So I want to start playing something besides Kanan/Biggs. I've wanted to for awhile now, not because I don't believe it can't win, but rather because I'm bored of it. I was wondering what ya'll thoughts are on Norra w/ Expertise? On the one hand, she can use her full dial and still use her ability. On the other, she's still going to have R2D2 so she'll mostly be doing greens anyways. She's just as vulnerable to stress as the PTL variant (but one point more expensive), and she can't use her ability on defense. Furthermore, she's still plagued by the same issue she always has - she can't reroll her blanks. To address the reroll issue, I was thinking about perhaps using M9-G8 in the squad. It's between that, Shara, or Predator for any meaningful way of getting rerolls. So that brought me to this:

Norra w/ Expertise, R2D2, C3PO, AO

Biggs w/ R2D6, VI, IA

Jess Pava w/ M9G8, Sensor Cluster, IA

Total:97 Points

I have no clue what to do with the 3 remaining points. The easy answer is AT on Jess and 1pt init, but I'm not sure that's the best use. I could put Plasmas on someone, but Norra doesn't really want them, Biggs wants the F for defense, and Jess wants her TL on Norra. I could put VTs on Norra, which is a legit consideration. Or I could put Seismic torps on Jess... Providing a bit of an anti-ace upgrade. I donno, I think in general this list is going to get owned by all of those PS9 aces out there... And I think that's kinda the case for Norra in most lists. With her 29 point starting price, she's almost too expensive to not upgrade, but then when she gets up to ~40ish points, she's too expensive to earn her keep. Perhaps she would be best off as a 32pt ace with just PTL (and maybe R2 Astro for those green turns).

What do ya'll think?

I'd say swap the Sensor Clusters off Jess for Pattern Analyzer. That way you can get your focus or potentially boost after a talon roll or k turn and rely on her own rerolls near her allies to turn those blanks into a result. Then it's the argument of either Autothrusters on Jess or Vectored Thrusters on Norra IMO. Granted you don't have PTL anymore on Norra so Vectored Thrusters isn't as awesome, which is why I think PTL still just works out better on her.

I was never a fan of expertise Nora because PTL is a point cheaper, and you can use Kyle Katarn for lots of actions with it. However, I saw this Nora build used very well at a store championship this past weekend and it did very well. It was flown with a standard Rey build. I managed to beat it with Assaj/Dengar, but it was a really close match and as long as you fly well, it is a solid ship.

In addition to the other concerns already mentioned, another thing to keep in mind is that Expertise does not buff the rear arc very much, given that you already have the eye-to-crit conversion from the title.

1 hour ago, Khyros said:

So I want to start playing something besides Kanan/Biggs. I've wanted to for awhile now, not because I don't believe it can't win, but rather because I'm bored of it. I was wondering what ya'll thoughts are on Norra w/ Expertise? On the one hand, she can use her full dial and still use her ability. On the other, she's still going to have R2D2 so she'll mostly be doing greens anyways. She's just as vulnerable to stress as the PTL variant (but one point more expensive), and she can't use her ability on defense. Furthermore, she's still plagued by the same issue she always has - she can't reroll her blanks. To address the reroll issue, I was thinking about perhaps using M9-G8 in the squad. It's between that, Shara, or Predator for any meaningful way of getting rerolls. So that brought me to this:

Norra w/ Expertise, R2D2, C3PO, AO

Biggs w/ R2D6, VI, IA

Jess Pava w/ M9G8, Sensor Cluster, IA

Total:97 Points

I have no clue what to do with the 3 remaining points. The easy answer is AT on Jess and 1pt init, but I'm not sure that's the best use. I could put Plasmas on someone, but Norra doesn't really want them, Biggs wants the F for defense, and Jess wants her TL on Norra. I could put VTs on Norra, which is a legit consideration. Or I could put Seismic torps on Jess... Providing a bit of an anti-ace upgrade. I donno, I think in general this list is going to get owned by all of those PS9 aces out there... And I think that's kinda the case for Norra in most lists. With her 29 point starting price, she's almost too expensive to not upgrade, but then when she gets up to ~40ish points, she's too expensive to earn her keep. Perhaps she would be best off as a 32pt ace with just PTL (and maybe R2 Astro for those green turns).

What do ya'll think?

I've been flying Norra a lot lately and she's quickly becoming my favorite ship/pilot. Here are my thoughts:

• I haven't tried Expertise on her because all of the reasons you've already detailed...it's more expensive than PtL and just as vulnerable to stress, maybe moreso, plus it's somewhat redundant with the auxiliary arc portion of the title. Assaj/Latts would ruin Expertise-Norra's day, being able to stress her to turn off Expertise at the beginning of combat, then being able to pull off the stress with Latts for an evade after Norra's window for attack dice modification is over.
• I also am not a fan of C-3P0 in a Biggs/Norra list because C-3P0 probably isn't doing much for you while Biggs is alive and you're going to want Norra as your endgame ship, which means you're probably going to want Tail Gunner in her crew slot or she'll struggle to push through damage.
• VI on Biggs does pretty much nothing for you except maybe fire once before he dies to mid/low-PS ships.
• Sensor Cluster on Jess, like C-3P0 on Norra, does little for you while Biggs is alive. I think PA would be a better choice for actions with T-rolls and K-turns.
• I really like M9-G8 on Jess with these three ships. I think knowing when to use it to buff your own ships or nerf opposing ships can be key, particularly to help keep Biggs alive.

