblet generator. Still probably a long way away though from tier 2.

4 hours ago, markte said:

Has anyone thought of bossk with expertise any gc chips yet ?

Expertise is not a good idea, you need to stop often, and not worry about flying over that debris to get the shot.

GC with missiles, yeah, though I prefer Mangler myself.

3 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

I think Deathrain with bomblet generator and unguided rockets will at least be good enough to try out competitively. At least as far as Imperials are concerned he's worth trying out.

I am having a really rough time buying into unguided rockets. Time will tell, but 3 dice behind 1 focus is honestly probably giving you the same value as 2 auto hits, and those auto hits with acc corrector don't need a focus to fire.

but, honestly, not sure either option can break through the defenses we see in the game now.

27 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

I am having a really rough time buying into unguided rockets. Time will tell, but 3 dice behind 1 focus is honestly probably giving you the same value as 2 auto hits, and those auto hits with acc corrector don't need a focus to fire.

but, honestly, not sure either option can break through the defenses we see in the game now.

They also don't help the punisher excel as an ordnance platform which is what it's supposed to be. It's basically giving a conditional 3 die primary. Punishers need either better survivability, the ability to dual fire, or a title providing discounted ordnance. This way the punisher either has a chance to fire all its ordnance or they load up for cheap enough that it doesn't care.

So I got to try out cruise missile tonight in 2 games on vassal.

And somehow I didn't get them off either game. Died both times before getting it off which almost never happens, the one time especially was a major fluke.

I think getting the full 5 dice off is gonna be pretty hard unless you're lucky enough to have some joust you head on or close to it. But 4 dice is pretty doable for a point cheaper than concussion or 2 points cheaper than homing.

So for now I "think" it's the better choice in my list, but so far the results say otherwise.

Fwiw testing Deathrain doesn't actually want UGR. He spend actions boosting often enough to make them a waste. AdvSens, Bomblet, LWF is all he needs.

oh wow, did deadeye rhymer just become a thing?

14 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Fwiw testing Deathrain doesn't actually want UGR. He spend actions boosting often enough to make them a waste. AdvSens, Bomblet, LWF is all he needs.

That's kinda my feel too.

9 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

oh wow, did deadeye rhymer just become a thing?

He's still way too expensive.

7 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

He's still way too expensive.

Yep. The snap shot tactician build is seriously good. If he was even remotely costed well, we would be seeing that waaaay more than we are now.

What If you do two manoeuvres in one round, eg, Daredevil, SLAM (N/A), Adaptive (N/A) or Chirpy (crew) (Ordinance Tubes)?

Do you choose the fastest manoeuvre (makes the most sense), Add the speeds together, or crash the game? The card only ever mentions one manoeuvre.