5 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

quick (genuine) question: is it not powercreep giving another faction a version of miranda? even if Nym/Sol don't have Adv. Slam? While also giving Rebels another option at a ship that is clearly powercreep (courtesty of Sabine) with some questionable mechanics attached to her?

Quick (genuine) answer: these apples aren't oranges.

2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Uhh...it aint a version of miranda

It cant regen

At all

Thats kinda a massively important distinction, not even getting into the flexibility of adv. SLAM

^See above.

7 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Uhh...it aint a version of miranda

It cant regen

At all

Thats kinda a massively important distinction because of how it skyrockets her durability far beyond what the SCURGG is capable of, not even getting into the flexibility of adv. SLAM

I'll use an anecdote to counter that (for discussion purposes): runner-up at worlds didn't use a regen Miranda

7 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Uhh...it aint a version of miranda

It cant regen

At all

Thats kinda a massively important distinction because of how it skyrockets her durability far beyond what the SCURGG is capable of, not even getting into the flexibility of adv. SLAM

It also can't five-dice Homing Missiles.

Or fly a third of the way across the board to drop Cluster Mines right on your head.

4 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

I'll use an anecdote to counter that (for discussion purposes): runner-up at worlds didn't use a regen Miranda

Uh yes he did

EVERY miranda can regenerate

7 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

I'll use an anecdote to counter that (for discussion purposes): runner-up at worlds didn't use a regen Miranda

3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Uh yes he did

EVERY miranda can regenerate

Womp, womp.

10 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Uh yes he did

EVERY miranda can regenerate

I was referring to build designed to take full advantage of her regen (i.e. TLT) but I'll just cede.

You're right on all accounts tho, no reason to be concerned with any of the ships/pilots in this wave...

8 minutes ago, E Chu Ta said:

Womp, womp.

Right here, bud.

3 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

I was referring to build designed to take full advantage of her regen (i.e. TLT) but I'll just cede.

You're right on all accounts tho, no reason to be concerned with any of the ships/pilots in this wave...

Honestly, probably not

Everything currently existing is far more e fficient than wave 11, insofar as i can see anyway

Still gonna run two SCURRG because wingspan is my fetish, and an aggressor with two SF for shiggles

Aint touching that wookie junk

1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:

Honestly, probably not

Everything currently existing is far more e fficient than wave 11, insofar as i can see anyway

Still gonna run two SCURRG because wingspan is my fetish, and an aggressor with two SF for shiggles

Aint touching that wookie junk

Agreed. The only thing I think is bonkers is the Rebel Captain Nym, and even then I think you have to spend so much to make him bonkers that it's fine and probably not as good as existing options for around that cost.

21 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Honestly, probably not

Everything currently existing is far more e fficient than wave 11, insofar as i can see anyway

Still gonna run two SCURRG because wingspan is my fetish, and an aggressor with two SF for shiggles

Aint touching that wookie junk

I keep theory-crafting with the Wookie ship and am coming to the same conclusion each time: I want to use Lowrick (or whatever) to keep Biggs alive because Biggs simply does it better. Then I have 30-40 points left. And in a Rebel list, that simply does not work.

I tip my cap to the Devs, though, for trying to get us thinking about alternatives to the 'stache. Until I see the right combo, I can't justify buying it.. Does Selflessness warrant the purchase?

1 minute ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

I keep theory-crafting with the Wookie ship and am coming to the same conclusion each time: I want to use Lowrick (or whatever) to keep Biggs alive because Biggs simply does it better. Then I have 30-40 points left. And in a Rebel list, that simply does not work.

I tip my cap to the Devs, though, for trying to get us thinking about alternatives to the 'stache. Until I see the right combo, I can't justify buying it.. Does Selflessness warrant the purchase?

30-40?

Miranda

2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

30-40?

Miranda

I want to see your 40 point Miranda.

I can't get her to where I like her under 43

Plus, with Lowrick and Biggs, it'd Missile Miranda all the way (formation flying) then bombs/regen.. Homing are expensive.

You can just tlt sabine bomblet lrs

4 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Then I have 30-40 points left. And in a Rebel list, that simply does not work.

Maybe Captain Nym can fill that Scurrg-sized hole?

Are Imps REALLY that far off, though?

I think people were just BORED of playing them. There was a 1 to 1.5 year time period where Palp + 2 Aces/X7s was played a lot. That's a LOT of Lambdas stalling in the corner for 3+ rounds (doing this EVERY round in 6+ round tournies).

I think the Palp and X7 changes just gave people an excuse to finally stop playing an archetype they grew bored with.

