As I've said, if we want to get rid of me just to dispel lingering doubts, lets do this thing.

I'd like to think that in genera I'm worth more alive than dead, but I doubt anything I say will be convincing. If we're going to do this, here's my suspicions and gut reads:

Truthiness reads village to me, for reasons I've said before.

Norell and CNinja are ambiguous to me. CNinja is the most suspicious, but neither are particularly village sounding. I'm especially wary of CNinja claiming to have followed truthiness and then to have seen the thing that truthiness already claimed to have done. Could be a confirmation of truthiness, could be a corner attempt to fake a role.

The three vanilla claims other than me I don't have a good read on, but i generally feel more village- y about them. It's too early for me to have more well - founded suspicions.

All things considered I'd like to get rid of CNinja, but since that doesn't seem to be an option, I'll just close with an admonition to watch CNinja closely

29 minutes ago, Onidsen said:

I'm especially wary of CNinja claiming to have followed truthiness and then to have seen the thing that truthiness already claimed to have done.

I Tracked Truthiness last night.

Got " Truthiness visits Norell." That is it. I never claimed anything else.

You're either really clever to change the font color for the quote to make it look like a copy and paste, or you legitimately copy and pasted. Either way, I think Norell is the right way to go.

What I was hoping for, in waiting for Norell's claim for the night, was that, if he was blocked, I would be able to confirm it was Truthiness. As it stands, all I can go on is what I saw, which is that Truthiness visited Norell last night. (I ask everyone, what other traitor reason would Truthiness visit Norell for if not to role block? I seriously don't know. Does a deflector have to "visit" another player? )

My vote will probably be Onidsen, unless there are any other arguments. Hopefully that gets us the other half of the Hyperdrive.

Onisden is a lower risk proposition since he's claiming generic townie. I still think 4 power roles is one too many to be believable, making Norell the more likely prospect of the two. If we go Onisden today and we're wrong, Norell has my vote out of the gate. Of course, I doubt I will survive the night.

@Madaghmire can be get a vote count and time hack? I've lost track of both.

~21 1/2 hours until night.

7 Alive, 4 to Hammer

The Quick;

@Visovics -

@Onidsen -

@CaribbeanNinja -

@ovinomanc3r -

@GhostofNobodyInParticular -

@Truthiness -

@Norell -

The Dead;

Biggs, JJ

Oh wow, I didn't realize we had zero votes.

I believe theres been only two today and both were unvoted.

Sorry, I was playing Madness mansion all the afternoon and now I am going to sleep.

Hopefully tomorrow morning I could join the conversation.

Alright, time summarize my cases.

My top suspect right now is Norell. He exposed his supposed power role during the first day, and yet there was no kill attempt against him last night. I suspected the Scum might kill JJ to cast myself in a suspicious light, but put my protection on Norell because of the power role claim. Obviously I made the wrong call in shifting my protection. The only reason I can see for the Scum to not target Norell is that he is Scum and wanted to cast myself in a negative light. Yes, he was in on the Biggs kill, but it's a well known play to kill your fellow Scum if things look inevitable. With Ninja's reveal and JJ's confirmed power role, that puts us at 4 power roles (Ninja- tracker, myself-doc, JJ-flavor cop, and Norell-"watcher"), which seems like far too many for nine people.

Next on my list is Onisden. He jumped right on me as I expected the Scum to do after JJ's death. He's since backed off and I respect he's willing to axe himself. However, that could easily have been a last, desperate ploy to get the spotlight off of him. He's claimed to be a vanilla townie, so axing him is low risk at the very least. He was on Biggs' "totally townie" list, which you can interpret as either Biggs trying to protect his fellow Scum, or as casing doubt on an innocent townie. Take your pick.

Finally, CNinja claims to have watched me last night and witnessed me go to Norell, seemingly confirming my story of protecting Norell. However, that could have easily have been put together from my own post early in the day. He claims he was waiting on Norell to see if he was blocked, which is plausible. Due to some other context clues, I think Ninja is the least likely of my suspects, but is worth keeping an eye on.

time *to* summarize

We actually need some votes, now, people. This isn't good going into the last stretch of the day with no votes.

