No it's a keyword for squadrons. it'd be a formation buster type squadron. Would also be somewhat expensive so you can't go around just running 8 of them.

Sounds decent. Again though, it can guarantee the death of squads like Luke, Biggs, Shara, and Hera, likely one a turn, or with Jendon, 2 a turn. So it'd have to be very expensive, and have some serious drawbacks, if it can account for the destruction of roughly 40 points of squads per turn.

What if you just kill Intel? I think people undervalue AA from ships. 2 ships flaking a squad ball will quickly kill it even with Biggs. Not so much against GH. A blue flak flotilla is the cheapest you will get and has incredible threat range to squads. Toryn Farr makes them almost always hit.

28 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

What if you just kill Intel? I think people undervalue AA from ships. 2 ships flaking a squad ball will quickly kill it even with Biggs. Not so much against GH. A blue flak flotilla is the cheapest you will get and has incredible threat range to squads. Toryn Farr makes them almost always hit.

I agree, it is not incredibly difficult to destroy an Intel squadron if you try (despite Escort), perhaps not on the first turn but certainly on the second turn of an engagement. I usually feel that the difficulties at dealing with Intel are a bit overrated. You obviously need to invest some into fighters and most probably some Flight Controllers, but overall it will be well invested points in the end.

With decent positioning of your squadrons a single Intel will at most be able to loosen up maybe two or three other squadrons, I don't see that as a major threat and now they broken up their formation and the Intel squadron will be exposed as well. It also depend on if the opponent rely on quantity or quality activation how they can go about using their Intel ship. Remember that you can use your Intel to reposition your squadrons to tie them up again after their Intel ship moved.

In my opinion this is a rather fun mechanic of trying to outstrategize the opponent with the squadron war.

1 hour ago, Crabbok said:

Here's an idea. It doesn't nerf the keyword specifically, but would allow you to break up tight formations.

Squadron Keyword:

Engine Sabotage - After you attack a squadron, it must perform a move at a minimum of speed 4. If it cannot, it is destroyed. This ignores all movement restrictions such as being engaged and it can do this even if it has already activated.

I think this would favor Imperials over Rebels way too much but I do like the idea of countering Intel squads with another squadron keyword, maybe something like:

Counter-Intel - All other friendly squadrons at distance 1 lose Heavy .

This would also allow squads like YVs and VCXs and most bombers to be used for pinning down other squads.

24 minutes ago, jorgen_cab said:

I agree, it is not incredibly difficult to destroy an Intel squadron if you try (despite Escort), perhaps not on the first turn but certainly on the second turn of an engagement. I usually feel that the difficulties at dealing with Intel are a bit overrated. You obviously need to invest some into fighters and most probably some Flight Controllers, but overall it will be well invested points in the end.

With decent positioning of your squadrons a single Intel will at most be able to loosen up maybe two or three other squadrons, I don't see that as a major threat and now they broken up their formation and the Intel squadron will be exposed as well. It also depend on if the opponent rely on quantity or quality activation how they can go about using their Intel ship. Remember that you can use your Intel to reposition your squadrons to tie them up again after their Intel ship moved.

In my opinion this is a rather fun mechanic of trying to outstrategize the opponent with the squadron war.

I was thinking more along the lines of this: Your opponent invests 130ish points in squads with the intent of killing your ships. So treat that ball of squads as a 130 point ship and devote your attack to it. Are you going to let an ISD just chill on your flank and not attack it?

I think people get "Kill the ships" fixation and don't value 1 die attacks against squadrons, but rather take a 3-4 dice attack against ships when you can actually get much more dice against squadrons.

I do think everyone needs to run squads currently. Shara+Tycho or Ciena+Valen are the best IMO for minimum squads. 4 A-Wings and 4 Tie/F are pretty good too so long as you bring a ship that is devoted to attacking squads like BH or a FT Raider. It's just difficult to use this minimum investment to take on a maximum investment. You can't win and I don't think we should look for an answer on how to always win that engagement.

Just now, Undeadguy said:

I was thinking more along the lines of this: Your opponent invests 130ish points in squads with the intent of killing your ships. So treat that ball of squads as a 130 point ship and devote your attack to it. Are you going to let an ISD just chill on your flank and not attack it?

I think people get "Kill the ships" fixation and don't value 1 die attacks against squadrons, but rather take a 3-4 dice attack against ships when you can actually get much more dice against squadrons.

