6 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

Yes, tell me about our lord and savior the Gunboat!

FTFY

22 hours ago, Biophysical said:

The ultimate weapon is the loyal and skilled Imperial Pilot.

...especially those noble heroes from Rho Squadron, ever ready to lend fast support when the Empire is in need.

14 hours ago, Quadjumper King said:

Blasphemy

Not in my religion.

2 hours ago, DodgingArcs said:

Also not released at the time were Expertise, Pattern Analyser, Primed Thrusters and Targeting Synchroniser. These along with LWF added a whole lot of versatility to the SF, making it one of the most customisable small ships (outside of Miranda) in the game.

When it released the Tech Slot was pretty meh for it. Comm Relay it couldn't use, Weapons Guidance and Sensor Cluster both just a little bit average for their cost.

It probably did require people putting it on the board and seeing how it flew. Turns out it's really fun to fly.

Yeah. It's the rule of ships with lots of upgrade slots: they just keep getting better as new sets are released.

2 hours ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

Quickdraw also required a bit of figuring out - in the early days all people could see was the Rage/Baffle combo and that is a bit underwhelming (can be really good, but other builds have had more success). The move towards a more Dengar-like playstyle was very important for her.

I'd say the decline of doube-repositioning arc dodgers also pushed her more toward incidental rather than planned usage if her ability.

I would also like to encourage everyone worried about bombs that skill is the primary deciding factor in whether or not you get bombed

because, turns out, bombs are 10,000% positioning dependent and you can learn how to fly around them

or just away from them, because it's hard for a ship to bomb out their *** when no one is behind them. The aggressor and plucky SF are perfect for this

7 hours ago, Biophysical said:

SFs really carry the flame hope for the Imperial faction. It's weird considering how unimpressed people were when they dropped. I know Lightweight Frame wasn't out yet, but I find it hard to argue that a sometime extra green die is the difference maker between "meh" and "premier asskicker in the Imperial fleet".

On 6/17/2017 at 5:49 PM, GeneralBergfrühling said:

Cool Redline gets even more expensive now ... as if he isn't already the worst point pit. And unless there is a System Upgrade that generates a focus token, Tie Bombers are the choice for Unguided Rockets. Minefield Mapper is a neat gimmick for fun games. No fix for the Tie Punisher ... next!

Yes.....Redline can spend 0 pts for Minefield Mapper. Or....3 pts for UNLIMITED BOMBS. Yes. He can be more expensive, but it's worth it.

You say "this is no fix for the Tie Punisher", but the only thing you offer up is that Redline is more expensive? As if....Redline is the only Tie Punisher in existence and putting more points on him is a horrible thing. You....don't explain yourself at all.

EDIT: Further thinking.....you picked Redline....who is the one Tie Punisher pilot who probably gets the least out of the latest stuff. So....you picked the worst example of how the Tie Punisher is fixed by the latest stuff. Deathrain absolutely loves all the upgrades. The generics are actually a thought now.

On ‎18‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 1:24 PM, ficklegreendice said:

I would also like to encourage everyone worried about bombs that skill is the primary deciding factor in whether or not you get bombed

because, turns out, bombs are 10,000% positioning dependent and you can learn how to fly around them

or just away from them, because it's hard for a ship to bomb out their *** when no one is behind them.

For the bulk of bombers, yes. The fly up/overfly SLAM/mine drop signature of a K-wing is still annoying, though.

But, yeah. Bombs are deal-able with. Certainly drop-on-reveal bombs are - a TIE interceptor which essentially lands directly on the bomb token can boost/barrel roll out of the blast radius (alright, you've then got no tokens if someone has a shot at you too, but whaddya want, the moon on a stick?).

Personally, I've been getting used to 5 TIE strikers (Because massed, articulated wingspan). 'Heavy Swarms' with 5 ships with three attack dice are surprisingly effective, especially when you can keep up with the boosting large ship crowd without loosing your tokens.

I'd definitely agree with TIE bombers as the default choice for unguided rockets (rockets + lightweight frame makes a scimitar 20 points, making it an option as a bloody tough heavy swarm ship)if you want them as a primary weapon, but unguided rockets are also useful as an add-in for a cheap minelayer cutlass squadron, because after you've emptied your minefield map proximity mines (or whatever), investing those two points means you're still left with what's essentially a B-wing rather than a TIE bomber.

