Hey,

Obviously inspired by the Scurrg bomber preview. I want to preface this thread by saying that I don't want at all to dampen the enthusiasm of those who like bombs or the look of the new expansion. As such, this is not a complaint or nerf thread, and I request that it please stay positive.

That being said, I was a little dismayed to see Cad Bane, who I realize gives redundancy to the technology (Sabine) that is keeping some of my favourite ships, the TIE Interceptors, down, and signals that that strategy won't be reduced in potency any time soon (even if Sabine were to receive a nerf, Cad Bane would still be there).

My understanding (I wasn't playing then) is that when turrets proved to be too much for low-health, high-maneuverability ships to be able to handle, Autothrusters was created to keep them in the game, which worked. If FFG were to apply the same tactic to restore those ships to the game once more, without reducing the viability of bombs with a nerf, what would such a card look like? I imagine it would be packaged with something like the plausible First Order TIE Interceptor expansion.

My first instinct was to say it shouldn't be a modification*, as that would interfere with Autothrusters, which are still necessary. However, I realized that the primary ship being kept down by bombs is the TIE Interceptor, which can equip two modifications. This would still preclude the use of Stealth Device or Targeting Computer, but perhaps that would help balance the ship preemptively, by reducing the green-dice-based near-invincibility the ship used to enjoy. On the other hand, without Targeting Computers, the ship might not be able to keep up with the offence of other, modern options and remain lackluster. Further, the TIE Advanced Prototype would remain a casualty of the bombs. What do you think?

* (I suppose it has to be a modification, as there's no other slot (including title) for it to be equipped to for the TIE Interceptor or TIE Advanced Prototype. The question, then, is whether it should have text allowing you to equip an additional modification or not.)

I'm not confident enough in my understanding of the game to propose text too seriously, but here are some thoughts (at various degrees of power) to get discussion going. Card text will not be templated correctly, just roughed in.

1. When you would take damage from a bomb, first roll your defence dice and compare results. You may modify your dice as normal. [I assume this is the most powerful and probably too powerful.]

2. When you take damage from a bomb, discard the first face-down damage card. [Sort of a reverse Sabine, though obviously it can reduce more than one damage per turn, especially across your ships.]

3. When your maneuver template overlaps a bomb token, that bomb does not detonate. [Only affects some types of bombs. Still permits detonation from base overlap.]

4. When your opponent rolls damage dice for a bomb that would affect this ship, he or she rerolls one [hit] result. [Only affects some types of bombs. Sort of a reverse Cad Bane.]

5. When your opponent rolls damage dice for a bomb that would affect this ship, cancel one [crit] result. [Only affects some types of bombs. Swingy.]

Does anyone have any thoughts on either the idea or any of the suggestions, or any new suggestions?

Thanks for reading.

New Title

Imperial Ace: Tie only

Your ship gains a system slot

System Upgrade: Mine Sweeper

When a bomb or mine overlaps your ship or template roll one defense die. On an evade result the bomb does not detonate and remains where it is until another detonation would occur.

Basically it makes ties psuedo mini Dashes. The only achillese heal is end of turn bombs. Maybe make them delay a turn or force a munitions failure upgrade kind of thing. It's a dud bomb but they get to keep the stock.

Defensive Emperor.

When you roll for clusters/bomblets, declare blank.

Evasive Thrusters

Small Ship Only.

Once per turn after you receive a damage card from a non-weapon source, discard that damage card without effect.

Helps against Vader, Bombs and Sabine. It lets the bombs take down shields and only starts kicking it at Hull.

My wording might stop Kylo but that isn't the intention.

3 hours ago, DodgingArcs said:

Evasive Thrusters

Small Ship Only.

Once per turn after you receive a damage card from a non-weapon source, discard that damage card without effect.

Helps against Vader, Bombs and Sabine. It lets the bombs take down shields and only starts kicking it at Hull.

My wording might stop Kylo but that isn't the intention.

It stops kylo, and he's going to give himself a console fire because of it.

1 hour ago, FlyingAnchors said:

It stops kylo, and he's going to give himself a console fire because of it.

When will they learn not to give light sabres to babies?!

I mean, same faction matches are a thing - and now all factions might have a slice at annoying bomber builds. Why does it have to be imperial only?

Anti-Mine Lasers - Modification, large or huge ship only, (imperial only?)

When executing speed 1 or 2 maneuver, you may detonate one bomb token within range 2 of you.

Evasive thursters (or something):

When you roll attack dice from a bomb or mine, you may roll evade dice equal to your agility.

Basically lets ships evade bombs. They'll still hurt low agility ships, but high agility ships will be able to dodge them.

8 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

I mean, same faction matches are a thing - and now all factions might have a slice at annoying bomber builds. Why does it have to be imperial only?

Because we want nice toys and sharing isn't fun. We see Sabine and Cad Bane and want our day in the sun.

I did a thread about a generic imperial crew slot modification, that while inspired by the idea that the empire could possibly get a bomb-centric crew member, I posted about how every TIE variant could benefit from the options a crew member could have.

That being said, a simple counter is seismic torpedoes can destroy laid out mines. Every faction can take them, and thus, offers a counter - at a cost (equipping them, limited shots, and and action for a round).

For a new solution, a Minesweeper elite talent. You may target enemy mines as if they were an enemy. Roll your primary attack value, if you roll a crit, the mine detonates as if a ship landed on, or manoeuvre template crossed it or as if detonates at the end of the action phase.