I do think everyone needs to run squads currently. Shara+Tycho or Ciena+Valen are the best IMO for minimum squads. 4 A-Wings and 4 Tie/F are pretty good too so long as you bring a ship that is devoted to attacking squads like BH or a FT Raider. It's just difficult to use this minimum investment to take on a maximum investment. You can't win and I don't think we should look for an answer on how to always win that engagement.

It will obviously not always be about winning the squadron war as much as dealing with it so your ships can do what they need to do. Their job can be to just mitigate the opposing squadron strength.

I usually look at about 60-70p for anti-fighter squadron in any list and I suppose there are different ways to handle it. I like Howlrunner and some simple Tie-fighters and perhaps an Interceptor for a light screen at 60-70p. Add in some flight controllers and you can really do some damage too. But there are other good combinations as well. I usually play with a bit larger battles so it is a bit different but for 400p then 60-70p is a good force to deal with opposing squadrons, if you also have ships to support them the better.

I also think that Gozanties and Transports work pretty well for AA to support fighters as well. For the Rebels the Nebulon-B escort can push some squadrons around and contribute to ship or AA as needed.

I'd suggest looking away from effects that just turn intel off, and instead look towards an ability like Ketsu Onyo's as an indirect counter to intel.

She doesn't prevent Rhymer (or anyone, but especially Rhymer) from blowing up your ships, and she's pretty fragile herself, but a hypothetical Rieekan-Ketsu can keep a bomber wing pretty close to pinned, without completely stopping it from doing anything or engaging in a keyword arms race (intel vs "anti-intel" vs super-intel vs anti-super-intel etc).

Moreover, she doesn't affect all targets equally. She makes B/Y Wings and Firesprays sad, but TIE Bombers/Lancers less so, and Defenders/A-Wings especially less so. And there's counterplay, namely Rhymer and AFFM/Independence.

To be clear, I'm not saying Ketsu is a hard counter to bomber fleets and nobody has realized it yet, or anything silly like that, just that hers is an ability of the sort that people should be looking at for inspiration.

This post has made me realize how badly I want to see an Imperial bomber list boosting ace/upgrade card/commander that specifically provides an alternative choice to Rhymer.

7 minutes ago, jorgen_cab said:

It will obviously not always be about winning the squadron war as much as dealing with it so your ships can do what they need to do. Their job can be to just mitigate the opposing squadron strength.

I usually look at about 60-70p for anti-fighter squadron in any list and I suppose there are different ways to handle it. I like Howlrunner and some simple Tie-fighters and perhaps an Interceptor for a light screen at 60-70p. Add in some flight controllers and you can really do some damage too. But there are other good combinations as well. I usually play with a bit larger battles so it is a bit different but for 400p then 60-70p is a good force to deal with opposing squadrons, if you also have ships to support them the better.

I also think that Gozanties and Transports work pretty well for AA to support fighters as well. For the Rebels the Nebulon-B escort can push some squadrons around and contribute to ship or AA as needed.

I forgot about Yavaris's AA dice. 2 blues is much better than 3 reds in nearly every situation.

Once the Quasar drops, I'm looking at Dengar, Howl, Soontir, Ciena, and Mauler boosted by FC. It's a strong alpha and even better on the defense. Counter 4 on 2 squads, auto ping from Mauler and auto ping from Soontir. I'd also add Valen if you want an even 6.

6 scatter aces that constantly deal damage.

56 minutes ago, Megatronrex said:

Counter-Intel - All other friendly squadrons at distance 1 lose Heavy .

This is called Valen Rudor

17 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I forgot about Yavaris's AA dice. 2 blues is much better than 3 reds in nearly every situation.

Once the Quasar drops, I'm looking at Dengar, Howl, Soontir, Ciena, and Mauler boosted by FC. It's a strong alpha and even better on the defense. Counter 4 on 2 squads, auto ping from Mauler and auto ping from Soontir. I'd also add Valen if you want an even 6.

6 scatter aces that constantly deal damage.

Valen or Saber Squadron for Snipe or maybe Black Squadron for the even six and odd three activations.

17 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I forgot about Yavaris's AA dice. 2 blues is much better than 3 reds in nearly every situation.

Once the Quasar drops, I'm looking at Dengar, Howl, Soontir, Ciena, and Mauler boosted by FC. It's a strong alpha and even better on the defense. Counter 4 on 2 squads, auto ping from Mauler and auto ping from Soontir. I'd also add Valen if you want an even 6.