Boredom and repetition do a lot to lower how well you play ANY game. You do less "trying to win" and more "going through the motions" with certain expected results. At which point you start losing more and get upset you arent getting the same results as before, even though you don't notice that your play involves less critical and creative thinking than before.

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v4!s!139:135,-1,-1,-1,166,237,-1:-1:16:U.127;4:-1,77:-1:20:;251:197,-1,-1:-1:-1:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

You have to drop down to one Cluster Mine but otherwise it's a completely functional bomber Miranda.

3 minutes ago, E Chu Ta said:

Maybe Captain Nym can fill that Scurrg-sized hole?

Giddidy

Also ptl r2d2 tailgunner VT norra

Allv3 options are large n in charge

6 minutes ago, phild0 said:

Are Imps REALLY that far off, though?

I think people were just BORED of playing them. There was a 1 to 1.5 year time period where Palp + 2 Aces/X7s was played a lot. That's a LOT of Lambdas stalling in the corner for 3+ rounds (doing this EVERY round in 6+ round tournies).

I think the Palp and X7 changes just gave people an excuse to finally stop playing an archetype they grew bored with.

Boredom and repetition do a lot to lower how well you play ANY game. You do less "trying to win" and more "going through the motions" with certain expected results.

IMHO, Lightweight Frame doesn't do enough. It's auto-include on Imp Tier 1 and Tier 2 ships (SF and Striker). With the red-dice creep, rolling 3 greens MAX isn't enough.
The reason Quickdraw does so well (besides the title and PS) is that he wants to get hit, so LWF isn't so bad. The others melt too fast to the barrage of TLT (Rebels) and munitions/5-dice attacks (Scum)

Edit: Also, the action economy in the Empire has plummeted since Fel/Inq. and Whisper disappeared, while it has sky-rocketed in the other two factions.

christ I just made this and already I hate it

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v4!s!251:140,201,63:-1:-1:;4:-1,77:-1:20:;139:135,-1,-1,-1,166,-1,237:-1:-1:U.-1&sn=annoying jank&obs=

2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

christ I just made this and already I hate it

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v4!s!251:140,201,63:-1:-1:;4:-1,77:-1:20:;139:135,-1,-1,-1,166,-1,237:-1:-1:U.-1&sn=annoying jank&obs=

Walk us through that Auzi build.......

Okay, I think I got it - but why Crack Shot and not Selflessness?

crackshot cause point left over, ps tie with Biggs and ps 7 isn't significant I guess

Rey cause mods when reinforcing, which you'll always do with the Low ricker, I cannot fly **** that doesn't mod both offense and defense

c3po because goddamn two guaranteed damage canceled (w/ reinforce) per round is hideous

though you could always swap c3po for a breach specialist and slap on predator to use with rey, I like the idea of infuriating opponents with two very difficult to kill ships

Hell, guess 0 with c3po and you can even use Rey's focus defensively to REALLY piss people off

5 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

IMHO, Lightweight Frame doesn't do enough. It's auto-include on Imp Tier 1 and Tier 2 ships (SF and Striker). With the red-dice creep, rolling 3 greens MAX isn't enough.
The reason Quickdraw does so well (besides the title and PS) is that he wants to get hit, so LWF isn't so bad. The others melt too fast to the barrage of TLT (Rebels) and munitions/5-dice attacks (Scum)

Edit: Also, the action economy in the Empire has plummeted since Fel/Inq. and Whisper disappeared, while it has sky-rocketed in the other two factions.

This.

Plus, the other factions have strengthened their powers; Rebels (tanky, flexible, great crew, hard-hitting, regen), and Scum (cheap, maneuverable, hard-hitting, tanky, flexible, great crew, great gimmicks) while for the most part they have also adopted the strengths of the Imperial faction with added prepositioning, evade dice and maneuverability. The Empire now is an over-coppied shell of itself that is now having to rely on Rebel design cast-offs (TIE/SF design, Aggressor design, etc.) to work competitively at all.

9 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

This.

Plus, the other factions have strengthened their powers; Rebels (tanky, flexible, great crew, hard-hitting, regen), and Scum (cheap, maneuverable, hard-hitting, tanky, flexible, great crew, great gimmicks) while for the most part they have also adopted the strengths of the Imperial faction with added prepositioning, evade dice and maneuverability. The Empire now is an over-coppied shell of itself that is now having to rely on Rebel design cast-offs (TIE/SF design, Aggressor design, etc.) to work competitively at all.

