19 minutes ago, Celez said:

Wait I'm confused: is this ship on a large or a small base? If it's a small base the dial is much better than expected!

small ship

with 10health

3 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I don't think it's as clearcut as you are pretending.

They count as bombs for the purpose of discarding:
"When you are instructed to discard an Upgrade card, you may discard 1 ordnance token on that card instead."

And you can keep discarding cards as long as you have them

I see where you're going, but picture "discard any number of upgrade cards" by declaration. It's targeting each card individually, so the number of cards discarded should be limited by the number of cards. If you have 3 equipped, it's probably 3 opportunities upon Map's trigger. @Rakaydos seems to have a pretty good view of it

Just now, D00kies said:

I see where you're going, but picture "discard any number of upgrade cards" by declaration. It's targeting each card individually, so the number of cards discarded should be limited by the number of cards. If you have 3 equipped, it's probably 3 opportunities upon Map's trigger.

Yes, I realized that thanks to @Eisai (He wrote: "I would argue that the "any number" there has to be equal to or less than the number of bombs you have equipped. Then you can interrupt with EM to discard tokens instead of cards, but the window for choosing the number of bombs is already passed.")

So now I think Rakaydos was right for the wrong reason. Any number still means you could potentially go with all, including tokens, but "equipped" reduces that to just the number of cards.

Right. A token is not an upgrade card. It allows a replacement effect to discarding.

18 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

small ship

with 10health

That is crazy efficient for as little as 24pts i would say.

10 minutes ago, Celez said:

That is crazy efficient for as little as 24pts i would say.

It does make the generic Punisher look even more crap. 1 more attack die and a turret option for 3 points.

12 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

Well, it's been a Rebel at the top (Worlds competition level reference) with Scum rising for the last few years. I think the business model feels somewhat secure as they are printing money, and it's pushing its corporate weight towards Scum (remember they're designing 1.5 years ago I'm assuming), and Rebels; it's obviously where the $$$ is at. I was salty a few months ago, but I fly Scum competitively now and play Imps for fun; you must embrace the new game, good or no.

It´s hard to enjoy the game when 1/3 of the game is first nerfed for no reason, then other factions get even more boost to their ships. And don´t even mention the Punisher, mine maps or more bombs will not make it even decent for it´s price.

@Celez Yeah! Even without a large ship value reduction it's cost is low, has a 180, 3 attack and it's packed with upgrades. Seems good!

4 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

It does make the generic Punisher look even more crap. 1 more attack die and a turret option for 3 points.

But the turret means that the Scurrg quickly gets too expensive. Also the Punisher has LWF, the Scurrg not. And finally there's the unguided missiles.

So you can infinite-missile with a sturdy Punisher (effectively 3/2/6/3). On Deathrain you can drop bombs just to get a free BB8-type barrel roll on any maneuver. Sure he might not hit very hard, but he will be crazy agile!

2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Sure he might not hit very hard, but he will be crazy agile!

That and an empty sack will get you the sack.

I'm on board, with reservations with the Unguided/LWF bomber and punisher, but starting with 3 attack, and get to g an option for Autoblaster turret is pretty terrific.

3 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

That and an empty sack will get you the sack.

I'm on board, with reservations with the Unguided/LWF bomber and punisher, but starting with 3 attack, and get to g an option for Autoblaster turret is pretty terrific.

Definitely. I just think the punisher gets more flack than he deserves after Wave11. The differences are still there, but not too large anymore.

2 hours ago, LordBlades said:

Last wave gave Punisher LWF. This wave gives it Unguied Rockets and Mine Mapper. All are steps in the right direction IMO.

Given the quality of FFG playtesting,I'd rather they stick to small, incremental steps.

Those are all nice and all, but they need to come at a discount for the Punisher to start being worth it. Only thing a Punisher has over a Bomber is it can take Bombad General and Mine Mapper (which is kinda hilarious that the Bomber can't take that either).

We're missing the Missile Boat potential. If we assume the "Lok R-" PS3 with EPT is a Lok Revenant priced at 26 (PS 1 is 24, PS 6 with EPT is 28, so 25 or 26 seems right), we can:

=======================
Lok Revenant Missile Boats
=======================

100 points

Lok Revenant (33)
Scurrg H-6 Bomber (26), Deadeye (1), Extra Munitions (2), Concussion Missiles (4), Guidance Chips (0)

Lok Revenant (35)
Scurrg H-6 Bomber (26), Deadeye (1), Extra Munitions (2), Homing Missiles (4), Guidance Chips (0), Boba Fett (1)

Lok Revenant (32)
Scurrg H-6 Bomber (26), Deadeye (1), Extra Munitions (2), Ion Pulse Missiles (3), Guidance Chips (0)

Replace Extra Munitions with Autoblaster Turrets if you wish. Or load the last one with a bomblet generator as a bombing bump-boat.

