1 hour ago, RufusDaMan said:

My issue is not whether or not the SCURRG is broken or not (but probably closer to being broken than useless), my issue is that it is really hard to imagine that the SCURRG and the K-wing are supposed to be at the level of the Punisher.

They AREN'T supposed to be at the level of the punisher? The punisher is crap. you don't make new stuff equal to useless old stuff just to avoid making the old stuff "Look worse". The issue is more that the punisher should be at the level of the others and its...not so it needs some help.

1 hour ago, RufusDaMan said:

As of now, I can only imagine 3 possible scenarios that answers these.

- FFG designers are incompetent
- FFG favors 1 faction over the others
- FFG is planning a *massive* nerf to Jumpmaster, and they are trying to give alternative options before the FAQ hits.

One of these, (at least to my mind) has to be true. I cannot see why else would FFG do this.

FFG designers are far from perfect, but not incompetent. And I've never talked to them personally, but I'm fairly confident they don't favor 1 faction over the others. I DO foresee some form of jumpmaster nerf incoming.

2 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

They AREN'T supposed to be at the level of the punisher? The punisher is crap. you don't make new stuff equal to useless old stuff just to avoid making the old stuff "Look worse". The issue is more that the punisher should be at the level of the others and its...not so it needs some help.

That argument flies for the Scurrg, but not for the K-wing. On that part, I can believe there was a bit of miscalculation. Maybe the K-wing is a bit more stronger than intended, and maybe the Punisher is a bit weaker than intended.... But even then it is a big stretch to say they are supposed to be equals. But if they are not supposed to be equals (to me that fact is apparent), then what? There is a role (heavy ordnance) Imperials are decidedly worse, so much so, that their ships are not worth fielding? Why?

Then the Scurrg comes, and while it doesn't look like its better than Miranda, and lacks the versatility of SLAM, it suffers from some serious "problems".

- The unjustified EPT-s. Seriously. Why does every scum ship get an automatic Elite slot? These are supposed to be generic thugs. I understand the named Bounty Hunters, and I never complained about the high PS of "no name" characters. It makes sense for those characters. What doesn't make sense is every idiot in the employment of a crimelord is suddenly an elite pilot.
- A native attack of 3, with tons of options to gain additional support for it (Elite, Crew or System). Okay, the Scurrg is a mean ship, but does its role justify this? I hardly think so. I also don't think it is factored in the price of the ship.
(I could go on, but its not the point)

Then comes the question of "love". If you were to look at the 3 ships of the wave, which do you think was the ship that the developers most cared for?

To me, it looks as if one of the ships was developed to fill a missing niche, another one to add the obligatory epic action, and one because somebody was in love with it.

If that can be seen, I think there is a problem.

50 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

They AREN'T supposed to be at the level of the punisher?

Sadly, a lot of X-Wing players seem to have a problem conceptualizing this - that some ships are "bad" or mistakenly made in a weak way rather than a strong way. They are not necessarily in the right place because developers thought things would work out but didn't catch on, or they were scared of things becoming too strong in the game but can't play the game that much to see without releasing the ship or because it's got a cool new toy which could be seen as "valuable" but actually weighing down the ship itself (i/e increase cost due to upgrade slots inherently - even though many upgrades cost points and opportunity) but you play with the math too much it gets bad.

Many old waves of X-Wing ships are very floofily costed and suffer for it - most modern ships are well balanced - though that quality can often be upset when there are qualities which are unbalanced in game.

It's like some kind of schadenfreude thing - "because old ships suffered, new ships must suffer". When really it makes more sense to try and put both new ships and raise old ships to be on point. That'd even make it less devastating when something is tilted too strong and slips through.

33 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

The unjustified EPT-s

EPTs are incredibly useful on all ships. It's a diverse slot which can often make or break a ship (see: how often do Interceptors which can't PTL get played?), and often justifies the need to pay for a higher PS ship over a lower one besides just "well, he's got 2 more points of PS that'll actually matter". They also help generic block flying rather than specifically playing with unique pilots.