The way I look at regen Norra is that you want her to be your end game ship. That means all you really want/need is for her to be left standing in a favorable match-up against whatever is left of the opposing list. There aren't a lot of single ships I would consider her to be in an unfavorable match-up in the endgame.

8 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I've been flying Norra a lot lately and she's quickly becoming my favorite ship/pilot. Here are my thoughts:

• I haven't tried Expertise on her because all of the reasons you've already detailed...it's more expensive than PtL and just as vulnerable to stress, maybe moreso, plus it's somewhat redundant with the auxiliary arc portion of the title. Assaj/Latts would ruin Expertise-Norra's day, being able to stress her to turn off Expertise at the beginning of combat, then being able to pull off the stress with Latts for an evade after Norra's window for attack dice modification is over.
• I also am not a fan of C-3P0 in a Biggs/Norra list because C-3P0 probably isn't doing much for you while Biggs is alive and you're going to want Norra as your endgame ship, which means you're probably going to want Tail Gunner in her crew slot or she'll struggle to push through damage.
• VI on Biggs does pretty much nothing for you except maybe fire once before he dies to mid/low-PS ships.
• Sensor Cluster on Jess, like C-3P0 on Norra, does little for you while Biggs is alive. I think PA would be a better choice for actions with T-rolls and K-turns.
• I really like M9-G8 on Jess with these three ships. I think knowing when to use it to buff your own ships or nerf opposing ships can be key, particularly to help keep Biggs alive.

The way I look at regen Norra is that you want her to be your end game ship. That means all you really want/need is for her to be left standing in a favorable match-up against whatever is left of the opposing list. There aren't a lot of single ships I would consider her to be in an unfavorable match-up in the endgame.

Thanks for the thoughts. I just want to point out though that the point of VI on Biggs is that it makes him a PS7 to match Norra. Which makes it infinitely easier to fly him in formation and keep him behind her since Norra can now activate first. Otherwise you're left either leap frogging each other, and your opponent knows you can't go slowly, or Biggs is in front of Norra, and your opponents get the better shot on him, leaving Norra with a subpar shot.

Just now, Khyros said:

Thanks for the thoughts. I just want to point out though that the point of VI on Biggs is that it makes him a PS7 to match Norra. Which makes it infinitely easier to fly him in formation and keep him behind her since Norra can now activate first. Otherwise you're left either leap frogging each other, and your opponent knows you can't go slowly, or Biggs is in front of Norra, and your opponents get the better shot on him, leaving Norra with a subpar shot.

Yeah, I can see that. I'd suggest you'd want a formation something like:

J N

B

There won't be a whole lot of requirement for Biggs and Norra to run into each other. When I was running my Heff/Norra/Biggs list, I flew kind of like that and didn't have any issues with it. It'd probably be even easier with Jess.

****...I think i need to run this Jess/Norra/Biggs list now. It's really just replacing Heff with Jess, but I'd probably end up with more offense from Jess than I ever got out of Heff. I've had this in the hopper since before I ran Heff, but I really wanted to make a U-Wing work at the time. I never came up with a good use of the last 3 points.

Biggs Darklighter (25)
R3-A2 (2)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Norra Wexley (29)
Push the Limit (3)
Tail Gunner (2)
R2-D2 (4)
Vectored Thrusters (2)
Alliance Overhaul (0)

Jess Pava (25)
M9-G8 (3)
Pattern Analyzer (2)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Total: 97

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

1 minute ago, gennataos said:

Yeah, I can see that. I'd suggest you'd want a formation something like:

J N

B

There won't be a whole lot of requirement for Biggs and Norra to run into each other. When I was running my Heff/Norra/Biggs list, I flew kind of like that and didn't have any issues with it. It'd probably be even easier with Jess.

****...I think i need to run this Jess/Norra/Biggs list now. It's really just replacing Heff with Jess, but I'd probably end up with more offense from Jess than I ever got out of Heff. I've had this in the hopper since before I ran Heff, but I really wanted to make a U-Wing work at the time. I never came up with a good use of the last 3 points.

Biggs Darklighter (25)
R3-A2 (2)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Norra Wexley (29)
Push the Limit (3)
Tail Gunner (2)
R2-D2 (4)
Vectored Thrusters (2)
Alliance Overhaul (0)

Jess Pava (25)
M9-G8 (3)
Pattern Analyzer (2)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Total: 97

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Haha, right? that's the thing - what do you do with those 3 points. Fair point about running Biggs behind Jess and not worrying about it, I build the Norra/Biggs part first, and then shoehorned Jess in there. I'm still not sold on the Tailgunner, and now I'm wondering if Sabine might work on Norra. It might even be worth it to drop the stressbot down to just a 1pt so you could put clusters/conners + EM on Norra. Though she might do better with Thermals in all honesty.

