Synderael and Scourge question

By edcy, in Descent: Journeys in the Dark


1.Synderael's feat
(a)Another hero gains his move action, is this before or after Synderael's move action from this feat?
(b)Can that hero trade during this move action?
(c)Can Synderael attack during this move action?

2.SoN Quest :Respected Citizen counter 1
Can a conjurer use many friends to add green dice on bare attack to Batram ?

3.SoN Quest :Respected Citizen counter 1
The quest rule : Batram can't move into a map tile with any monster.
(a)If he is already on a map tile with monsters, can he move normaly ?
(b)Can he move through a space occupied by a monster ? (I think it is no)

4.Scourge and Word of Misery
If Word of Misery(here after referred to as
WOM) is played , Conjuer and another hero are adjacent the Scourge. If a effect causes the other hero to suffer a fatigue, is it right as below ?
(a)Because the other hero suffers a fatigue and adjacent the Scourge , OL can choose a image to suffer a fatigue .
(b)the conjuer suffers a fatigue and a heart because of the image is defeated. And WOM cause conjuer a fatigue. (this defeated image causes 1 heart and 2 fatigue)
(c)Because the conjuer suffers a fatigue(from his image defeated) adjacent the Scourge, OL can choose another image to suffer a fatigue.

(b)(c) loop until all image defeated.
And per image cause the conjuer 1 heart and 2 fatigue.

I am not sure if it is right . Because the Scourge seems become the conjurer's nemesis and just need 1 xp for OL. It's too cheap! And then WOM seems works many times on this combo (per image).


Edited by edcy

1a) The active player (the one playing Syndrael) decides who performs the move action first.
b) Yes, as according to the core rule book, the only prerequisites for trading are a move action and adjacency. Trading is not restricted to "during your turn".
c) Yes, as a standard move action is granted.

2) Yes. When a hero attacks with bare hands all abilities that add the attack pool or modify the result are still in effect.

3a) I am not sure here as "entering a tile" is not well defined by the current rules. I assume that Bertram may move when he is already on a space of a tile with monsters and "entering a tile" takes place if a figure is entering a space from another tile.
b) No, only through spaces occupied by heroes (2 movement points). Monsters (and familiars treated as figures) are off limits.

4a) Yes, possible as images are considered to be hero figures and hero figures can be affected by monster abilities.
b) Correct.

There has been a uFAQ that prevents infinite loops of suffering damage or fatigue created by similar effects. In this case it has been ruled that each effects may be triggered only once by the other effect. However, in the case you describe above the number of cycles of the loop is limited by the number of image tokens. Thus, I think that it is possible. It would be great to discuss this and work out a common model for the mechanics of situations where one effect triggers another potentially leading to finite or infinite loops.

Edited by Sadgit

For 3a I agree Bertram is free to move within a tile with a monster. The restriction is moving from one tile onto another with a monster.

The Scourge>WOM>Mirror Image loop is interesting because you could argue that every iteration is caused by the scourge's effect so it should stop after 1 loop,or that WOM should only trigger once. However, the effects are indirect, so no card ever causes its own effect to trigger again.

In other words, we've got effects A and B which can each lead to loops if allowed (A triggers A triggers A... and B triggers B triggers B....) but both of those have been prevented by rulings. A is not allowed to trigger A, and B is not allowed to trigger B. But is "A triggers B triggers A triggers B..." legal? That's a very interesting question. The case above is more accurately "A > B > C > A > B > C..." (where A is the scourge, B is Mirror image, C is Word of Misery).

Edited by Zaltyre

Yeah, that's the reason I wanted to discuss this.

So we have the following rules:1. An effect cannot trigger itself.
2. An effect can trigger another effect only once.If I got Nathan right, in your example the sequence would stop here: A triggers B triggers A. A cannot trigger B again as it has already done this once.

I am still thinking about edcy's case as there are triggers involved that cause separate effects to activate at the same time.

Edited by Sadgit