Older ships were just shafted because the "Eliteness" and then possibility of EPTs for ships was probably underestimated (or overestimated and the risk was "too great") onto how useful they actually are. And for corporate reasons or it just gets their knickers in a twist FFG for some reason won't do some of those older ships a solid (Hi, Y-Wings) and just slap that EPT symbol on there. Scum, being the newest faction and with less baggage, probably have more EPTs because they have less **** to worry about - Re: FFG is really scared of Ruthlessness for some reason (or they're just averse to the lowest-cost Turret carriers getting generics with EPTs).

This is not a strike against the Scurrg, it's a strike that some ships really should have more pilots with EPTs, and no R2-D6 is not enough of a bandaid (and note that that card affects PS3 and up).

33 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

- A native attack of 3, with tons of options to gain additional support for it (Elite, Crew or System). Okay, the Scurrg is a mean ship, but does its role justify this? I hardly think so. I also don't think it is factored in the price of the ship.

It has six honking laser cannons on the front, 2 ATK would be selling it short. If the Phantom gets 4 ATK for 5 cannons then it's still sold short as is, but nobody would be happy with Scum 4 red ships at this time. It's supposed to be a bit of a brawler, and 3 ATK makes it a better home for Synced Turret (you can reroll all your dice in arc) but, y'know TLTs exist. Also, how is it not factored in, it costs more than the Lambda and B-Wing lowest, and has 1 lower PS than both those generics. Are you suggesting it should pay a higher price for BR (which costs 2 points and the mod slot to add on a small ship) or all it's upgrade icons you have to spend points to actually use anyway?

26 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

That argument flies for the Scurrg, but not for the K-wing. On that part, I can believe there was a bit of miscalculation. Maybe the K-wing is a bit more stronger than intended, and maybe the Punisher is a bit weaker than intended.... But even then it is a big stretch to say they are supposed to be equals. But if they are not supposed to be equals (to me that fact is apparent), then what? There is a role (heavy ordnance) Imperials are decidedly worse, so much so, that their ships are not worth fielding? Why?

The Punisher is more than a "bit" weaker than intended. They clearly missed the mark. Like I said, they're not perfect. The real differnece is SLAM on the k-wing. I imagine if the k-wing didn't have slam it probably wouldn't see much more use than the punisher does (miranda might, but probably still not with bombs as much). Also, k-wings weren't that great with bombs either until after Sabine released (and even more after cluster mines were buffed). Imperials don't have that

Quote

Then the Scurrg comes, and while it doesn't look like its better than Miranda , and lacks the versatility of SLAM, it suffers from some serious "problems".

- The unjustified EPT-s. Seriously. Why does every scum ship get an automatic Elite slot? These are supposed to be generic thugs. I understand the named Bounty Hunter s, and I never complained about the high PS of "no name" characters. It makes sense for those characters. What doesn't make sense is every idiot in the employment of a crimelord is suddenly an elite pilot.

As for EPTs, maybe the designers are slowly learning that outside of places where an EPT slot might be too good (like heragator, probably miranda), very few named pilots without EPT slots actually see use. The same applies to higher PS generics. The most common generics to see in play are either the lowest PS or whatever generic has an EPT. As for "generic thugs", I'd actually argue that scum have goodr eason to be darn good pilots, since for a lot of them it's their livelyhood. Smugglers need to be ablet o avoid patrols, black sun is basically a full on military organization, etc.

Quote

- A native attack of 3, with tons of options to gain additional support for it (Elite, Crew or System). Okay, the Scurrg is a mean ship, but does its role justify this? I hardly think so. I also don't think it is factored in the price of the ship.
(I could go on, but its not the point)

The thing has 6 forward-facing laser cannons. They could have easily given it 4 attack. They actually dialed it down to make it 3 (my custom version I was working on for the CCL was 4 atack, though large base). Crew slot is there because....the ship had more than just the pilot. Also, the system is only on the title (and mutually exclusive with crew)

And for the havoc title, they could have just let you take any salvaged astromechs, but they specifically limited it to uniques to prevent some of the OP combos you could do with the generics.

Quote

Then comes the question of "love". If you were to look at the 3 ships of the wave, which do you think was the ship that the developers most cared for?

To me, it looks as if one of the ships was developed to fill a missing niche, another one to add the obligatory epic action, and one because somebody was in love with it.

If that can be seen, I think there is a problem.

