2 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

add a title that -1 point for each upgrade to a minimum of 0 and then we can call it good.

That would make it crazy good, for sure!

1 hour ago, Rakaydos said:

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (21)
Minefield Mapper (0)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Cluster Mines (4)
Cluster Mines (4)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (21)
Minefield Mapper (0)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Cluster Mines (4)
Cluster Mines (4)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (21)
Minefield Mapper (0)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Cluster Mines (4)
Cluster Mines (4)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Drop 1 cluster mine and you can upgrade a cutlass to Deathrain, then give him EM instead of unguided rockets (or LWF, whichever)

39 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I think the multi layered fix for the Tie Punisher should include:

Bomblet generator and mapper don't really work well together

4 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Oh, I'm not saying that the Tie Punisher will be "broken", but it will be better. I've got a friend who will be laughing at all the new toys. He's quite good with Tie Punishers.

Do not take it personally ! I just joking people who will said in a next topic "this will break meta" or "the sky is falling again"

That the point, people who like/love punisher is happy with these news toys and have more reason to play with them !

1 minute ago, Rakaydos said:

My list deploys 6 mines turn 0, your only deploys 3.

I guess I misunderstood how EM & Minefield Mapper work. Doesn't Extra Munitions let you deploy just the same as having the actual mine, but saving you points?

It's going to be fun either way.

Just now, VanderLegion said:

Bomblet generator and mapper don't really work well together

Of course not, but that doesn't mean that they aren't both fixes for the Tie Punisher. You can now have......CHOICES!

Just now, heychadwick said:

Of course not, but that doesn't mean that they aren't both fixes for the Tie Punisher. You can now have......CHOICES!

Choices?!?!?! Totally overrated. Aren't we supposed to staple our upgrade cards to the pilots using them?

1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

The nice thing is that between the bomblet generator and unguided rockets, you get infinite booms out of both ends, with no need for extra munitions or guidance chips.

Dont forget the empty mod slot for Lightweight Frame AKA (Sorry guys we didn't realize all Imps needed three agility to be useful)

Just now, Force Majeure said:

I guess I misunderstood how EM & Minefield Mapper work. Doesn't Extra Munitions let you deploy just the same as having the actual mine, but saving you points?

It's going to be fun either way.

Minefield mapper is 1 effect that deployes all your bombs... but you only actually have 1 bomb. Just because you dont discard it the first time doesnt let you discard it twice to the same trigger, just like Laats Razi cant get multiple evades from clearing multiple stress.

1 minute ago, Force Majeure said:

I guess I misunderstood how EM & Minefield Mapper work. Doesn't Extra Munitions let you deploy just the same as having the actual mine, but saving you points?

It's going to be fun either way.

I think it's up for debate, but I believe it will allow you to use the Extra Munitions mine as well. Did you see that one list that had 3 Tie Punishers? You can put a ring of 12 Cluster Missiles around some deployed ships!

Just now, heychadwick said:

I think it's up for debate, but I believe it will allow you to use the Extra Munitions mine as well. Did you see that one list that had 3 Tie Punishers? You can put a ring of 12 Cluster Missiles around some deployed ships!

Can Laats/Assaj get multiple evades from clearing 2 stress off a single ship in 1 shot?

4 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I think it's up for debate, but I believe it will allow you to use the Extra Munitions mine as well. Did you see that one list that had 3 Tie Punishers? You can put a ring of 12 Cluster Missiles around some deployed ships!

I actually made the original image (with the a-wing) of the cluster missile ring, but after looking at it more/thinknig about it, I think the arguemtn that you can't do both the EM token and the bomb card itself is correct, so you'll only be able to drop 2 per punisher, then keep 2 for the actual match.

3 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

Can Laats/Assaj get multiple evades from clearing 2 stress off a single ship in 1 shot?

I'll leave the arguments to those that know the rules better.