6 hours ago, Tbetts94 said:

There was a rumor going around in one the the twitch chats about how the Scurgg was so good that they are gonna nerf Sabine on arrival. Same type of talk happened back in March about X/7 and Palpatine and that they were testing nerfs.

So... Nerf Sabine but add Cad? Scummy

8 minutes ago, Cr0aker said:

So... Nerf Sabine but add Cad? Scummy

Well, sometimes parents have to choose between their two favorites kids.

3 hours ago, LordBlades said:

Last wave gave Punisher LWF. This wave gives it Unguied Rockets and Mine Mapper. All are steps in the right direction IMO.

Given the quality of FFG playtesting,I'd rather they stick to small, incremental steps.

What's funny is that LWF and UR are steps away from being an ordnance carrier as you'd traditionally think of in this game.

So basically, the only way to make the Punisher worth it is to say, "yeah we totally missed the mark, here, just outfit it to be like a more tanky but strictly worse on offense B-Wing".

Whereas a card that would make it actually function like the best ordnance carrier in the game is already in use, with the name "Vaksai".

4 hours ago, Suriel said:

And they last how long against current meta lists? 2 turn each? Maybe even one Punisher destroyed a turn?

I get it these new upgrades do address some of Punisher downsides. UR bumps attack to 3 dice with limited modification. LWF will usually add extra green die. Maybe it will even make a difference and Punisher will survive 3 rounds of shooting. Bomblets, well, majority of forum ppl opted to have something like it as Punisher only upgrade. Instead Scum and Rebels got it as well, and have better chassis to use it.

We have overpriced piece of garbage, added some points, and we still have garbage but this time it's environment friendly.

Anyhow, I'm salty. I hope I'm wrong and Punisher will be the new overlord.

First off, you don't have to take more than one Tie Punisher in a list. I think the new meta will be a bit of a balanced list. You can put in an Ace, a Tie Punisher, and a TLT Aggressor and probably do fine. So, I'm not sure where you are getting this "kill 1 Tie Punisher a turn" idea.

That also goes into target priority. If you have a list of mixed things then the enemy has to pick what to shoot at. If there is something more dangerous in the list, then it probably isn't shooting at the Tie Punisher that turn. So, there are more turns that it can last. Depending on how you fly, you can have it last more than just 2 turns and be more useful.

Yeah, you are pretty salty if you can't think of fun ways to use Deathrain and infinite bombs! Man, think of the fun with it!

15 hours ago, MaxPower said:

As an empire player, I'm beginning to feel irritated. Shouldn't we get cool bombers, too? Maybe in the form of an upgraded iconic ship... say... the bomber? Oh. I forgot. That one's a shuttle now.

Well... as strange as it is, we could get an imperial only crew that adds two bomb icons to a ship, so you can equip it on a shuttle.

Personally, I think a modification could be interesting:

Gunner Station

TIE only.

your ship gains a crew slot. You may not equip uniqie crew upgrades.

Cost: ??

Reasoning: Ties are big enough to hold more than one person in canon, and we have multiple ships that by the new canon are not matching in game. For instance, as per Rebels we see a gunner station in the secondary pod on a TIE bomber. Also, the TIE Striker had bombs and a bomber crew. In the Force Awakens, the TIE/sf housed two main characters.

Now, adding a crew slot allows an imperial bomb centric crew. This allows the striker to have its bombs. The bomber can benefit from this as well, or other non unique crew. The TIE/sf can take it as well, leading it to be a true multi role fighter. The downside to this gunner station is it takes your modification slot, So while you gain a crew on several ships, those same ships cannot take things such as lightweight frame, or in the case of the TIE phantom, the cloak upgrades. Truly, the TIE interceptor becomes a beast with a crew, Add the (Proposed above) Gunner Station sportinng a Gunner and a Targeting Computer modificationon a Push the Limit Fel and it would be a beast, but pricy.

The proposed upgrade fits, in my opinion, thematically AND in many regards, is a boost to many ships that are lagging behind and not seeing play. It has a high cost in that it takes up your precious modification slot, which limits many other often preferable upgrades. The bonus, is it instantlty brings up many ships to the proper canon status in terms of what we see.