Plenty of imperial players have been begging for a turret ship for a long time. People are already ******* about the auzituck being OP, so I can't agree that it's the "obligatory" epic action and the scurrg is there because they love scum.

And the scurrg already exists in armada, and was an obvious choice to give scum a small-base bomber.

All forever expanding games become top heavy and fail, no matter how well they start.

I like this game. Having said that, the combos you can perform are frankly ludicrous. Me, I don't like the 'expanded' universe outside the live action movies, but I know that there will be a nonstop series of releases, no matter where the lord comes from, as long as there are sales.

Everybody has to have their own stopping point or be doomed to throw money at the mercy of needing the new shiny. This is why I think tournaments are a short road to disaster. Casual play > store play > tournaments ALWAYS . I think x-wing is wonderful just for that and nothing more.

Not fun combos only exist if you keep playing with opponents who use them. I feel most sorry for tournament players, and their wallets

3 hours ago, KelRiever said:

This is why I think tournaments are a short road to disaster. Casual play > store play > tournaments ALWAYS . I think x-wing is wonderful just for that and nothing more.

Not fun combos only exist if you keep playing with opponents who use them. I feel most sorry for tournament players, and their wallets

Bravo. Couldn't agree more. Now., how to get FFG to see the light.

5 hours ago, Thormind said:

?? You can disagree with me but what i said is not ignorant at all. First of all that ship has a potential for doing up to 4 points of dmg/turn. 2 of those are quite reliable (TLT). The goal of the bomb here is to protect the range 1 bubble of the TLT and control the battlefield more than doing it's dmg. Look at it has a dissuasive tool. It creates a big zone where your opponent ships wont want to go, thus reducing the number of available good maneuver options.

What??? A ship has to waste an action to get out of the bomb range and you think it's bad?? Most good player will tell you that action economy is a big part of the game. Using a bomb that cost no action to make your opponent waste one is a pretty good move, wouldnt you agree? If at the same time it puts said ship outside of your range 1 then thats a double ++ for you.

There are also situations where youll move by 1 after droping that bomb. As a ps1 ship you might have some chance to block a ship before it can do it's movement shenanigans. Guess what that ship is going to eat?

You are also forgetting that a lot of scums pilot/ship rely on some range and or positioning to do their things: Shadowcaster, Fenn, Old Teroch, Dengar, TalonBane and Guri (after their boost), etc. Having a partner that can help control your opponent position is a significant addition to the faction.

Think what you want but like i said, this ship is IMO the best of the 3 spoiled so far for wave 11. And yes, the fact that it's scum upset many people because it's already the dominating faction by a HUGE margin. It's not just a little better, it's already way ahead of the other 2 factions.

Also i dont know what kind of game you are playing but a ship with 5 hull, 5 shield and 1 agi doesnt have bad defense in my book.

Sooooo.... you admit you're only crying because it's Scum, not because it actually negatively effects the game in any way what so ever? You don't think that crying because a faction other than your preferred one got something interesting is a tad childish? I mean really, every faction has it's ups and downs and spotlight time in the meta. It happens that way in just about every growing game system conceived rather it be digital or physical.

What's even more laughable is how you and the rest of the whiners go on about how Scum always get the best ships. Tell me, how often have you seen the Kihraxz, Scyk, Starviper, G-1A, or the more recent Quadjumper over the months/years? For getting all the "best stuff" it sure took FFG a long fooking time to give S&V a competitively viable small based ship. Also let me reiterate on the Quadjumper, it's the most recent scum release besides the C-Roc and it's not exactly lighting the tables on fire with how awesome it is.

I mean hell if you're being honest Scum has only had 2 good waves before this one, the JM5K and the ShadowCaster/Protectorate. You could possibly count the Houndstooth but it wasn't that great IMO until S&V got more crew options to stack on it.

As for it's strength, you're grasping. It has a potential for 4 damage the way any 3 red ship has the potential, possible but not likely, in fact it's a lot less likely. The TLT is 1-2, likely 1 against anything with decent defenses as you're not gonna have that many attack modifiers if you're running light. The bomb is another possible 2 but if you're running light without Cad that's only likely to be 1 damage. Once again however the bomb is rather unlikely to hit anything at such low PS. True it can be useful for zoning and action denial as you say, but that's not damage, you'll still have a third of your list doing as much damage as a much cheaper Y-Wing. It's up to you if that bit of action/area denial is worth a whooping 9 points over a bog standard Thug. I'm guessing by the amount of good support skills that don't see much play that most people aren't willing to pay 9 points for nothing more than a bit of unreliable area denial.