6 scatter aces that constantly deal damage.

And you may need to add an escort (say, Black Squadron for Escort and counter 2) to ensure the Soontir ping.

Didn't Snipafist write an excellent article on how to use light & medium fighter screens? I seem to remember 2 points that spoke to how to counter Intel. (apologies if it was another of our excellent tactics professors)

1) Don't get all up in their grill. If you remain outside of distance 1 of the intel squads, one Intel source can't free the whole bomber ball. They can free half, but not all.

2) Leave a reserve. If you have some squads engaged, and a couple of squads back at your ship, then the intel squad can't both break the bombers free & allow them to attack ships.

Also, why no love for IG88? If you need to kill one squad in particular, he's your droid. Saber, IG, Jendon, and Mauler can put a lot of hurt onto a key squadron in a single activation. Lead off with an escort squad & try to get Jan to spend a brace before the headhunting group attacks.

1 hour ago, Ginkapo said:

This is called Valen Rudor

I only see the slightest of similarities to Rudor. This is kind of like saying Howlrunner's special ability is the same as Dengar's.

1 minute ago, Baltanok said:

Didn't Snipafist write an excellent article on how to use light & medium fighter screens? I seem to remember 2 points that spoke to how to counter Intel. (apologies if it was another of our excellent tactics professors)

1) Don't get all up in their grill. If you remain outside of distance 1 of the intel squads, one Intel source can't free the whole bomber ball. They can free half, but not all.

2) Leave a reserve. If you have some squads engaged, and a couple of squads back at your ship, then the intel squad can't both break the bombers free & allow them to attack ships.

Also, why no love for IG88? If you need to kill one squad in particular, he's your droid. Saber, IG, Jendon, and Mauler can put a lot of hurt onto a key squadron in a single activation. Lead off with an escort squad & try to get Jan to spend a brace before the headhunting group attacks.

Actually, @geek19 did. Same blog though:

Small Fighter Cover
Small Fighter Cover Imps

Using the SFC

Medium Fighter Cover

4 hours ago, Frimmel said:

Valen or Saber Squadron for Snipe or maybe Black Squadron for the even six and odd three activations.

4 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

And you may need to add an escort (say, Black Squadron for Escort and counter 2) to ensure the Soontir ping.

I always forget about Black Squadron. It would be a very good addition to that screen. I don't think it need Escort since if they attack Soontir anyway, they will take Counter 4 back with Swarm.

Toss in Sloane and you have a nasty ace killing squadron ball.

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

I always forget about Black Squadron. It would be a very good addition to that screen. I don't think it need Escort since if they attack Soontir anyway, they will take Counter 4 back with Swarm.

Toss in Sloane and you have a nasty ace killing squadron ball.

Its just more that you want to minimise how many Shots Soontir takes, since once his scatter is gone, he's all of 3 Hit Points... And every shot that lands somewhere other than him nearby is a free unblockable, un-scatterable blot of damage.... So get a few hits out of that, and then be exposed for Counter 4 With Swarm...

Its just wether those hits are worth the cost of the Escort. With Black Squadron, its 9 Points and you're putting Counter on top of Free Damage, and that is good .

2 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Its just more that you want to minimise how many Shots Soontir takes, since once his scatter is gone, he's all of 3 Hit Points... And every shot that lands somewhere other than him nearby is a free unblockable, un-scatterable blot of damage.... So get a few hits out of that, and then be exposed for Counter 4 With Swarm...

Its just wether those hits are worth the cost of the Escort. With Black Squadron, its 9 Points and you're putting Counter on top of Free Damage, and that is good .

Or I have Valen which also has scatter and black dice. If Soontir is being attacked, it also means Dengar isn't. Plus, Black Squadron will get 1 shot most likely. Definitely take it if you plan on taking more than the 6 I said.

My idea is to not have too many points in too few squadrons because quantity is as important as quality when it comes to engaging and tying up an opponents squadrons. Basic squadrons also generally dish out more damage and can almost take as much damage in return. The major downside is activation opportunities.

I usually look get Howlrunner, Dengar, Valen Rudor and Sontiir at a 600p fleet. In 400p I would only pick two of them and Howlrunner always are one of them for me. Aside from that a mix of regular Tie-fighter/interceptors. In 400p I would probably rarely go below 70p investment though.

Quantity is a quality all its own.