3 hours ago, Tbetts94 said:

FFG has pretty much screwed Empire out of bombs these past 11 waves.

The Tie freaking Bomber , can't even take the Bomblet Generator.

Also, this expansion ain't fixing the Punisher lol. I'm sure no play tester even thought of that ship.

It is ironic that the Tie Bomber is the ordnance carrier and the Tie Punisher is the Bomber.

How can you say that all these Wave 11 upgrades don't help the Tie Punisher?

• Bomblet Generator
• Minefield Mapping
• Unguided Rockets

2 hours ago, D00kies said:

Right. A token is not an upgrade card. It allows a replacement effect to discarding.

Except.....Boba Fett has you remove an upgrade card. The FAQ says you remove an Extra Munitions token. I believe that you will be able to use EM tokens to drop bombs early. Even if you argue that they had to FAQ Boba Fett to get that....I will say that they will FAQ the Mapper to do the same.

I know I'm al ittle late to the party, but I want to throw in two bits on the Minefield Mapper/Extra Munitions argument.

The "once per opportunity" question has been exhaustively addressed by other forum-goers, but I searched and couldn't find anyone talking about the last part of the text on Minefield Mapper: " Place all corresponding bomb tokens in the play area beyond range 3 of enemy ships." (emphasis added)

It is possible "all corresponding bomb tokens" includes bomb tokens corresponding with both the Extra Munitions token and the bomb upgrade card. There is no "you may" so the effect is mandatory. Step by step it would look like this:

1. Trigger Minefield Mapper

2. Choose equipped bomb upgrades to discard.

3. Discard Extra Munitions tokens instead.

4. Deploy all bomb tokens corresponding with discarded Extra Munitions tokens.

If @Rakaydos is correct (and I personally believe he is) then the process stops here. However, it is possible the instruction to "place all corresponding bomb tokens" means tokens associated with the upgrade card, because a token is not a card. If this is true, then discarding Extra Muntions tokens does not satisfy a mandatory effect of Minefield Mapper. If this is true, then the player must continue deploying bomb tokens until the chosen upgrades are expended.

I'm not saying absolutely that this is the case. I'm just saying it is possible FFG will rule it like this incthe future. Just playing devil's advocate a moment longer: if FFG rules that "all corresponding bomb tokens" includes both token and card, then there is the interesting consequence that the player using Minefield Mapper cannot use Extra Munitions to deploy one bomb during setup, and save the other for later in the game. It's all or nothing, can't have it both ways, which would be appropriate for a 0-point card.

I personally think the "instead" clause on Extra Muntions means the mandatory effect of Minefield Mapper is satisified by discarding the token and deploying just the token's corresponding bomb tokens. I wouldn't assert my "all corresponding bomb tokens" argument to another player or official without FAQ backup.

7 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

It is ironic that the Tie Bomber is the ordnance carrier and the Tie Punisher is the Bomber.

How can you say that all these Wave 11 upgrades don't help the Tie Punisher?

• Bomblet Generator
• Minefield Mapping
• Unguided Rockets

Sure, it helps. But it won't fix it.

Bombs are still not effective damage wise without an Imperial Sabine/Cad Bane. Unguided Rockets are nice little buff if they still have their focus. Hot Shot CoPilot and just plain shooting at the ship should strip their focus and if they aren't using their focus you're already winning.

Now when I say bombs aren't effective damage wise, I mean they aren't on par with other bombing platforms. They would be balanced and not overpowered like the K-Wing and Scurgg is about to be with those two crew. Now if a nerf happened to those two, than that may be the fix the Punisher needed.

Ok wow, just wow. Look at that dial and compare that to a Punisher or a Bomber. Where is the balance????? More move possible, faster, more green and can Talon roll. Common! And on top of that one of the main thing keeping Imperials from performing is getting an unlimited version?? But wait, there is more! They added a bomb boost to scums with Cad Bane, making the Imperial the only faction without one. And this ship can equip a TLT?? Oh and it can equip EPTs...

This ship is another Jumpmaster/ Shadowcaster / Protectorate. And then people wonder why players are getting away from the game.

16 hours ago, MaxPower said:

As an empire player, I'm beginning to feel irritated. Shouldn't we get cool bombers, too? Maybe in the form of an upgraded iconic ship... say... the bomber? Oh. I forgot. That one's a shuttle now.

Eh they even show in the preview who gets screwed again... :-)