It's not much better or worse than the K-wing, except the K-wing has Miranda and Sabine. In short if people can handle K-Wings it's unlikely the Scurrg is gonna break anything in the current lineup.

As for your comment Rufus, it seems pretty **** silly to balance a ship around a currently released ship that's widely considered weak and rarely if ever sees play. The Punisher needs some love and I'm guessing they'll probably include it in a pack at some point, but in the meantime why do you think we should balance the other bombers around it? So we can have 3 under played ships instead of 1? That makes no sense, it's just more **** they gotta go back and fix later.

Same basic argument for your Lambda comparison, it's an older ship that fell to the wayside thanks to naturally progressing power creep. The Scurrg ain't the reason the Lambda don't see play, regardless or not if the Scurrg is overpowered or complete trash it has absolutely no bearing on the Lambdas use. So why the hell would they balance a new release by a very old ship standard? Your reasoning makes absolutely no sense from a design stand point.

6 hours ago, KelRiever said:

Casual play > store play > tournaments ALWAYS . I think x-wing is wonderful just for that and nothing more.

Oh, it's in bold, then it must be fact. I could swear I prefer competitive format, but it turns out I'm mistaken. Weird.

I don't think they are incompetent, but the designers do look a bit disconnected from the game.

They never expected people to combine Deadeye with the Jumpmaster and Guidance Chips, even when all those things came in the same wave.
I bet Alex Davy still wonders why almost nobody is using Electronic Baffle, when he said that it was the best upgrade in Wave 8.

What about R3 Astromech and other many cards that everyone saw that were worthless just after the first spoiler preview? Why making Integrated Astromech a Modification instead of a title or any other thing, when they knew Vectored Thrusters was coming, and the T-70 preferred Autothrusters?
Why balancing the whole Rebel faction around Biggs? Doesn't it make them depend even more on fielding Biggs, then?

Why the Scurgg is so much better than the B-wing when it's only 2 points more expensive (although giving it a turret slot is essentially giving it a -3 point discount, since TLT is undercosted by 3 points).
Why Fenn Rau gets to fire infinite Proton Rockets for fewer points than Soontir Fel or Vader?

Why Rebels and Empire/First Order keep getting shuttles (U-wing, Wookie ship, Upsilon, TIE Shuttle) when Scum is actually the faction with the best crew and lowest cost?

Finally, who really asked for these ships, in particular the wookie ship, that seems to sit between the U-wing and the B-wing, a offer for a niche without demand?

8 hours ago, BomberGob said:

Sooooo.... you admit you're only crying because it's Scum, not because it actually negatively effects the game in any way what so ever? You don't think that crying because a faction other than your preferred one got something interesting is a tad childish? I mean really, every faction has it's ups and downs and spotlight time in the meta. It happens that way in just about every growing game system conceived rather it be digital or physical.

What's even more laughable is how you and the rest of the whiners go on about how Scum always get the best ships. Tell me, how often have you seen the Kihraxz, Scyk, Starviper, G-1A, or the more recent Quadjumper over the months/years? For getting all the "best stuff" it sure took FFG a long fooking time to give S&V a competitively viable small based ship. Also let me reiterate on the Quadjumper, it's the most recent scum release besides the C-Roc and it's not exactly lighting the tables on fire with how awesome it is.

I mean hell if you're being honest Scum has only had 2 good waves before this one, the JM5K and the ShadowCaster/Protectorate. You could possibly count the Houndstooth but it wasn't that great IMO until S&V got more crew options to stack on it.

As for it's strength, you're grasping. It has a potential for 4 damage the way any 3 red ship has the potential, possible but not likely, in fact it's a lot less likely. The TLT is 1-2, likely 1 against anything with decent defenses as you're not gonna have that many attack modifiers if you're running light. The bomb is another possible 2 but if you're running light without Cad that's only likely to be 1 damage. Once again however the bomb is rather unlikely to hit anything at such low PS. True it can be useful for zoning and action denial as you say, but that's not damage, you'll still have a third of your list doing as much damage as a much cheaper Y-Wing. It's up to you if that bit of action/area denial is worth a whooping 9 points over a bog standard Thug. I'm guessing by the amount of good support skills that don't see much play that most people aren't willing to pay 9 points for nothing more than a bit of unreliable area denial.