Side benefit, you could have an high ps ally lay a mine, near some enemies that have yet to go, and then have another equally high ship attack said mine to detonate it BEFORE some enemies move.

Prevents action mines being dropped on these poor 3 and 4 hp ships. Single mod aces have to choose Autothrusters or this. Interceptors gets benefit of both. Bombers will have to get creative with intel agent to know where you are going, or bombadier to extend range of bomb drops, or else just land just outside range 2 and drop a mine in front of the ace. Actually making bombers use a bit more skill.

A true to fluff Imperial solution to mines is probably an empty TIE Bomber with some welded on plating flying in front of the other ships.

Other things currently in the arsenal that one could look to are Ion Pulse Missiles and Ion Cannon TIE/Ds. Can't drop bombs if you can't reveal dials.

25 minutes ago, wurms said:

Prevents action mines being dropped on these poor 3 and 4 hp ships. Single mod aces have to choose Autothrusters or this. Interceptors gets benefit of both. Bombers will have to get creative with intel agent to know where you are going, or bombadier to extend range of bomb drops, or else just land just outside range 2 and drop a mine in front of the ace. Actually making bombers use a bit more skill.

I suggested this exact upgrade a couple of months back and people roasted me for it lol. I think it should be a title that lets you equip another title. Also 2 points is better.

might be slightly off topic since it's not a direct hypothetical upgrade, but imo anti-bomb tech for empire would look exactly like the SF and TLT aggressors

something you learn very quickly playing bombers that aren't Deathrain is that people who don't have to be constantly on your *** are frustratingly difficult to bomb

just fart off and fly away and you'll almost never have to run afoul of a seismic charge

problem ofc is jm5ks make life difficult, but I found a good PS 9 SF can be part of a taskforce that can mulch scouts easily. The BIG problem is Dengar tel

personally don't believe direct anti-X upgrades are good for the game because they turn it into Match-up-wing, even stuff like auto-thrusters has a general use outside just turrets

so, for hypothetical upgrades, I'd want something like attack-independent damage mitigation

Heavyweight Frame (real original, fickle)

Once per round, when you are dealt a face-down damage card you may discard that damage card

You cannot be assigned evade tokens

Sad but true: It would look exactly like a rebel or scum upgrade except cost more, be less useful in some way, and be for a ship that doesn't need it or has other things in that same slot that it needs.

Happy but won't happen: Defensive thrusters, mod, 2pts- you may perform the Boost or BR action more than once a turn. When you are damaged by a non-weapon source you may discard an evade token to reduce the damage by 1.

Mine Avoidance System (System, 2 points): When you would be dealt damage from a bomb or mine detonation, roll defense dice equal to your agility score. You may cancel one damage for each <evade> result rolled.

Related:

Obstacle Avoidance System (System, 0 points): When you would receive damage from overlapping an obstacle, you may roll one defense dice. Cancel one damage for each <evade> result rolled.

Both could be modifications, I suppose.

I think its funny that this thread turned into "ooh heres my idea for low health ships dealing eith bombs" instead of discussing the OP. Not trying to criticize anyone, it seems to be a general problem on these forums lately that I have done too haha!

There are some awesome ideas in this thread. As the OP said, his ideas are a little too powerful, but his third idea has a lot of merit.

Perhaps if it was "The first bomb token that overlaps your ships base per round does not detonate." And it was a modification. Then you would choose between it and thrusters. Also cluster mines would still hit a ship if it overlapped it with multiple mines. You could still do damage with seismics/thermals (if they did not overlap with the ship's base).

I've been enjoying reading all the suggestions. Like I say, I don't really know enough to critique them (though for some reason I really like Rakky Wistol's Defensive Thrusters). I'm just happy to see all the interest in the general idea.

I've been super surprised do Boost or BR again wasn't a pilot ability basically since interceptors came out. It's obvious and makes one hell of an arc dodger.

About a month into the game for me interceptors came out... we missed the you can't do the same action twice rule... Turr solo'd 3 rookie xwings 2nd or third play. Was very unhappy to learn that rule (not really). My buddy was ecstatic. Then I grabbed Soontir instead. He was less ecstatic.

8 hours ago, Rakky Wistol said:

... When you are damaged by a non-weapon source you may discard an evade token to reduce the damage by 1.

I really like this idea (not so sure about the double Boost/BR bit).

The player dropping the bomb won't feel so hard done by, because they've managed to strip a token off you at least, so when they take a shot you're more vulnerable.

Of course, it doesn't help against lower PS ships dropping a Mine on you before you get your action... so perhaps, instead of the double Boost/BR clause, you have a "pay it forward" whereby you can forego taking actions during your activation (if you have no Evade token to spend).

[wording that last bit could be tricky!]

Maybe something along the lines of:

When rolling for damage from a mine or bomb roll one less dice. You cannot receive ion or stress tokens from mines or bombs.

Something that lets you destroy/trigger them which no other faction does!

I like some of these ideas and I think some type of anti-bomb upgrade is needed. On a related note, I'd like to see small ships get an anti-ordnance upgrade, maybe related to agility. Missiles and torps should be money vs. large ships but low HP aces can get smoked too easily. Maybe something that would cancel 1 hit from either a bomb, missile or Torp.