5 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

Ok? And?

I've seen people complain on this forum about the stupidest things, I have no faith people wouldn't complain about that.

I think you overestimate the inventiveness of an average card game player. Usually if they see something they don't like they will complain endlessly, however it is not often that they will complain about LACK of anything aside from the counters to strategy they don't like.

Unless it is me underestimating the L5R fans...

Also, as much as I love the Lion getting tainty and stuff..can we stop calling it "Reanimator"..the Kitsu is communing with their ancestors, its not Shahai, right? Right?

next thing we know, everyone will be calling this "NuL5r"..

..oh wait...

Just now, Bayushi Bajie said:

Also, as much as I love the Lion getting tainty and stuff..can we stop calling it "Reanimator"..the Kitsu is communing with their ancestors, its not Shahai, right? Right?

How do we know? I mean there was that Kitsu Tombs thing back in the day.

Glad they used Aimi's artwork for the Ikoma.

This brings an interesting thought - if reanimator tech is Lion theme now, I wonder what does it mean for Shadowlands.

Just now, WHW said:

This brings an interesting thought - if reanimator tech is Lion theme now, I wonder what does it mean for Shadowlands.

Maybe it means we get to corrupt the Lion now! Regardless, I do really like how they're representing the Kitsu so far.

3 minutes ago, BordOne said:

I think you overestimate the inventiveness of an average card game player. Usually if they see something they don't like they will complain endlessly, however it is not often that they will complain about LACK of anything aside from the counters to strategy they don't like.

Unless it is me underestimating the L5R fans...

I think it's more you're underestimating how far people are willing to complain about things.

I'm sure I could make a joke about people complaining about the lack of people with dark skin, but I feel I'd only start a whole nothing conversation in here.

I had no interest in this playing Lion (theme doesn't interest me).

Then I see recursion shenanigans.

****.

5 minutes ago, qwertyuiop said:

You can only have one Toturi in play at a time. That's not to say there's no potential benefit with your idea.

The only time a 1 point difference in influence isn't that great compared to relative power value is when there are no cards with a low enough cost to slot in. It's a pretty significant difference.

But the Dynasty rules say you may not buy a unique character if you already have one in your home, during a conflict they are not at home, they are at the conflict? Granted the actual wording maybe (and hopefully is better) but the wording in the article leaves the possibility alive does it not?

11 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

For Greater Glory doesn't necessarily need to be a 3x, as 2x is worth looking into. That still leaves room for other splashes too.

For Reanimator, I think that's way way way too slow to abuse the ability myself. You want to pay for Eiji or the Spiritcaller and not for the targets. That was part of the point behind the name. The three major ones look to be Toturi, the general, and Master of the Spear.

The Deathseeker could be a good one as well, 2 mil 3 with SH can almost take most provinces alone, or be thrown into political conflicts so that if you lose you can strip some fate or characters out. but that would depending on the timing between the kitsu spirit caller and the Deathseeker

I see every calling out how strong the lion decks are, but no one has mentioned their cards' greatest flaw. Most of their card abilities are predicated on being more honorable than their opponent, but outside of bidding low and rings their only way of increasing honor is honoring characters when they win conflicts, and that is even limited. If the opponent can out honor them, which crane is capable, and/or keep them from winning attacks, the lion deck is hosed. This also doesn't mention their political power short coming.

Just now, RandomJC said:

I think it's more you're underestimating how far people are willing to complain about things.

I'm sure I could make a joke about people complaining about the lack of people with dark skin, but I feel I'd only start a whole nothing conversation in here.

You could but it isn't exactly the same, since this topic tends to rise up in higly liberal communities and L5R community seems to be dominated by this worldview(talking with only 1 month of experience tho). I think it is few level of ridiculousness lower than complaining about nonexistent cards.

1 minute ago, BordOne said:

As a former Magic player seeing Kitsu Spiritcaller and her potential I would lie if I say I didn't get a hard on.

I am slightly worried she might limit design space for Lion tho, but right now soo good

Maybe, but i think it will be more limiting our actions on characters, 2 strong of an action that can be reccured could be a problem, I wonder if we will get 1-2 more cards to really make recursion work more consitently soon or if it will take a year or longer after release

Just now, BordOne said:

You could but it isn't exactly the same, since this topic tends to rise up in higly liberal communities and L5R community seems to be dominated by this worldview(talking with only 1 month of experience tho). I think it is few level of ridiculousness lower than complaining about nonexistent cards.

I didn't say it was the same, just making a play on what you said. It was meant to be humourous not serious.

You did want me to be easy.

9 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

I'm sure I could make a joke about people complaining about the lack of people with dark skin, but I feel I'd only start a whole nothing conversation in here.

Once again, there is no need for this sort of post. These continual jabs at others on this forum is disheartening and rude.

This sentence you posted above belongs in the other thread, if at all.

Wow. Just wow.