Since nobody's doing anything on that front, I'll vote for my top suspicion. Not likely it will mean anything, but hopefully it will kickstart discussion again.

##vote CaribbeanNinja

I also think that of all our claimed roles, CNinja could do a simple claim and use the others to have something plausible.

I think Norell is telling the truth

I would feel bad if we lynched a medic without proof

I think Oni was setup

##vote CaribbeanNinja

7 hours ago, Truthiness said:

Alright, time summarize my cases.

My top suspect right now is Norell. He exposed his supposed power role during the first day, and yet there was no kill attempt against him last night. I suspected the Scum might kill JJ to cast myself in a suspicious light, but put my protection on Norell because of the power role claim. Obviously I made the wrong call in shifting my protection. The only reason I can see for the Scum to not target Norell is that he is Scum and wanted to cast myself in a negative light. Yes, he was in on the Biggs kill, but it's a well known play to kill your fellow Scum if things look inevitable. With Ninja's reveal and JJ's confirmed power role, that puts us at 4 power roles (Ninja- tracker, myself-doc, JJ-flavor cop, and Norell-"watcher"), which seems like far too many for nine people.

Next on my list is Onisden. He jumped right on me as I expected the Scum to do after JJ's death. He's since backed off and I respect he's willing to axe himself. However, that could easily have been a last, desperate ploy to get the spotlight off of him. He's claimed to be a vanilla townie, so axing him is low risk at the very least. He was on Biggs' "totally townie" list, which you can interpret as either Biggs trying to protect his fellow Scum, or as casing doubt on an innocent townie. Take your pick.

Finally, CNinja claims to have watched me last night and witnessed me go to Norell, seemingly confirming my story of protecting Norell. However, that could have easily have been put together from my own post early in the day. He claims he was waiting on Norell to see if he was blocked, which is plausible. Due to some other context clues, I think Ninja is the least likely of my suspects, but is worth keeping an eye on.

Well any Mafia would expect the doc (if there was one, and why not play it safe) to protect the only known power role, so attacking him would have been an action of futility, no?

I dunno, I think it's rather weak as an argument against Norell. But I do somewhat agree with the too many power roles thing. Unless there are two scumbags remaining. . .

Also, it would make sense for the captain to have a power role. . . but I'm still a bit suspicious of CNinja.

And Onidsen could indeed be a scumbag, but he also has the sense of being set up. . . .

::sigh:: There are two votes on CNinja already. I think it a better to know off either Norell or Onidsen, given that they are higher on the suspicious list, and have weaker/no abilities.

We have to vote though, so what do you suggest?

I also have a sense that there are more roles in this game than usual. I am very suspicious about CNinja but it wouldn't make much sense story-wise to leave the captain without a power role, so I think it would be a safer bet now to lynch Onidsen. But if the majority feels it should be CNinja I can support that too, I just think it's riskier than Oni.

2 minutes ago, Norell said:

I also have a sense that there are more roles in this game than usual. I am very suspicious about CNinja but it wouldn't make much sense story-wise to leave the captain without a power role, so I think it would be a safer bet now to lynch Onidsen. But if the majority feels it should be CNinja I can support that too, I just think it's riskier than Oni.

I think it would be weird to have a 4:3 power to vanilla ratio, but it also is pretty balanced, but at the same time, we don't know how powerful the mafia are, as Biggs being taken out did not give us any roles he had, and no one received ANY actions at night which is rather weird

7 hours ago, Truthiness said:

Alright, time summarize my cases.

My top suspect right now is Norell. He exposed his supposed power role during the first day, and yet there was no kill attempt against him last night. I suspected the Scum might kill JJ to cast myself in a suspicious light, but put my protection on Norell because of the power role claim. Obviously I made the wrong call in shifting my protection. The only reason I can see for the Scum to not target Norell is that he is Scum and wanted to cast myself in a negative light. Yes, he was in on the Biggs kill, but it's a well known play to kill your fellow Scum if things look inevitable. With Ninja's reveal and JJ's confirmed power role, that puts us at 4 power roles (Ninja- tracker, myself-doc, JJ-flavor cop, and Norell-"watcher"), which seems like far too many for nine people.