It's not much better or worse than the K-wing, except the K-wing has Miranda and Sabine. In short if people can handle K-Wings it's unlikely the Scurrg is gonna break anything in the current lineup.

As for your comment Rufus, it seems pretty **** silly to balance a ship around a currently released ship that's widely considered weak and rarely if ever sees play. The Punisher needs some love and I'm guessing they'll probably include it in a pack at some point, but in the meantime why do you think we should balance the other bombers around it? So we can have 3 under played ships instead of 1? That makes no sense, it's just more **** they gotta go back and fix later.

Same basic argument for your Lambda comparison, it's an older ship that fell to the wayside thanks to naturally progressing power creep. The Scurrg ain't the reason the Lambda don't see play, regardless or not if the Scurrg is overpowered or complete trash it has absolutely no bearing on the Lambdas use. So why the hell would they balance a new release by a very old ship standard? Your reasoning makes absolutely no sense from a design stand point.

Oh I agree with you wholeheartedly, excellent analysis.

Though it is the first "prime" example of power creep we've seen in a hot second, the last two waves weren't exactly awe inspiring in terms of meta shifting power (however that's not always needed), and the other two releases for this wave do seem "meh" to those who want to only play the most broken and stupidly point efficient lists. The Skurrg has some people up in arms because it has something new and "scary" and for its stat line is placed at a decent price point. Just like with Boshek I'll reserve my judgment until the ship is released and have learnt half a dozen ways to destroy it or outfly it

12 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:

That argument flies for the Scurrg, but not for the K-wing. On that part, I can believe there was a bit of miscalculation. Maybe the K-wing is a bit more stronger than intended, and maybe the Punisher is a bit weaker than intended.... But even then it is a big stretch to say they are supposed to be equals. But if they are not supposed to be equals (to me that fact is apparent), then what? There is a role (heavy ordnance) Imperials are decidedly worse, so much so, that their ships are not worth fielding? Why?

Then the Scurrg comes, and while it doesn't look like its better than Miranda, and lacks the versatility of SLAM, it suffers from some serious "problems".

- The unjustified EPT-s. Seriously. Why does every scum ship get an automatic Elite slot? These are supposed to be generic thugs. I understand the named Bounty Hunters, and I never complained about the high PS of "no name" characters. It makes sense for those characters. What doesn't make sense is every idiot in the employment of a crimelord is suddenly an elite pilot.
- A native attack of 3, with tons of options to gain additional support for it (Elite, Crew or System). Okay, the Scurrg is a mean ship, but does its role justify this? I hardly think so. I also don't think it is factored in the price of the ship.
(I could go on, but its not the point)

Then comes the question of "love". If you were to look at the 3 ships of the wave, which do you think was the ship that the developers most cared for?

To me, it looks as if one of the ships was developed to fill a missing niche, another one to add the obligatory epic action, and one because somebody was in love with it.

If that can be seen, I think there is a problem.

Sure the Skurrg is obviously the stand out shop of the wave and though this idea of "love" can be debated let's look at some more obvious evidence for why it has made such a splash

- Strong baseline? Check

- Unique and appealing abilities and usage? Check

- Adds new elements to the game and creates possible design space and new tactics? Check

the other ships in this wave have none of this, they are decent ships with niches to fill and definitely have a place in their respective legions. Sure they were underwhelming and not offering anything particularly "new" or "broken" but they now exist. Consider them (mainly the aggressor here) as a way to help place the factions on similar footings going forward while still being usable themselves. And unless the aggressor has an absolutely worthless dial it may become one of the better TLT spammers, also its pilots offer some anti ace or Autothrusters stuff.

Yes the Skurrg has problems and it is evidence of power creep but other than its base what it offers can be applied in some way by all factions. To varying degrees of effectiveness of course.

However are we only considering the scum Skurrg as being good because of what its faction already has to offer? Sort of, but it also has its own merits. If they ever nerf scum it'll be interesting to see where the Skurrg and other such ships stand then.