Waste of Norra's ability to give her bombs, imo

2 minutes ago, Greebwahn said:

Waste of Norra's ability to give her bombs, imo

How so? Especially if they're actionless ones.

2 minutes ago, Khyros said:

Haha, right? that's the thing - what do you do with those 3 points. Fair point about running Biggs behind Jess and not worrying about it, I build the Norra/Biggs part first, and then shoehorned Jess in there. I'm still not sold on the Tailgunner, and now I'm wondering if Sabine might work on Norra. It might even be worth it to drop the stressbot down to just a 1pt so you could put clusters/conners + EM on Norra. Though she might do better with Thermals in all honesty.

If your goal is the have Norra as your endgame ship, you definitely want tail gunner. I've been trying out some double-ARC lists, which don't have tail gunner, and they really struggle to put through damage out of the rear arc without it. With it, a PtL Norra is fearsome from the rear arc.

But. Yeah. I'm kind of digging that Sabine idea.

Maybe this?

Biggs Darklighter (25)
R4-D6 (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Norra Wexley (29)
Push the Limit (3)
Extra Munitions (2)
Sabine Wren (2)
R2-D2 (4)
Seismic Charges (2)
Vectored Thrusters (2)
Alliance Overhaul (0)

Jess Pava (25)
M9-G8 (3)
Pattern Analyzer (2)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

2 minutes ago, gennataos said:

If your goal is the have Norra as your endgame ship, you definitely want tail gunner. I've been trying out some double-ARC lists, which don't have tail gunner, and they really struggle to put through damage out of the rear arc without it. With it, a PtL Norra is fearsome from the rear arc.

But. Yeah. I'm kind of digging that Sabine idea.

Have you really had much success with tail gunner though? Every time I've run it, I pretty much get laughed at by anyone with the Evade action, go go primary weapon power 2!

9 minutes ago, Khyros said:

Have you really had much success with tail gunner though? Every time I've run it, I pretty much get laughed at by anyone with the Evade action, go go primary weapon power 2!

Oh yeah. Target Lock, PtL to Focus and you have a guaranteed added crit, so that's using their evade token right there. There are bunch of situational circumstances, though. Sometimes the dice may crap out on you and it's better to save the TL/Focus for defense. But....man, when you get a range 1 rear arc shot and get all natural paint, then turn that into least 3 hits and a crit and they're rolling 1 fewer green die? That's a thing of beauty.

22 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Oh yeah. Target Lock, PtL to Focus and you have a guaranteed added crit, so that's using their evade token right there. There are bunch of situational circumstances, though. Sometimes the dice may crap out on you and it's better to save the TL/Focus for defense. But....man, when you get a range 1 rear arc shot and get all natural paint, then turn that into least 3 hits and a crit and they're rolling 1 fewer green die? That's a thing of beauty.

^ I agree with this one hundred percent. When you use Norra's ability offensively in the end game it HAS to count. 2-3 hits + crit + tail gunner makes that happen. Otherwise you'll just slowly fly to your death as they whittle you down.

Yeah, other than Dancing Norra who needs Kyle, Tail Gunner is just great. While Sabine and maneuver bombs have a certain appeal, I'd rather capitalize on her natural primary weapon ability.

The Norra build I have been using lately that can really push the damage through is

Norra, Rage, BB-8, Experimental Interface, Inspiring Recruit, Alliance Overhaul

Usually pushes the Damage through pretty well and can do a bit of dodging too...and comes away with no stress. However, Norra without regen as an end ship is a slow death no matter what.

That gives you three stress a turn, how do you clear it?

BB-8 Roll, EI to Rage, three stress, clears 2 from green, has one, didn't get the target lock, can't BB-8 next turn...am I missing something?

While a Tail Gunner on other ARCs can be pretty important, Norra can still do a normal 3 hit shot in her back arc by using her pilot ability (and could potentially still have a focus for defending afterwards depending on dice). Norra can definitely get away with other crew slots and her tail gun will still be quite effective. I've used 3p0 for most of my Norra's flight time and she's still gotten a ton of kills with her aux arc.

16 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

While a Tail Gunner on other ARCs can be pretty important, Norra can still do a normal 3 hit shot in her back arc by using her pilot ability (and could potentially still have a focus for defending afterwards depending on dice). Norra can definitely get away with other crew slots and her tail gun will still be quite effective. I've used 3p0 for most of my Norra's flight time and she's still gotten a ton of kills with her aux arc.

I haven't run C-3PO that much on Norra because I usually run her with Biggs and figure I'd rather have that extra offensive punch. I've yet to have a game where Norra is my endgame ship and I've lost, so I don't know if how I fly Norra, or the lists I fly her in, it's necessary. I can certainly see the value of C-3PO in non-Biggs lists, though.