Next on my list is Onisden. He jumped right on me as I expected the Scum to do after JJ's death. He's since backed off and I respect he's willing to axe himself. However, that could easily have been a last, desperate ploy to get the spotlight off of him. He's claimed to be a vanilla townie, so axing him is low risk at the very least. He was on Biggs' "totally townie" list, which you can interpret as either Biggs trying to protect his fellow Scum, or as casing doubt on an innocent townie. Take your pick.

Finally, CNinja claims to have watched me last night and witnessed me go to Norell, seemingly confirming my story of protecting Norell. However, that could have easily have been put together from my own post early in the day. He claims he was waiting on Norell to see if he was blocked, which is plausible. Due to some other context clues, I think Ninja is the least likely of my suspects, but is worth keeping an eye on.

I am on this track too with an obvious difference. You are in the list too. But I am not going to blame you for not putting yourself there.

Caribbean really turned the things in my head and not sure about how I feel about it.

The most likely scenario: 1 scum left, two roles left (flavor cop dead)

(Claiming order)

Option A

Norell lie. Truthiness and CNinja say the true. JJ had to die to incriminate Truthiness. As watcher he should watch the most likely targets: himself and JJ. He couldn't do it cause he had no clue about a possible doc who was going to visit him, and he would be asked about who visit JJ, who died. If he claimed to visit one of those two he would be probably done. So he "visited" Onidsen and claimed a mistake between watcher and tracker.

Option B

Truthiness lie. Norell and CNinja say the true. Something has to explain then the visit to Norell but blocker is not the answer. I think CNinja forgot a redirect role. Truthiness wanted to kill JJ to incriminate himself as a trick. With a watcher around, he must be redirected, just in case, so he redirected Norell to Onidsen. Norell was watching Onidsen anyway so nothing really happened but CNinja got his result. Actually Norell could watch someone else but himself (he would be watched Truhtiness redirecting him) or Truthiness (he would be watched CNinja tracking). Anyway when someone is redirected I suppose he doesn't know it so Norell still think he watched Onidsen. If not, redirector would be a really poor role. Why Truthiness didn't kill Norell as he couldn't claim he saw him cause would be dead? Cause he suspected about a tracker maybe, who could track him or Norell. He claimed without pressure just I case someone tracked him and se he visited Norell. Not dying, doc was the best thing to claim.

Option C

Onidsen lie. Someone else should be lying cause the roles numbers but something must explain CNinja's result. What could point to a third faction maybe. He could redirect (if there is a redirector) Norell to himself to be sure he was not cought. Or Norell is the another liar. Or CNinja is. This case is more confuse for me if we agree with the scenario I discuss here. However he killed JJ with impunity cause everyone one else choose the wrong target to do their roles. He has to incriminate someone else cause Biggs list put here in a weak position. Why they did that? Maybe they didn't think Biggs was going to be lynched at d1 and the built the list to turn the names on there later.as I said this case has too vague points right now IMHO.

Option D

CNinja lie. Truhiness and Norell say the true. He claimed last (weakest claim) and just claimed something already claimed by Truhiness. He even asked about a blocker to reinforce his claim as well meaning but he forgot a possible redirector. I wouldn't blame him for that. Why he claimed? Cause things started to move against him. Why? Cause a not too clever post that Ghost noticed and pointed. But why he posted it while everything was going so well with Norell, Truthiness and Onidsen? That is weird and he is not my n1 suspect. However I could think that as he put Onidsen at h-1 and ghost then unvoted to give him a chance, CNinja unvoted too quickly and, maybe scared, wrote the post as a excuse like "we'll, yeah, maybe we wait until Norell". We should check if the order of events was that cause now I am working from memory (yes, Visovics, again... ). Anyway for me it still being a weak explanation.

Someone else is lying. See Onidsen but with less clues even.

For me right now and considering this scenario it would be:

Norell > Truthiness / Onidsen > CNinja

I would like to hear your thoughts cause I really don't want to kill our watcher (if Norell didn't point to CNinja so quickly it means he claimed definitively watcher). For me Norell is the simplest case as Visovics was last game, that is my poor reason to put him first. I have to check votes on Biggs again but... morning things call me

I will try to think about the plausible scenario of 2 scum left and write it later.