Ill reserve my judgement of whether it's broken or not for now, but I am hoping forward wearily. It's hard to know if FFG is taking into account nerds and future releases we don't know of yet so I'll just assume they know what they're doing.

13 hours ago, KelRiever said:

Casual play > store play > tournaments ALWAYS . I think x-wing is wonderful just for that and nothing more.

Don't you tell me how to have my fun! You're not the fun police!

9 hours ago, BomberGob said:

Sooooo.... you admit you're only crying because it's Scum, not because it actually negatively effects the game in any way what so ever? You don't think that crying because a faction other than your preferred one got something interesting is a tad childish?

I dont know if you realize this but your tone is improper. There are ways to disagree without being disrespectful. Thats what i would define as "childish"... Now back on topic:

On the top 10 archetypes of list juggler there are 8 scum builds with 2 rebel ones and no Imperial. 1 faction is currently totally dominating the game. Do i really have to say that it isnt a good thing??? I have nothing against the scums per se. If the roles were reversed and it was the Rebels or the Imperials that were in such a position, it would still be bad for the game and people would still be upset.

9 hours ago, BomberGob said:

I mean really, every faction has it's ups and downs and spotlight time in the meta. It happens that way in just about every growing game system conceived rather it be digital or physical.

I do agree partly with you. Most of the time there will be some game elements that are slightly better than others. At least in most well balanced game. We are not talking about a slight advantage here. Another problem is the imbalance has been there for more than a year now. It's only getting worst with no fix on the horizon.

Before playing Xwing, i used to play a game called Dice Masters. We had a good community in my area and it was quite a fun game to play. That's until the developer started to screw up the balance and some game elements got so strong you needed to have them in order to compete. It took 6 months for our community to disolve as one player after another would "ragequit". I paid my card collection close to 2000$ and i barely managed to get back 300$ when i sold it.

I'm seeing the same patern happening with Xwing and it's starting to scare me. In my local area, when we play casual, the builds/factions diversity is pretty good. As soon as there are tournements or prices involved, almost 90% of the players switch to scums. When people are looking at our tables, they dont even recognize the game theme.

10 hours ago, BomberGob said:

What's even more laughable is how you and the rest of the "not a proper word to use" go on about how Scum always get the best ships.

That's not what upset me and other players. I dont know where you take that but it seems to be a huge distortion of what we are actually saying. Since the Jump Master release the scums got 2 ships that are stronger than almost everything else available to the other factions. Fen is without a doubt the best Ace of the entire game. The Caster is the 2nd strongest large ship after the JMK.

IMO the Scuurg is not just the best ship of the wave. It's on par with the Caster and the Protectorate in term of power lvl. And its not just the ship. Do you really think that giving moded bombs to Manaroo or the scouts (Bane) is a good idea??

10 hours ago, BomberGob said:

Tell me, how often have you seen the Kihraxz, Scyk, Starviper, G-1A, or the more recent Quadjumper over the months/years?

You do realize that with the incoming fix the scums will be left with only 1 below average ship (the G-1A)? Meanwhile the Rebels and the Imperial have been waiting for fixes on many of their ships for years. I'm not saying that scums ships should never get fixes or good upgrades. Just that in term of priority, it's the other 2 factions that critically need them at the moment.

11 hours ago, BomberGob said:

As for it's strength, you're grasping. It has a potential for 4 damage the way any 3 red ship has the potential, possible but not likely, in fact it's a lot less likely. The TLT is 1-2, likely 1 against anything with decent defenses as you're not gonna have that many attack modifiers if you're running light. The bomb is another possible 2 but if you're running light without Cad that's only likely to be 1 damage. Once again however the bomb is rather unlikely to hit anything at such low PS. True it can be useful for zoning and action denial as you say, but that's not damage, you'll still have a third of your list doing as much damage as a much cheaper Y-Wing. It's up to you if that bit of action/area denial is worth a whooping 9 points over a bog standard Thug. I'm guessing by the amount of good support skills that don't see much play that most people aren't willing to pay 9 points for nothing more than a bit of unreliable area denial.

Time will tell. But the average thug is 25 points (silly not account for Unhinged). For 8 points you add 2 more shields, higher dmg potential and much better control options. Yes IMO its worth it.

