Once again I have successfully confused myself. During character creation, is there a way to increase your force rating beyond one? I know Force Exile / Emergent grants a character a Force Rating of 1. I also know if you start out with one of the careers from F&D you get a Force Rating of 1. If I take Force Exile, Force Emergent and a F&D Career, would I theoretically start with a Force Rating of 3? That doesn't seem right to me.

No. Also, taking those extra careers don't increase your FR either. They give you a FR of 1 if you don't have an FR.

the only way a starting character can start with FR 2 is by starting with an F&D career and spend his xp (usually min 75 xp) to buy all the way to the talent force rating (not present in the style saber trees excepr niman). It isnt possible with any characters starting xp with force sensitive exile or emergent.

You would likely forego increasing any characteristic not already above or equal to 2 any further. Bezt you could do is have characteristics of 3/2/2/2/2/2 and have the few specs thst have a straight line dive to force rating (protector for example) something like weequay could do 3/2/1/3/2/1 and have enough xp to get fr 2.

Taking Exile or Emergent grants you FR 1 (unless you already have FR 1 or higher, then it does nothing).

Starting with a career from Force & Destiny grants you FR 1. Taking a F&D spec later on doesn't change your FR in itself. You get FR 1 from the careers, not the specs. Since you can only ever have one career you can't use this to increase your FR.

You increase your FR in play by buying the Force Rating talent which most Force-using specs have near the bottom of their tree.

Force Rating 1 should have been a talent called "Force Sensitive" and that talent should have granted FR1.

On 6/15/2017 at 3:56 PM, Stan Fresh said:

Taking Exile or Emergent grants you FR 1 (unless you already have FR 1 or higher, then it does nothing).

Starting with a career from Force & Destiny grants you FR 1. Taking a F&D spec later on doesn't change your FR in itself. You get FR 1 from the careers, not the specs. Since you can only ever have one career you can't use this to increase your FR.

You increase your FR in play by buying the Force Rating talent which most Force-using specs have near the bottom of their tree.

So if I create my character as a Smuggler/Pilot, and then later purchase the Sage specialization, and then purchase Sage talents, including the Force Rating talents, will I gain access to Force Powers at that point? Or MUST I purchase one of the Universal Force Sensitive specs before gaining access to Force Powers?

Technically, in that situation you would need to be granted a Force Rating from somewhere before the Force Rating talent can start adding to it.

Think about it like this: the talent that you see in the Force and Destiny specializations all add +1 to your Force Rating. But if you are not a member of a Force and Destiny career , you don't have a Force Rating of 0, you just don't have a Force Rating. So, because you don't have one, adding +1 to it does nothing.

Currently, if you're a member of an Edge or Age career (like your aforementioned Smuggler: Pilot), the only way to gain a Force Rating is to take one of the two Force-Sensitive universal specializations. So you would need to take one of those before any of the Force talents do anything for you. However, that being said, many GMs would probably grant you your Force Rating 1 at the same time as you take your first Force Rating talent. That is a not-unreasonable house rule.

Holocrons are already noted as having effects determined by the GM. IT would be very easy for the GM to provide a holocron that provides Force Rating 1 (in actuality, it awakens the latent Force Sensitivity of the person rather than actually turning a non-FS into a FS).

5 hours ago, Volt80 said:

So if I create my character as a Smuggler/Pilot, and then later purchase the Sage specialization, and then purchase Sage talents, including the Force Rating talents, will I gain access to Force Powers at that point? Or MUST I purchase one of the Universal Force Sensitive specs before gaining access to Force Powers?

It is the latter, because buying the sage specialization does not grant you force rating 1(F&D specializations gain this from the career not the specialization). Buying the talent "Force Rating" , does not benefit you either as you cannot use force talents until you gain a force rating

Though you could start as a sage, and immediately buy smuggler afterwards.

4 hours ago, syrath said:

Buying the talent "Force Rating" , does not benefit you either as you cannot use force talents until you gain a force rating

If you buy the Talent you get Force Rating +1. If you were a smuggler/pilot, and then bought Sage, you'd have FR-0, but buying the Force Rating Talent in Sage makes that FR1. So you do benefit, eventually.

No you dont get the benifit of either of the +1fr talents from sage if you didnt start in an f&d career... Or bought force sensitive energent or exile.

7 minutes ago, TheShard said:

No you dont get the benifit of either of the +1fr talents from sage if you didnt start in an f&d career... Or bought force sensitive energent or exile.