There was a short period prior to the x7 nerf that the Decimator filled a lot of needs. But then Scum kept hitting harder and harder and poof, RAC couldn't stay on the table for more than two turns.
Imperials need Kylo's FO Interceptor to be a monster. Some useful crew would be nice, too... Back to roots, I say: unhittable, high PS, and all the modifications.. ****, with how strong Rebel and Scum are, you could give the next Fel a 4-dice primary and there would still be plenty of diversity at the top tables.

42 minutes ago, phild0 said:

Are Imps REALLY that far off, though?

I think people were just BORED of playing them. There was a 1 to 1.5 year time period where Palp + 2 Aces/X7s was played a lot. That's a LOT of Lambdas stalling in the corner for 3+ rounds (doing this EVERY round in 6+ round tournies).

I think the Palp and X7 changes just gave people an excuse to finally stop playing an archetype they grew bored with.

Boredom and repetition do a lot to lower how well you play ANY game. You do less "trying to win" and more "going through the motions" with certain expected results. At which point you start losing more and get upset you arent getting the same results as before, even though you don't notice that your play involves less critical and creative thinking than before.

I think that really is it. 3 Aces or 2 Aces support, and even if there is a long list of aces in those slots, they all end up feeling like the same game.

Tie/SFs are good and can be different enough. What else do you have? Swarm is still mostly dead, bombers aren't good enough, punishers aren't good enough; shuttle, FS, and basic ties have had no update; and the Adv. and interceptor update wasn't good enough.

7 hours ago, Quadjumper King said:

Awesome news, glad to hear someone's began testing some builds and doing well.

Just wondering how many points that Fenn Rau was? Most likely the Skurrg was more expensive (I can't see how it wouldn't be....). It's all well and good to beat something worth less points by positioning yourself in a favourable confrontation but how does it do against similarly costed ships.

glad to hear your testing the Skurrg, do you think 39 points is the optimum build price or does that seem to be overloading it?

Standard 32 point fenn. And sure, a 39 point ship should beat a 32 point ship (in general), except I was ALSO facing off with dengar, it's not like it was a straight 1v1. Either way, bomblets that drop after he moves and accuracy corrector + autoblaster make protectorates sad (I also beat up on old fennaroo with the list).

And for nym, I think the 39 point build is probably about optimum. To go cheaper you're losing the system (or going for a cheaper one, which is less useful), the turret, or both.

2 hours ago, Thormind said:

And most people want the scums to get stuff that are equal in power lvl to what the other 2 factions get. Also Imperials dont need OP stuff, just some more unique upgrades to be on par with scums/rebels. For example they missed a great opportunity to do that by not making Intensity Imperial only. Would that have made the faction OP? Not at all. Once again the faction is the only one to not get anything unique.

I agree imperials could use more imperial-only upgrades. On the other hand, that probably does nothing to make them more powerful in the current meta unless those upgrades brnig them up to jumpmaster powerlevels, which is back to being a problem. As for making intensity imperial only, they're probably the faction with the worst options for actually using the card.

2 hours ago, Thormind said:

How long did it take for people to find out how good the Caster was? How long to discover Paratanni? Dengaroo? How long before Sabine really made a mark on the meta? From what i see every time i log on Vassal the number of players is never really high. On top of that at least 50% of the players try builds that arent really competitive. Maybe there is something im not aware of, like alternative servers (serious question, id really like to know if there are :)?

There was no massive drive to FIND paratanni or dengaroo right away because triple scouts were already dominating things as an OP squad. I'm well aware that really good squads can come up later, but they're frequently found before release on vassal unless there's ANOTHER OP squad found first (like deadeye scouts).

And there's not always a ton of players on vassal at once, but I don't think I've ever logged on to vassal when there was NO ONE online.

2 hours ago, Thormind said:

Have you tried the built i talked about (generic scuurg, PTL Fenn , classic scout)? I have not tested it yet but id like to try the same built with a " cad bane " scout. Im not sure it would work because at 33pts theres not enoughe to add plasma trop with the bombs.

I haven't tried that build yet. Partly because I'm busy smashing people with Nym. And personally I'm not sure I think the generic build is going to be the optimal one. I'll be testing out a cad bane scout at 39 points probbaly in my next game (alongside the same 39 point nym). Mostly debating whether to keep chips or go for burnout slam + adv slam or EI...