17 minutes ago, Tetsuro said:

Is that how it was retconned? I sort of lost track of how many times they hacked apart the old guys about the time they inexplicably pushed the guy that stapled his son to a war banner to gain demon allies as some sort of misunderstood hero.

It was retconned a bunch of times. The art of A Final Duel clearly shows Toturi with a clear shot at just killing him fair and square. The (non-canon) Scorpion novel goes with the backstab. Imperial Histories 1 just says "Shoju is killed in a duel with Toturi".

8 minutes ago, Akodo_Metuki said:

Maybe, but i think it will be more limiting our actions on characters, 2 strong of an action that can be reccured could be a problem, I wonder if we will get 1-2 more cards to really make recursion work more consitently soon or if it will take a year or longer after release

Yeah that's what I am talking about. I am not so worried about passive effects thanks to it being sacrificed after the conflict, but "enters the battlefield" or "wins the conflict" type of effects might be limited in Lion because of that card existing.

I think they will, looking at what they do in agot(trying to give few archetypes to every house).

8 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

I didn't say it was the same, just making a play on what you said. It was meant to be humourous not serious.

You did want me to be easy.

I tend to needlessly go into pure logic mode sometimes

2 minutes ago, LordBlunt said:

Once again, there is no need for this sort of post. These continual jabs at others on this forum is disheartening and rude.

This sentence you posted above belongs in the other thread, if at all.

Wow. Just wow.

Hm, well, I suppose. It was not an intent on my part to give an opinion one way or the other to the topic on hand, nor was it meant to denigrate the issue. It was a play at the previous posters saying that people didn't complain at the "lack" of things besides counters and tokens.

5 minutes ago, LordBlunt said:

Once again, there is no need for this sort of post. These continual jabs at others on this forum is disheartening and rude.

This sentence you posted above belongs in the other thread, if at all.

Wow. Just wow.

I don't think you should be giving his words so much weight here. He was just reaching for fast counter argument.

1 hour ago, JRosen9 said:

I'm not seeing where the issue is. Just browsing quickly through the lions, outside of Toturi, none of them have military higher than 3. That means Kaezin starts on equal footing with nearly all of them. If Kaezin is honored (which isn't hard to do in crane, he starts at 5 military. The only other duel we know of is Duelist training and you can put that on whoever you want. Lion's military strength comes from their numbers and not their raw stats so I'm not really seeing the issue with dueling against lion (outside of Toturi).

Except the Lion have Honored General - which is 3 mil, 2 glory, and is honored automatically entering play... and isn't unique, so they could have multiple out where the Crane only have Kaezin as a unique and must still honor Kaezen to reach his potential...

So... I think my point still stands...

2 minutes ago, BordOne said:

I don't think you should be giving his words so much weight here. He was just reaching for fast counter argument.

well, more like trying to make a joke without making a joke because I didn't have a joke.

but that works too. But also good idea to not give my words so much weight period.

1 minute ago, shosuko said:

Except the Lion have Honored General - which is 3 mil, 2 glory, and is honored automatically entering play... and isn't unique, so they could have multiple out where the Crane only have Kaezin as a unique and must still honor Kaezen to reach his potential...

So... I think my point still stands...

I agree with you. Honored General is more expensive than him though. Also honoring a character is not much problem for Crane

28 minutes ago, Bayushi Bajie said:

Also, as much as I love the Lion getting tainty and stuff..can we stop calling it "Reanimator"..the Kitsu is communing with their ancestors, its not Shahai, right?

It always bugged me that the undead archetype in Old L5R was always "Breeder." These people must have flunked hard out of Sex Ed.

I love all these cards for Lion! I have certainly found my clan for the first portion of the new game's life - and it was the clan I started with way back in 1995! Mind you, I left for awhile but it'll be fun to reboot my Lion Clan deck!

With regard to Way of The Lion being worse than Banzai! Doesn't Banzai! require you to lose honor? As a Lion player I don't think I want to do that, do I?

Sidenote: Where can we see all the cards that have been revealed so far? Anyone have a database?

Thanks!

I understand why people think Tutori's ability is boring or unoriginal - since he and Hotaru have the exact same ability - BUT this is core set and they are trying to set a balanced standard. I think it works well. If anything - I think Crane players should feel disappointed in Hotaru who doesn't have Sashimono to maximize it. Toturi is FAR superior to Hotaru even though the abilities are the same because of this card being in-clan.

1 minute ago, Kanpeki said:

I love all these cards for Lion! I have certainly found my clan for the first portion of the new game's life - and it was the clan I started with way back in 1995! Mind you, I left for awhile but it'll be fun to reboot my Lion Clan deck!

With regard to Way of The Lion being worse than Banzai! Doesn't Banzai! require you to lose honor? As a Lion player I don't think I want to do that, do I?

Sidenote: Where can we see all the cards that have been revealed so far? Anyone have a database?

Thanks!

http://l5r.gamepedia.com/Core_Set