Where did you get that idea? Both Emergent and Exile have a +1FR talent (so you can end up with FR2), are you saying that is somehow different from the ones in F&D?

I'm saying you get your initial fr from the f&d career. It's why it has one less career skill. The emergent and exile universal specs are unique in that it gives you your initial fr rating if you didn't start in f&d.

16 minutes ago, whafrog said:

Where did you get that idea? Both Emergent and Exile have a +1FR talent (so you can end up with FR2), are you saying that is somehow different from the ones in F&D?

Emergent and Exile give you FR 1 when you buy them. Without FR 1 you can't benefit from Force talents. FR upgrade is a Force talent, hence you can't benefit from it that way.

Edit: FaD specialisations, on the other hand, do not give you FR 1, FaD careers do that, and you can't buy careers.

38 minutes ago, whafrog said:

If you buy the Talent you get Force Rating +1. If you were a smuggler/pilot, and then bought Sage, you'd have FR-0, but buying the Force Rating Talent in Sage makes that FR1. So you do benefit, eventually.

Note that the Force Rating talent in all three core rulebooks is noted as being a Force talent, which in order to make use of you need to have a Force Rating of 1 or higher, something that's spelled out fairly explicitly in at least the Force and Destiny core rulebook; been a while since I've checked the talent section of the EotE or AoR core rulebook, so don't know for sure if they have similar text, but when it was just those two books the only way to get the Force Rating talent was through one of two universal specs that provided Force Rating 1, making it something of a moot point.

9 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Note that the Force Rating talent in all three core rulebooks is noted as being a Force talent, which in order to make use of you need to have a Force Rating of 1 or higher, something that's spelled out fairly explicitly in at least the Force and Destiny core rulebook; been a while since I've checked the talent section of the EotE or AoR core rulebook, so don't know for sure if they have similar text, but when it was just those two books the only way to get the Force Rating talent was through one of two universal specs that provided Force Rating 1, making it something of a moot point.

Okay, makes sense.

25 minutes ago, TheShard said:

I'm saying you get your initial fr from the f&d career. It's why it has one less career skill. The emergent and exile universal specs are unique in that it gives you your initial fr rating if you didn't start in f&d.

Okay, but you said you can't benefit from the Force Rating in Sage if you first bought Exile or Emergent. So you seem to be saying someone who buys Pilot, then Exile, is limited to FR2? If they buy Sage after they can't use those FR talents? That doesn't seem right.

As far as I understand it, if you buy Pilot, then Exile, you have FR1. You buy down to the FR talent in Exile, you have FR2. Then you buy Sage. You still have FR2, but you can buy and benefit from the FR Talents in Sage.

I think TheShard's comment was just poorly worded. Had to read it twice to grok what he was trying to say.

Sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth TheShard, but it sounds like your intent was to say something along the lines of "just buying the Sage spec doesn't help if you're a Smuggler/Pilot, as in order to benefit from Sage's Force Rating talents you'd also need to purchase either Exile or Emergent to get Force Rating 1."

9 minutes ago, whafrog said:

Okay, but you said you can't benefit from the Force Rating in Sage if you first bought Exile or Emergent. So you seem to be saying someone who buys Pilot, then Exile, is limited to FR2? If they buy Sage after they can't use those FR talents? That doesn't seem right.

As far as I understand it, if you buy Pilot, then Exile, you have FR1. You buy down to the FR talent in Exile, you have FR2. Then you buy Sage. You still have FR2, but you can buy and benefit from the FR Talents in Sage.

You seem to be referring to their response to this message of yours:

58 minutes ago, whafrog said:

If you buy the Talent you get Force Rating +1. If you were a smuggler/pilot, and then bought Sage, you'd have FR-0, but buying the Force Rating Talent in Sage makes that FR1. So you do benefit, eventually.

There you suggested that Smuggler/Pilot who buys the Sage specialisation and then buys an FR upgrade gives you FR 1, which is false.

Yes poorly worded, not had coffee yet, brain work not so well

Yeah, you can start of as a smuggler, buy sage and pick up the two force rating talents, however you would still be FR 0 but the second you buy FS Exile or Emergent, you would have the unusual situation od jumping straight to FR 3.

1 hour ago, Arctanaar said:

You seem to be referring to their response to this message of yours:

Yeah, I was wrong about the Pilot+Sage. However, I thought he was saying even if you bought Exile/Emergent, your Sage FR wouldn't apply.

It's all figured out now.

However if you don't mind paying a bit of catch up, just start sage, and immediately buy smuggler, unless rping his awakening to the force is important... Also there is a force sensitive pilot spec