29 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Yes.....Redline can spend 0 pts for Minefield Mapper. Or....3 pts for UNLIMITED BOMBS. Yes. He can be more expensive, but it's worth it.

You say "this is no fix for the Tie Punisher", but the only thing you offer up is that Redline is more expensive? As if....Redline is the only Tie Punisher in existence and putting more points on him is a horrible thing. You....don't explain yourself at all.

EDIT: Further thinking.....you picked Redline....who is the one Tie Punisher pilot who probably gets the least out of the latest stuff. So....you picked the worst example of how the Tie Punisher is fixed by the latest stuff. Deathrain absolutely loves all the upgrades. The generics are actually a thought now.

Unfortunately Redline does seem to have beneficited the least from this new release as his ability doesn't really lend itself to unguided rockets or Bomblet generator. He can still be used effectively though and with Minefield mapping as a one off you don't have to worry about him dying before he drops bombs and he can still take a missile/torpedo and be effective.

It seems to me that generics and lower tier unique ability pilots are often overlooked due to some sort of "if the best pilot can't be used the ships a dud" mentality. The generic Cutlass squaddies actually seem pretty cool now and Deathrain can make Bomblet generator sing (and maybe get a pre-position barrel roll?) plus with LWF and Unguided rockets it seems he has some staying power in a joust (same applies for the generics).

This lack of creativity has to be the most bugging thing about this fandom, people I know personally as great pilots just choose to ignore anything not proven by the "meta". Come on @GeneralBergfrühling Where's the innovation? Where's the "crazy list that just might work". Dont be afraid to be "that guy" who brought a Punisher,

Dont be afraid to try something just because it doesn't have obvious synergy, if you want to use the ship use it, practise it and refine it. Just find whatever cards are needed to polish it up and make it sing.

TLDR:

If you have a hammer, start looking for nails.

47 minutes ago, Quadjumper King said:

Unfortunately Redline does seem to have beneficited the least from this new release as his ability doesn't really lend itself to unguided rockets or Bomblet generator. He can still be used effectively though and with Minefield mapping as a one off you don't have to worry about him dying before he drops bombs and he can still take a missile/torpedo and be effective.

It seems to me that generics and lower tier unique ability pilots are often overlooked due to some sort of "if the best pilot can't be used the ships a dud" mentality. The generic Cutlass squaddies actually seem pretty cool now and Deathrain can make Bomblet generator sing (and maybe get a pre-position barrel roll?) plus with LWF and Unguided rockets it seems he has some staying power in a joust (same applies for the generics).

Yes, I didn't have the time to go into all that, but it's exactly what I was thinking. Redline is the Punisher pilot who gained the least, but that doesn't mean he didn't gain. The ability to drop unlimited bombs is there. The ability to drop Bombs on Turn Zero is there. You usually don't put points into him for Bombs, but you might want to. Perhaps not the best build, but not horrible.

Yep, Deathrain loves everything, but probably Deathrain with just Unguided Rockets, Bomblet Generator, LWF, and Adv Sensors is a cheap, easy, ship that's really effective.

I also agree on the Cutlass Squadie.

Quote

This lack of creativity has to be the most bugging thing about this fandom, people I know personally as great pilots just choose to ignore anything not proven by the "meta". Come on... Where's the innovation? Where's the "crazy list that just might work". Don't be afraid to be "that guy" who brought a Punisher,

Yes....it's enough to annoy one quite a bit. If you listened to it long enough, you might even want to start a podcast to talk about all the things that no one talks about....

On 6/17/2017 at 2:14 AM, heychadwick said:

The Tie Punisher is about to get a lot better. People should not dismiss it out of hand by saying "Tie Punishers are terrible". You might want to try flying them with all the various fixes. There are a lot of them. You can use either Bomblet Generator or Minefield Mapper to improve your Bomb slots. Unguided Rockets works for any Punisher, but Redline. Redline can use the Bomblet Generator every turn and actually use his Bomb slots. Advanced Sensors on Deathfire will let you Boost before using Bomblet Generator and then get a free Barrel Roll.

Just got 3rd place with two generic punishers and a palp shuttle. Could have won the whole darn thing, but I failed on a tractor beam which could have put fenn on a prox mine.