2 hours ago, Thormind said:

I was giving examples as to why the ships defense for it's cost is really good. The Scuurg also has many other advantages that are added on top of the good defense and no drawback. I see people saying its a fragile ship with crap defense. Its not. The YT is IMO the perfect example of what a balanced ship should be. Remove all the OP crap we have now and it's perfectly balanced. It still see play and it's still quite competitive. It managed top 4 at the world champ just last year. If a top 16 is an indication of balance then a top 4 is...? :-)

It's 1 agility without the defensive boosts you get with ships like miranda (built in regen), norra (access to r2d2 droid, plus her ability), etc. Rebel nym can get c3po or r2d2 crew if you want. Scum scurrgs dont' even get that. If you shoot them, they WILL take damage.

2 hours ago, Thormind said:

I dont know why you would ignore major tournaments with high number of players and the best ones participating. A lot of the best players actually help FFG test changes to the game and were aware of the last changes much earlier that everyone else. Even if you do pass the biggest events, you cant ignore the fact that Imperials have been on a major decline in overall ranking since the FAQ. 1 good ship doesnt mean they can make viable builds. The stats prove just that. Also in a three faction game, the best ship of one of them is in 6th position and you find that balanced? That same faction only has 1 ship in the top 10 and it's not a major drop? Even with 1 good ship they cant manage to make a top 10 built and they are almost balanced? The rebels were nowhere near as underpowered as the Imperials are now and many players were complaining...

Becasue as I've repeatedly pointed out, the system opens were basically right after the nerf (2 of them were literally that weekend), worlds was a couple months later, but it took imperials a long time to get back on their feet and figure out how to actualy fly something different that palp + 2 ships. And there was a lot of people that just dropped imperials completely and switched to the OP scum stuff instead of even trying to find imperial options that worked. Similar to how whisper dispapeared from the meta overnight with the decloak nerf, despite the fact that she's *still really good*. It took her like a year or more to start showing back up. Even still, imperials made the cut at 2 of the 3 opens and at worlds. Not with a lot of lists, and definitely behind the others, but they were there. And again, there were quite a few imperials at day 2 of worlds as well.

And once again, they've been doing well in store championships since then. part of my problem with the major tournaments is that there haven't been any MORE of them since worlds. So we could pretend store champs dont exist and just go by worlds and the system opens (that are months old at this point), or we could actually look at how the meta is evolving since then. Once we hit gencon and other big tournaments, then we can start discussing if imperials are STILL suffering.

As for the best ship in one fation being in the 6h position, it's PILOTS not ships. Quickdraw is the number 6 pilot, the TIE/Sf isn't the number 6 ship. The top 5 pilots are fenn, dengar, scout, asajj and tel. Nerf the jumpmaster, and quickdraw has the potential to jump to number 3. And the first rebel pilot is miranda at #8, so if you went by that alone, rebels are worse off than empire.

As far as actual ships, the TIE/SF is in the #4 spot, behindt he 3 scum ones. K-wing is #5. TIE Defender is #7, and TIE Fighter is #10, so they hardly have "1 ship in the top 10". They have 3, which is almost the definition of balanced (One third of 10 is 3 1/3, so 3-4 in the top 10 is as close as you can get). Rebels also have 3, though one is the attack shuttle, which is sort of a special case most of hte time it's not doing anything on it's own.

2 hours ago, Thormind said:

I believe what bothers most of us is all the good scum ships dont really feel/look like the movies material. I did buy scum products while waiting for a fix but i would prefer to play with "classic" Star Wars ships. Also always seeing the same builds again and again is getting really boring.

Some of us actually LIKE scum. The StarViper is my favorite ship int he game (so I'm quite glad it's getting a buff finally), and I played Star Wars galaxies as a freelancer pilot for years, which is where we got other ships from (scyk and kihraxz), so I enjoy getting to put those on the table as well (yay for those gettnig fixes too...). On the other hand, I've never flown paratanni, deadeye scouts, or dengar tel.

Just because YOU don't care about scum doesn't mean other people don't like them or want to fly them. As for seeing the same builds over and over again, how is that different from the other factions? How long was the imperial faction nothing but palp aces? Then commonwealth defenders or triple defenders? How long has dash/miranda been a thing?

2 hours ago, LordBlades said:

Just curious, what do you run with Nym ?

I've been running Sol Sixxa with cad bane, autoblaster, VI and bombs (specific bomb loadout has varied. I've done double cluster, cluster/proxy, double proxy, next game will be proxy + thermal det with extra munitions). And long range scanners because why not. Then a cartel marauder with tracers, chips, and varying other upgrades (slicer tools/munitions failure, sometimes PRS, one or two games with feedback array/prs. depends on sol's build for how many ponits I have).