Minefield Mapper:
"During Setup, after the "Place Forces" step, you may discard any number of your equipped [bomb] Upgrade cards. Place all corresponding bomb tokens in the play area beyond Range 3 of enemy ships . "

Extra Munitions:
" When you equip this card, place 1 ordnance token on each equipped [torpedo], [missile] and [bomb] Upgrade card. When you are instructed to discard an Upgrade card, you may discard 1 ordnance token on that card instead.

Cluster Mines:
" Action: Discard this card to drop 3 cluster mine tokens."

I still think Extra Munitions is going to let you place both sets of mines during the "Place Forces" step, but I hope there's official clarification at some point.

1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

I think the multi layered fix for the Tie Punisher should include:

YAH... TOOT-TOOT!!!

39 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Oh, I'm not saying that the Tie Punisher will be "broken", but it will be better. I've got a friend who will be laughing at all the new toys. He's quite good with Tie Punishers.

I hear there's a mission as well?

I love this expansion, I am hoping to [insert deity or lack thereof here] that we will see some punishers at the next tournament, hell I'd be down for a bombing meta, using actual skill to avoid obstacles and strategically planning moves or deployments ahead for bomb dropping. Against bombs evades and tokens don't matter, so we may see the fall of attani mindlink or other token using lists... but probably not. This does at least seem like it will shake up the meta a little.

Any word on how the generic Havoc pilot is priced against a generic Punisher pilot? If the punishers cheaper than imperials actually do have a chance at being at least as good with this trick as the other factions and with deathrain we could have a solid showing as the bombs become harder to dodge.

Who else would be down for a bombing meta? Unless it's way more broken than I thought it would at least be somewhat more enjoyable than "Attani meta" even if only because it's different for a short while until I hate this too).

i am indeed HYPED.

1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

Also the Mist Hunter with Cad Bane.

Oh - I hadn't twigged!

Yeah! I've been wishing for a way to get a bomb onto a G1A... just a shame it's a unique way.

Arg! My first double...!

49 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

Minefield Mapper:
"During Setup, after the "Place Forces" step, you may discard any number of your equipped [bomb] Upgrade cards. Place all corresponding bomb tokens in the play area beyond Range 3 of enemy ships . "

Extra Munitions:
" When you equip this card, place 1 ordnance token on each equipped [torpedo], [missile] and [bomb] Upgrade card. When you are instructed to discard an Upgrade card, you may discard 1 ordnance token on that card instead.

Cluster Mines:
" Action: Discard this card to drop 3 cluster mine tokens."

I still think Extra Munitions is going to let you place both sets of mines during the "Place Forces" step, but I hope there's official clarification at some point.

A plain English reading of the cards would say that EM works. But I wouldn't be surprised him it was errated to not be the case. That said; even if you did take three Punishers and dropped dozens of CMs before the start of combat; you're opponent is still only facing three Punishers. Once they're through the ring of death, you're still ******.

29 minutes ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

A plain English reading of the cards would say that EM works. But I wouldn't be surprised him it was errated to not be the case. That said; even if you did take three Punishers and dropped dozens of CMs before the start of combat; you're opponent is still only facing three Punishers. Once they're through the ring of death, you're still ******.

Yeah, it's a useful and inrigueing gimmick, but that's all it is. It can help with list control and movement control however it's only useful early game (other than the ability to go through it or use it as an obstacle with the Skurrg).

I think that deploying one or two mines to cut off movement will help in deployment but that's the beauty of the card you "may" use the ability. If you want to save the bombs for combat than you can however for a zero point upgrade you have the ability to determine whether you want to save some bombs for battle or cut off jousting lanes (or entire areas of the field for lower health ships) that's what makes it worthwhile to attempt a list with all those bombs.

Yeah its an interesting tactic to say the least to spam deployment of bombs however I don't think that's the only gimmick of the list. And with unguided rockets + LWF the Punishers are potentially able to hold their own if they can force the opponents ships to split up via Mindfield mapping.