On 2017-06-17 at 2:14 AM, heychadwick said:

The Tie Punisher is about to get a lot better. People should not dismiss it out of hand by saying "Tie Punishers are terrible". You might want to try flying them with all the various fixes. There are a lot of them. You can use either Bomblet Generator or Minefield Mapper to improve your Bomb slots. Unguided Rockets works for any Punisher, but Redline. Redline can use the Bomblet Generator every turn and actually use his Bomb slots. Advanced Sensors on Deathfire will let you Boost before using Bomblet Generator and then get a free Barrel Roll.

And then the ship still has one of the worst dial in the game, is overcosted, has no EPT and no turret. You really think 3 red dices that you cant reroll in any way is viable in the current meta??

6 minutes ago, Thormind said:

And then the ship still has one of the worst dial in the game, is overcosted, has no EPT and no turret. You really think 3 red dices that you cant reroll in any way is viable in the current meta??

more viable than 2 dice

but honestly, agreed. The poor punisher is still stupidly overpriced, has no special bombing gimmick (outside of Deathrain, constrast with Ks who all have adv. SLAM) and is in need of a title fix in order to hack it in the current meta

which is sad, because they're glorious with the proper repaint

holy **** that was over a year ago, why does time fly so fast!?

10 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

more viable than 2 dice

but honestly, agreed. The poor punisher is still stupidly overpriced, has no special bombing gimmick (outside of Deathrain, constrast with Ks who all have adv. SLAM) and is in need of a title fix in order to hack it in the current meta

which is sad, because they're glorious with the proper repaint

holy **** that was over a year ago, why does time fly so fast!?

Yeah, the ship looks really good. I think thats part of the reason why so many of us want it fixed. Another thing that bugs me with wave 11 so far is the Imperials once again dont get any unique upgrade while the two other factions get good ones. They could have made Intensity Imperial Only for example...

yeah but intensity is incredibly bleh

guess we get more lightweight frame and 4 PS 5 TLTs which is relevant for all the scouts running around

Ketsal is also unique in that her ability could theoretically one-shot a fang with a missile, but easier said than done with TL restrictions (since you need the focus and can't get extra without Hux)

well, unique or not, at least the Aggressor is the perfect counter to bomb shenanigans so that's a way for FFG to encourage us to buy it

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v4!s!208:220,36,-1,-1:42:31:;209:27,36,-1,203:42:31:;260:214,135,-1,-1:-1:31:&sn=can't bomb what you can't catch!&obs=

really hilarious how many people considered the SF DOA when it came out and now are basically worshiping that thing...

Not just the forums, local meta too. I used Backdraft immediately and got so much flak for using that "terrible and squishy ship" only to get stunned surprises when backdraft completely ravaged everyone. Ive made people hate that guy with a fiery passion lol. Easily my most used imperial ship, with Sabaac being a runnerup.

I still largely use imperials because i find Rebels to be stale atm and Scum are either trollololol bad or so broken a 3yrold could probably win worlds with them, thus no challenge and no fun.
Imperials suffer right now because most of our tactics involve arcdodging or lots of green dice - issue with that is obviously theres a ton of things to counter arcdodging now and green dice love giving you the middle finger at the worst possible time. So rather than out-evade the opponent we must now out-smart them, and most people cant do that because they dont plan ahead very well or at all. The SF is a pristine ship for outsmarting your opponent since he can cut off in a direction he cant be followed and still get shots, and Strikers can turn more than people expect so they have a habit of catching people off guard as well.

Quote

really hilarious how many people considered the SF DOA when it came out and now are basically worshiping that thing...

To be fair, it was.

But LWF (and in part, PA) changed that.

Except i literally never use LWF on backdraft, its Mk2 engines all the way
The ability to 3bank and clear stress has saved his butt far FAR more than that potential third evade die (which i usually dont get anyway due to range3 or obstructed if hes flown properly)
Will admit though, LWF helps quickdraw. Her flight pattern goes against the SF's strength, the aux arc, because until shes out of shields she wants the deadlier front arc facing her targets.

3 minutes ago, Keffisch said:

To be fair, it was.

