13 minutes ago, barrufet said:

Sorry, I didn't explained myself well enough. I was meaning using the Ring of Water effect to ready the Challenger that the Brawled had previously bowed.

Yeah, I misread you. Water use to unbow has basically never happened yet in my games so it didn't occur to me. That would have worked against Lion passing. Still, Lion got to 7 MIL in the real conflict so it would have won without breaking the province, Lion wins the ring and nothing happens with it *. Crane didn't have MIL pumps, otherwise it could have been used in the real conflict to force the Master of the Spears ability (which would have let the Gift Giver defend against the Historian).

EDIT The actual path in this case is probably Banzai on the bowed LPB to make it 7, bow Hotaru, then the Master wins 3 to 0 and takes the province and has the Historian left against an bowed-out board.

7 minutes ago, williamobrien said:

Yeah, I misread you. Water use to unbow has basically never happened yet in my games so it didn't occur to me. That would have worked against Lion passing. Still, Lion got to 7 MIL in the real conflict so it would have won without breaking the province, Lion wins the ring and nothing happens with it. Crane didn't have MIL pumps, otherwise it could have been used in the real conflict to force the Master of the Spears ability.

I do admit that it is certainly difficult to judge the outcome of the conflict without knowing the exact state of the board and the hands of the players. To call an end to this nice chat (at least from my own side), I'd just stress that the only point I wanted to make is that either a) Lion gained advantage previously [3 useful cards Vs only 1 played by Crane] or b) the Crane could have played the situation better. Also, given that Hotaru was already screwed (as you stated in a previous post) it only makes sense to me to use her on defence.

And many many thanks for the constant update on this particular gameplay :-)

1 minute ago, barrufet said:

I do admit that it is certainly difficult to judge the outcome of the conflict without knowing the exact state of the board and the hands of the players. To call an end to this nice chat (at least from my own side), I'd just stress that the only point I wanted to make is that either a) Lion gained advantage previously [3 useful cards Vs only 1 played by Crane] or b) the Crane could have played the situation better. Also, given that Hotaru was already screwed (as you stated in a previous post) it only makes sense to me to use her on defence.

And many many thanks for the constant update on this particular gameplay :-)

The real thing you learn by playing games is that having to defend SUCKS, but you have to do it

A lot of the most effective tricks are offense only, so defending you get MIL pumps, For Shame, the occasional Duelist Training (difficult in MIL challenges, awesome in POL) and that's basically it. Sometimes even good 2-way cards like Voice of Honor are occasionally dead, as it would have been here with the presence of the Historian preventing it. If Historian isn't in play and Crane plays Voice of Honor on Banzai, everything plays out differently.

It's why province effects are such a big deal. They are the best defensive cards and some of them are just disheartening for the attacker.

2 hours ago, williamobrien said:

They are the best defensive cards and some of them are just disheartening for the attacker.

How would you rate them so far? I was originally pretty high on Night Raid, but after a couple of games I'm inclined to say Pilgrimage is better.

1 minute ago, Casanunda said:

How would you rate them so far? I was originally pretty high on Night Raid, but after a couple of games I'm inclined to say Pilgrimage is better.

Night Raid is great for the stronghold, assuming your opponent doesn't have a chance to scout it out first. On a normal province, it probably is only taking 2 cards which isn't that big of a deal.

Pilgrimage and Shameful Display are the two best. Which one is better is basically down to circumstance. Shameful Display's value might vary if other factions have lower glory than Lion/Crane, while I think Pilgrimage's is pretty consistent. Both are a little weaker in MIL challenges where there are more boosts to overcome them.

Elemental Fury is pretty good, though the one-time nature of it makes it worse than the other two. It messes up plans pretty well. Things might go downhill if it gives the attacker the fate on the ring you switch to. Air is the usual switch and sometimes it's sitting there with several fate on it.

I think The Art of War has a lower ceiling than The Art of Peace, but a higher floor. Both are good.

I'm curious as to what Shameful Display's ring will end up being, since it has such a similar effect to The Art of Peace (Air) but the effect seems like it should be Fire. If Crane don't actually get to run both it is a little bit of a letdown for them. Display would be the one to keep.

5 hours ago, williamobrien said:

The real thing you learn by playing games is that having to defend SUCKS, but you have to do it

A lot of the most effective tricks are offense only

I guess this is specially true in the case of the Lion clan, having a number of characters with abilities that only trigger when (MIL) attacking. Other clans may have characters with less powerful actions but with larger applicability. Most of the Cranes work this way, being the Challenger a notable exception --and possibly one of the best Crane characters available.

And talking about abilities restrictions, I think we definitely need to get more familiar with the cards, at least I certainly need it. I was wrong in my previous post when saying that Hotaru could trigger her ability in your case scenario: the conflict was MIL and her ability only triggers in POL. However, I think my point still stands and her presence in the battle may end up being more beneficial than detrimental in a balanced scenario where none of the contendants have levered a significant advantage beforehand (i.e. one player having a notably larger number of conflict cards available), specially considering that she was screwed up just by the layout of the Lion's army attacking plan. Going a bit further back, perhaps the Crane error in your case scenario was purchasing Hotaru a turn when the player knew she couldn't be effectively played. Perhaps the other options on dinasty allowed for a better course of events... But this is simply a pointless exercise of card-fiction right now... :-P

I'm taking home that the combination of Brawler+Water on the first attack of the turn seems pretty powerful, perhaps even more than what I initially expected. Fortunately we only expect the Lion to be first player half of the turns. And not to always have the Brawler on the board ;-) :-D

williamobrien, BordOne, Togashi Gao Shan and others: I very much appreciate your reports and different takes on the game. Would it be possible to see some decklists? I'd like to see how some players are valuing/devaluing certain cards.

Keep the game play takes coming!

1 hour ago, Anemura said:

williamobrien, BordOne, Togashi Gao Shan and others: I very much appreciate your reports and different takes on the game. Would it be possible to see some decklists? I'd like to see how some players are valuing/devaluing certain cards.

Keep the game play takes coming!

I'll try to recreate deck lists of the initial versions and the more recent ones with Crab cards splashed. I just took everything apart in preparation for hopefully playing tomorrow night with a friend (longtime Lion player) who is eager to try out the new game. At the very least, I should be able to post the newest versions' deck lists, and some reports of how our game(s) go.

I tried to make a cleaner version of Ikoma Prodigy. Anyone have any different / better guesses as to what her stats are?

4 hours ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

I tried to make a cleaner version of Ikoma Prodigy. Anyone have any different / better guesses as to what her stats are?

I think she's a 0/2. From the showcase image, the MIL is definitely a 0, and the POL is too blurry to read but it looks more like the 2 from Lion's Pride Brawler than the 1 for Honored General.

1 hour ago, williamobrien said:

I think she's a 0/2

Definitely 0/2, no question in my mind.

Better?