11 hours ago, BomberGob said:

It's not much better or worse than the K-wing, except the K-wing has Miranda and Sabine. In short if people can handle K-Wings it's unlikely the Scurrg is gonna break anything in the current lineup.

The K-wing is a huge problem for the Imperials and the main reason why the faction is struggling. Adding a comperable ship to the scums without giving the empire a way to defend against bombs will only make things worst.

16 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:

The unjustified EPT-s. Seriously. Why does every scum ship get an automatic Elite slot? These are supposed to be generic thugs. I understand the named Bounty Hunters, and I never complained about the high PS of "no name" characters. It makes sense for those characters. What doesn't make sense is every idiot in the employment of a crimelord is suddenly an elite pilot.

I recall hearing an interview with FFG and the design team where they said they wanted each faction to have a 'flavor'. Rebels have tanky regen, Imps have arc dodging and Scum have epts on more pilots to represent the lack of standardization and motley crue of pirates.

8 hours ago, Sekac said:

Oh, it's in bold, then it must be fact. I could swear I prefer competitive format, but it turns out I'm mistaken. Weird.

Yes it is. Clearly you are wrong.

I'm just here to help you

Or, you know, you could just admit to being triggered by my opinion ('cause before I say, 'I think.')

Just now, John Rainbow said:

I recall hearing an interview with FFG and the design team where they said they wanted each faction to have a 'flavor'. Rebels have tanky regen, Imps have arc dodging and Scum have epts on more pilots to represent the lack of standardization and motley crue of pirates.

In that case, I'd like Scum to remove the Fang Fighter from its roster, and have their janky ept-s.....

I am actually quite mad about that, because it is bad design, but nvm... Stating such things on this forum is risky

3 hours ago, Quadjumper King said:

Sure the Skurrg is obviously the stand out shop of the wave and though this idea of "love" can be debated let's look at some more obvious evidence for why it has made such a splash:

- Strong baseline? Check, check, check, check!

- Unique and appealing abilities and usage? Check, check, check, check, check check!!

- Adds new elements to the game and creates possible design space and new tactics? Check

the other ships in this wave have none of this, they are decent ships with niches to fill and definitely have a place in their respective legions. Sure they were underwhelming and not offering anything particularly "new" or "broken" but they now exist. Consider them (mainly the aggressor here) as a way to help place the factions on similar footings going forward while still being usable themselves. And unless the aggressor has an absolutely worthless dial it may become one of the better TLT spammers, also its pilots offer some anti ace or Autothrusters stuff.

Yes the Skurrg has problems and it is evidence of power creep but other than its base what it offers can be applied in some way to --Rebels get a great K-Wing boost so Miranda/Sabine are even more OP, and give an average boost (like every other faction received) to a sucking eddy of despair that is the Punisher-- by all factions. To varying degrees of effectiveness of course.

However are we only considering the scum Skurrg as being good because of what its faction already has to offer? Sort of, but it also has its own merits. If they ever nerf scum it'll be interesting to see where the Skurrg and other such ships stand then. Ill reserve my judgement of whether it's broken or not for now, but I am hoping forward wearily. It's hard to know if FFG is taking into account nerds and future releases we don't know of yet so I'll just assume they know what they're doing.

I added this to your well-penned thought trail.

And sir, this makes you a fine example of optimism, I applaud you. But I honestly have not any optimism left for the FFG designers after the slowness of issuing the rest of the balancing FAQ; and the unleashing of this crazy boost to Scum Expansion. I haven't any optimism for FFG fixing this mess....seems they are just throwing gas on the proverbial dumpster fire.

9 minutes ago, John Rainbow said:

I recall hearing an interview with FFG and the design team where they said they wanted each faction to have a 'flavor'. Rebels have tanky regen, Imps have arc dodging and Scum have epts on more pilots to represent the lack of standardization and motley crue of pirates.