Mindfield mapping is pretty versatile as you can completely ignore it or abuse it depending on your matchup however you would need to learn a larger number of flying patterns than most lists to compensate all matches. It's an upgrade of opportunity that costs nothing (except obviously the system slot) and can create mayhem for opponents.

do we know the limitations of where the bombs can be placed? I assume there's a range limit of two from either sides of deployment (though probably not the neutral edges)...

12 minutes ago, Quadjumper King said:

do we know the limitations of where the bombs can be placed? I assume there's a range limit of two from either sides of deployment (though probably not the neutral edges)...

Anywhere you could have deployed HotR Han- anywhere on the map outside of range 3 from the enemy. And they explicitly show deploying them to block the range 2 "safe zone" on the edge of the map.

I just played a game involving a Palp Oicunn and Whisper, against my Fel and two cutlasses. The Cutlasses were superb. I closed off all the lanes with mines at the beginning, and kept some in reserve, and dragged oicunn around the map. whisper decloaked on to a mine by mistake and was forced to use k-turns to turn around because of the mined corridors.

the most freedom I've felt flying an interceptor for a long, long time.
End game state shown below with the paths of oicunn and fel overlaid.

3 hours ago, Sasajak said:

The "fix" is it now has a niche in the Imperial arsenal. I've not been taking Punishers because TIE Bombers can do everything a Punisher can do but cheaper. With the 0 point Minefield Mapper the Punisher has a unique and attractive selling point.

Agreed. The TIE-Bomber also does not have access to Bomblet Generator.

I'm not convinced that the TIE-Punisher is "fixed," but it's actually usable now... which is a HUGE improvement from before. Once you equip LWF onto a TIE-Punisher, it's actually tankier than a Scurrg for 1pt cheaper. The problem is still that stupid 2-ATK primary. Unguided Rockets are actually good on the generics, but I imagine Deathrain may still want to be using his boost combined with Advanced Sensors to have as much bomb coverage as possible. Redline is still SoL, but at least he has cheap free bombs.

Overall, I'd say that the Cutlass Squadron Pilots are looking pretty close to "fixed" when very specifically using the infinite ordnance cards, but everyone else still needs a bump in power, ESPECIALLY Redline.

3 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

Can Laats/Assaj get multiple evades from clearing 2 stress off a single ship in 1 shot?

I think you are missing a very important part of minefield mapper. " you may discard any number of your equipped bomb Upgrade cards." Laats does not say any number, she has a specific wording stating how many you can,"you may remove 1 stress token from the attacker to add 1 evade result". Then we look at EM, "When you are instructed to discard an Upgrade card, you may discard 1 ordnance token on that card instead." If we are to take your ruling for it, we would only be able to drop one mine from a ship regardless of how it is equiped. But because mapper has the word any in it, it is allowing the max or none to be dropped from selected ship. I see where you are trying to get at with it, but the wording as is, allows it.

5 minutes ago, Hujoe Bigs said:

I think you are missing a very important part of minefield mapper. " you may discard any number of your equipped bomb Upgrade cards." Laats does not say any number, she has a specific wording stating how many you can,"you may remove 1 stress token from the attacker to add 1 evade result". Then we look at EM, "When you are instructed to discard an Upgrade card, you may discard 1 ordnance token on that card instead." If we are to take your ruling for it, we would only be able to drop one mine from a ship regardless of how it is equiped. But because mapper has the word any in it, it is allowing the max or none to be dropped from selected ship. I see where you are trying to get at with it, but the wording as is, allows it.

That then makes you ask, "How many bomb upgrade cards do I have equipped?"

Can I choose a number of bomb upgrades greater than I have equipped?

If I have 2 Cluster Mines equipped, with Extra Munitions, can I choose "4?" I would argue that the "any number" there has to be equal to or less than the number of bombs you have equipped. Then you can interrupt with EM to discard tokens instead of cards, but the window for choosing the number of bombs is already passed.