For a long while it's seemed to me that the meta hasn't really had a vast amount of PS9+ pilots, and especially hasn't had a lot of 10s and 11s - Dengar and Fenn have been the highest-skill pilots common in the meta for some time, and neither wants to use PS-increasing EPTs.

But with the Havoc coming out with Nym in it, who'll do very nicely at PS10 with Bomblet Generators, Genius, and Advanced Sensors (and against whom having PS11 will be among the few ways to easily avoid bomblets), with RAC being one of the few Imperial pilots viable in high level competition, and with Quickdraw and Backdraft both sitting at PS9 (and QD can comfortably take VI, too), and with Talonbane on the horizon with his PS9 as well, it's feeling more and more to me like bumping up to PS10 or PS11 could have a huge amount of value. I'm thinking two-ship alpha lists like Dengar/Nym, RAC/Quickdraw, which have a decent chance to shoot first and remove or cripple even a PS9 ship before it can shoot. In particular, an alpha that can remove or cripple one of Dengar or Tel before they shoot could be a very strong tool. Tough to do, though.

I'm also amused by the fact that once Guns for Hire drops there will potentially be a 3-ship PS11 list which is at least functional, which is in and of itself hilarious:

Talonbane Cobra (28)
Veteran Instincts (1)
XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)
Black Market Slicer Tools (1)
Munitions Failsafe (1)
Guidance Chips (0)
Pulsed Ray Shield (2)
Vaksai (0)

Fenn Rau (28)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Autothrusters (2)
Concord Dawn Protector (1)

Dengar (33)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Extra Munitions (2)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I'm going to have to try it a bit, though I doubt it's competitively viable at all, though with Mindlinks instead of VIs, it could very well be.

So... does it feel to anyone else like we're about to enter a meta cycle where high PS rules, and arc dodging might start making a meaningful comeback?

Just a little food for thought.

(Still doesn't rescue Soontir though )

I've tried six ways from Sunday to make Carnor Jax make a meaningful impact during my games, but he gets burned by turrets EVERY TIME. Arc dodgers should be referred to as Range Three Impotentors. How the heck are people getting so much mileage out of him?

Just now, Alekzanter said:

I've tried six ways from Sunday to make Carnor Jax make a meaningful impact during my games, but he gets burned by turrets EVERY TIME. Arc dodgers should be referred to as Range Three Impotentors. How the heck are people getting so much mileage out of him?

Carnor's not really an arc dodger in the traditional sense, he's just a massive troll, a control piece. Fly him like Fenn, not like Soontir - burn for range 1 much more importantly than getting out of arc.

But... did you mean to post that reply in this thread?

1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

Carnor's not really an arc dodger in the traditional sense, he's just a massive troll, a control piece. Fly him like Fenn, not like Soontir - burn for range 1 much more importantly than getting out of arc.

But... did you mean to post that reply in this thread?

Yes. It came up in, conjunction with return of arc impotentors, so I jumped at it. Reflex, gut. In and out. My bad.

It has been working it's way back since the defender nerf.

I definitely felt that higher PS is becoming more of the norm again. With Ryad and Vessery not seeing as much table time as they used to, the main mid-PS ships around are Asajj, Biggs, and Palob outside of generics. Having a decent initiative bid feels like more of a priority for a mostly PS 9 list than it has for a while.

At least locally, I'm seeing a lot of VI RAC and Rey around, so PS 10 is a real presence.

I'm thinking HotCoP Gunner Vader Or Captive) VI Engine RAC and VI FCS TS LWF Quickdraw could be a really strong list in this meta. Move last, shoot first, and RAC can always get a TL to go with his pilot ability, and get full mods whilst boosting.

Heck this build might (sadly) make Kylo crew more competitive too. Not that I'd do that to my opponents...

22 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I'm thinking HotCoP Gunner Vader Or Captive) VI Engine RAC and VI FCS TS LWF Quickdraw could be a really strong list in this meta. Move last, shoot first, and RAC can always get a TL to go with his pilot ability, and get full mods whilst boosting.

Heck this build might (sadly) make Kylo crew more competitive too. Not that I'd do that to my opponents...

You really want the ship with HSCP to be shooting before anything else in your list to make the most of the token stripping. I'd probably probably swap VI for Adaptability to let you chose order of activation between the two ships as needed.

1 minute ago, Jarval said:

You really want the ship with HSCP to be shooting before anything else in your list to make the most of the token stripping. I'd probably probably swap VI for Adaptability to let you chose order of activation between the two ships as needed.

Oh derp, yeah, I knew there was a reason I was having that thought.

1 hour ago, Alekzanter said:

I've tried six ways from Sunday to make Carnor Jax make a meaningful impact during my games, but he gets burned by turrets EVERY TIME. Arc dodgers should be referred to as Range Three Impotentors. How the heck are people getting so much mileage out of him?

I also have trouble getting mileage out of him. It seems you want him at range one of all the enemy ships, but not in all their firing arcs :|

51 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I'm thinking HotCoP Gunner Vader Or Captive) VI Engine RAC and VI FCS TS LWF Quickdraw could be a really strong list in this meta. Move last, shoot first, and RAC can always get a TL to go with his pilot ability, and get full mods whilst boosting.

Heck this build might (sadly) make Kylo crew more competitive too. Not that I'd do that to my opponents...

It's doing alright. Has some weak points, but I've made it to two store top fours with RACdraw ft. Kylo.

It's still pretty dice/range dependent, the Hotshot version is probably a little more damaging, you just lose the sometimes critical control you get with Kylo.

... Also I killed a B-Wing who still had shields intact yesterday, so that always feels pretty good.

I would not expect too much of an escalation. I personally specialize in PS 6 builds for a simple reason: Ventress with her arc set to one side usually does not care about how good an arc dodger is. Most of the time, she'll still get her shot.

1 minute ago, dotswarlock said:

I would not expect too much of an escalation. I personally specialize in PS 6 builds for a simple reason: Ventress with her arc set to one side usually does not care about how good an arc dodger is. Most of the time, she'll still get her shot.

I'm at least partly not thinking about arc dodgers specifically, I'm also thinking sabout escalating PS in alpha striking. With Dengar/Tel throwing a nasty alpha at PS9, I think getting up to PS10 and taking one off the board or crippling it would be really good.

1 hour ago, Alekzanter said:

I've tried six ways from Sunday to make Carnor Jax make a meaningful impact during my games, but he gets burned by turrets EVERY TIME. Arc dodgers should be referred to as Range Three Impotentors. How the heck are people getting so much mileage out of him?

He's really a meta call, if there's a lot of Expertise and PS9 it's tough. Also takes a ton of practice.

As to the OP's question, yes. Cuz Fenn Rau ain't scary when you can barrel roll out to Range 2 and blow him up. I keep trying to fit Adaptability Vader in a list or PS9 aces with huge Initiative bids.