So the tanky regen Rebels is still intact, and they also have the best bombing platform and crew period. Imperials do not have Arc dodging to themselves anymore as every faction has barrel-rolling and re-positioning now and the Scum can even barrel roll large base s**ts; bombing is and will future obliterate that mode of operation anyway. And last but the opposite of least, the Scum faction has the best pilots, the best ships and the most action efficiency by far and can do what every other faction can do almost better on every point...even shield regen. If those designer's actually stated what you're claiming, and I'll bet they did at some point, I have no reason to doubt it, then they have either forgotten it, have completely changed their minds, or they don't give a crap about that anymore. If anyone can find it in a video or audio, post it on the forum, that would be grand to see......and sad as h***.

23 minutes ago, John Rainbow said:

I recall hearing an interview with FFG and the design team where they said they wanted each faction to have a 'flavor'. Rebels have tanky regen, Imps have arc dodging and Scum have epts on more pilots to represent the lack of standardization and motley crue of pirates.

Curious, because I precisely remember Davy saying that they were going with the theme of Scum being full with tricks (Illicit) but lacking pilots at PS 9 to represent that they weren't the very best in the galaxy, but that they didn't need to. That was between Wave 6 and 7.
Then Wave 7 came out and they got Talonbane Cobra at PS 9. Well, that was okay. Just one PS 9 pilot. But not a great one.

Then they got Dengar.

Then they got Fenn Rau.

Thing is I get it...we all want our rules to be 100% fair all the time. But there's a reality to this, and the reality is that in any game where rules are constantly added, mistakes will be made. I'm not even arguing if these scum rules are a mistake. But zero games are perfect, and to me, zero games are even close to perfect.

If you don't like the rule/card/whatever don't play with it. Come to an agreement with your friends. It's too hard, to me, to go making every rules change sacred, or pretending like 'official' rules are some sort of utopia. Mostly, FFG does a pretty good job, even if they blow it every now and then.

while I agree with Kel that games are impossible to be perfectly balanced and that X-wing is far from perfect, the state of it seems much healthier than we let on (apart from jumps). Sure the meta pushes certain ships away, esp bombs v arcdodgers, but I find that personally encouraging and it is why I personally enjoy playing relatively competitively (refuse to travel to regionals just to go tilt on bad fickle greens)

to me, the competitive atmosphere present a string of limitations on what squads you can rely on to win consistently. Imo, that limitation is a good thing . People often mistake the expression of creativity as being something that flourishes in an atmosphere without limits, when really it is limitation that spurs creativity. It presents complex problems with limited resources that require creative application in order to make work.

It's what led me to create every squad I've ever built (because I detest playing the same build as everyone else, I blame 40k spess mehrine fest for traumatizing me into that mindset), and which has also seemed to spur a glorious rise in the use of SF during this store championship season. More than just squad composition, though, the strengths of meta lists will force you to fly creatively too. Specifically, I've had to learn to abandon engagements with my x7s because of the errata + speed 3 or more requirement opening up far more bad scenarios--especially against turrets that like to dart between obstacles. It's taught me to fly more patiently and has led to far more thought provoking games.

I love the challenge of it, especially when some bullcrap I made manages to knock down dreaded meta lists

17 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:

[SNIP]

The issue is that nobody realised how good SLAM and particularly Advanced SLAM was.

The K-Wing and the Punisher were clearly meant to be equivalent when released, but one of them could be completely ignored while the other was meta defining due to a unique action.

The Scurrg seems to be everything that the Punisher should be if it were released today.

1 hour ago, Thormind said:

You do realize that with the incoming fix the scums will be left with only 1 below average ship (the G-1A)? Meanwhile the Rebels and the Imperial have been waiting for fixes on many of their ships for years. I'm not saying that scums ships should never get fixes or good upgrades. Just that in term of priority, it's the other 2 factions that critically need them at the moment.

What exactly do you consider 'average' ?

4 minutes ago, Mangipan said:

The K-Wing and the Punisher were clearly meant to be equivalent when released

This I can't believe. It's not only the Slam that makes that ship better (its's one of the reasons), but it had to be obvious that crew + turret + PWT equals a much more versatile ship than a REALLY big TIE bomber

26 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

This I can't believe. It's not only the Slam that makes that ship better (its's one of the reasons), but it had to be obvious that crew + turret + PWT equals a much more versatile ship than a REALLY big TIE bomber

Also only 2 more points expensive for ps 2

...yeah someone ****** up bad

Probably "something something system slot" and then somebody realized "wait, nobody hardly flies small ships with system slots because they're so **** expensive".