But LWF (and in part, PA) changed that.

eh, I've always loved Backdraft even before the x7 errata. Couldn't stomach flying 3 x7 because it was so dull , and Backdraft was a great bit of variety for very few points over a delta (not as defensive, but packed a far greater punch and FCS worked so well with Vess). Primed thrusters have made him even harder to pin down, though, as 3-turns into barrel rolls dodges formations real well, and even leaves you open to arc-dodge further since it doesn't lock you into greens

Now Quickdraw just exploded onto the scene thanks to Lightweight and Expertise it seems. That seems to have made her a super legit mini-dengar

1 minute ago, Vineheart01 said:

Except i literally never use LWF on backdraft, its Mk2 engines all the way
The ability to 3bank and clear stress has saved his butt far FAR more than that potential third evade die (which i usually dont get anyway due to range3 or obstructed if hes flown properly)

And while BD is great (insane even), QD w. LWF is the one we see the most of, because of PS 9 & the revenge shot.

2 hours ago, Thormind said:

And then the ship still has one of the worst dial in the game, is overcosted, has no EPT and no turret. You really think 3 red dices that you cant reroll in any way is viable in the current meta??

I think in the meta in about 6 months from now, yes. It's more about the bombs, really. Also, while they can't re-roll those 3 dice, they can still modify. TL's are about as equal as Focus.

i wouldnt say the punisher has a bad dial...

What exactly makes you think its bad? The lack of a 1turn? Big whoop, you wouldnt want to do that when youre dropping Reveal bombs anyway.
It has an "average" dial. Nothing amazing, nothing really bad. Its issue has and always will be the fact that it HAS to joust to do anything and it super, super easy to remove a 9hp 1agi ship thats trying to joust - with the upcoming infinite reveal bomb and unguided missiles it can now use its action for Boosting to dodge an arc if its too close for comfort or fire a 3die range3 shot that denies bonus green dice if its at a distance on top of now it basically has 2agi thanks to LWF.

I doubt it will become the most important imperial ship. Its still pushing 40pts and lacks any super heavy hitting attacks or godly evasive maneuvers that such ships costing that much usually sport. But it will definitely become playable and fairly competitive, which is all i care about. If it can function at a base level i can find a way to use it, and currently it literally cant do anything a bomber wouldnt do better/cheaper...but come wave11 that changes.

5 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

i wouldnt say the punisher has a bad dial...

What exactly makes you think its bad? The lack of a 1turn? Big whoop, you wouldnt want to do that when youre dropping Reveal bombs anyway.
It has an "average" dial. Nothing amazing, nothing really bad. Its issue has and always will be the fact that it HAS to joust to do anything and it super, super easy to remove a 9hp 1agi ship thats trying to joust - with the upcoming infinite reveal bomb and unguided missiles it can now use its action for Boosting to dodge an arc if its too close for comfort or fire a 3die range3 shot that denies bonus green dice if its at a distance on top of now it basically has 2agi thanks to LWF.

I doubt it will become the most important imperial ship. Its still pushing 40pts and lacks any super heavy hitting attacks or godly evasive maneuvers that such ships costing that much usually sport. But it will definitely become playable and fairly competitive, which is all i care about. If it can function at a base level i can find a way to use it, and currently it literally cant do anything a bomber wouldnt do better/cheaper...but come wave11 that changes.

Have you played with the ship? Try it for one or 2 match and you will understand. Even if i explain (and i will) theres is nothing like hands on experience.

Now why is it bad:

- It can only make white turn at speed 3.

- It only has 4 green move and they are all slow.

- The fastest it can go is at speed 3

- The dial would be only OK if the ship had a turret upgrade or a PWT.

Lets compare that to the Scurrg:

- The ability to turn are similar but Scurrg is at speed 2. No winner here.

- 5 green move and 1 is at speed 3.

- Talon rolls are much more flexible than kturn.

- It can go up to speed 4 on white maneuver and 5 if you take a stress. Its way faster.

- All of that on a ship that has a turret so a little less in need of mobility.

What is making it worst is both dials look like they would be more appropriate for the other ship...

9 minutes ago, Thormind said:

What is making it worst is both dials look like they would be more appropriate for the other ship...

This

The Empire will get reinforcements. But only if we shift-r!!! (and press space afterwards).

Rho Squadron will be there for US .


Gunboat.

On 6/20/2017 at 9:33 AM, Thormind said:

Another thing that bugs me with wave 11 so far is the Imperials once again dont get any unique upgrade while the two other factions get good ones.

Isn't Unguided Rockets Imperial only? I mean, not on card, but due to 2 Missile slots only being on Imp ships. Or am I forgetting something?