19 minutes ago, Visovics said:

I think it would be weird to have a 4:3 power to vanilla ratio, but it also is pretty balanced, but at the same time, we don't know how powerful the mafia are, as Biggs being taken out did not give us any roles he had, and no one received ANY actions at night which is rather weird

Hmm

Maybe three vanilla scum??

Is it possible?

3 hours ago, Onidsen said:

Since nobody's doing anything on that front, I'll vote for my top suspicion. Not likely it will mean anything, but hopefully it will kickstart discussion again.

##vote CaribbeanNinja

12.5 Hours is the last stretch?

1 hour ago, Visovics said:

I also think that of all our claimed roles, CNinja could do a simple claim and use the others to have something plausible.

I think Norell is telling the truth

I would feel bad if we lynched a medic without proof

I think Oni was setup

##vote CaribbeanNinja

Sigh. I really hate that I'm "the least believable" here. It is crazy to me.

On 6/16/2017 at 5:51 PM, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

##unvote Onidsen, just in case.

On 6/16/2017 at 5:51 PM, CaribbeanNinja said:

Actually, I want to be 100% sure

##unvote

Actually @ovinomanc3r I'm pretty sure GNIps just Ninja'd me there but I hadn't actually read his post. We posted these simultaneously.

18 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

For me right now and considering this scenario it would be:

Norell > Truthiness / Onidsen > CNinja

I would like to hear your thoughts cause I really don't want to kill our watcher (if Norell didn't point to CNinja so quickly it means he claimed definitively watcher). For me Norell is the simplest case as Visovics was last game, that is my poor reason to put him first. I have to check votes on Biggs again but... morning things call me

I will try to think about the plausible scenario of 2 scum left and write it later.

I'm ready to vote with you and @Truthiness on this against Norell if you are of this mindset.. My biggest question is...why would Norell vote for Biggs? Hell at the same time why would I @Onidsen and @Visovics ?

Why would it make any sense?

23 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Hmm

Maybe three vanilla scum??

Is it possible?

it is, would mean that EITHER: 2 vanilla 4 power roles, 3 Vanilla 3 Power roles, or 4 Vanilla 2 power roles and the scum are cohesively lying

Option 1 points to Oni, Ovi, Slippy, me

Option 2 points to everyone

Option 3 basically points to Cninja and Truth

Would be a very unlikely situation, but these are the possibilities.

I'm still inclined that there are 2 scum and 3 power roles

15 minutes ago, Visovics said:

it is, would mean that EITHER: 2 vanilla 4 power roles, 3 Vanilla 3 Power roles, or 4 Vanilla 2 power roles and the scum are cohesively lying

Option 1 points to Oni, Ovi, Slippy, me

Option 2 points to everyone

Option 3 basically points to Cninja and Truth

Would be a very unlikely situation, but these are the possibilities.

I'm still inclined that there are 2 scum and 3 power roles

2 scum left? Or total? Killing Onidsen is a more or less safe bet, as he has no power role, so if he's innocent we don't lose too much, and if he's a scum, we win easy. Granted, 4 power roles for 2 scum does seem a bit much, but if it's not Onidsen, then it's likely Norell and somebody else (CNinja? That's a combo no one mentioned). We have to be careful though, since if there are two scum and we lynch a good guy today, then in the morning we'll be 5, 3 goodies 2 scum.

While I distrust all the claims (to varying degrees, but still) I think we should give them another night to work. If we still are unsatisfied with the result, then we lynch the most unsatisfactory person.

Another thing to consider is that with JJ, we already had a cop, so out of a tracker and a watcher, which would be more redundant? The tracker tracks somebody's actions, the watcher sees who visited somebody. If we have a cop, who checks somebody's alignment, then do we need to check who followed/visited somebody? In previous games we have had 2 of those 3 roles. If JJ could see what people are, and a tracker sees what they do, and a watcher sees who they did it to, then which two go best together? Seeing what someone is and where they went, what someone is and who they did there action at, seeing where someone went and who they did it to?

I think the cop makes both other roles somewhat redundant, but the watcher is the weakest of the other two roles.

What are everyone's thoughts on this?