19 hours ago, Kdubb said:

There is a HUGE discussion on this on the nova fb page right now, as other rulings have shown that once the squad building portion is complete and you are in game, restrictions no longer apply (such as not losing your EPT when the EPT droid is discarded with integrated astromech, or getting the Tie shuttle title Boba'd wouldn't also discard the crew). If we are to follow this line of thinking, there is no restrictions when "building" with Vizago, and you should be able to strap on any illicit without regard to the restrictions.

Three add-on questions to this thought line.

1) By that reasoning, it would also bypass limitations like Unique. That would allow me to add a second *EMP Device midgame. Thoughts?

2) If this applies to Visago, then it also applies to Azmorigan. I know he's Epic (Huge Ship) Only, but let's follow it anyway. Azmorigan allows you to change out a Crew/Team for another of equal or lesser value. Can I sub out for a second copy of IG-88D?

3) Do both bypass another, even more overriding limitation: Faction Specific? Can I use Azmorigan (obviously playing as Scum) switch out a crew for C-3PO, or Rebel Captive?

Azmorigan does not seem to be limited to Once-Per-Turn and is not limited to doing these things on his own ship.

The real issue with the second & third questions is that FAQs generally only serve the tournament community and seldom apply to the epic.

On 6/14/2017 at 8:24 AM, Duciris said:

3) Do both bypass another, even more overriding limitation: Faction Specific? Can I use Azmorigan (obviously playing as Scum) switch out a crew for C-3PO, or Rebel Captive?

Obviously, you swap them out for Jan Dodonna and Grand Moff Tarkin and make them knife fight for your amusement.

1 hour ago, Duciris said:

Azmorigan does not seem to be limited to Once-Per-Turn and is not limited to doing these things on his own ship.

The once-per-opportunity rule limits him to once per turn. The Opportunity to use him is the start of the end phase, so you can only do it once at that time, then wait for the next round. And the "card *you* have equipped" limits it to his own ship.

Unless Vizago has a clause that allows him to ignore standard rules for Illicit upgrade Cards (hint he does not) he will not let a large ship swap on a "small ship only" Illicit on to a Large ship.

As a TO and Judge Noone will get away with trying it a any tournament Im running.

11 minutes ago, Holmelund said:

Unless Vizago has a clause that allows him to ignore standard rules for Illicit upgrade Cards (hint he does not) he will not let a large ship swap on a "small ship only" Illicit on to a Large ship.

As a TO and Judge Noone will get away with trying it a any tournament Im running.

Nor mine. Same as that Agressor title nonsense that no one in their right mind would have even attempted.

38 minutes ago, Toqtamish said:

Nor mine. Same as that Agressor title nonsense that no one in their right mind would have even attempted.

The difference is that the Aggressor title on the tie aggressor was completely and clearly legal according to the rules (even if it was unintended and made no sense, and is now faqed to be clearly not legal). Vizago has nothing saying it's legal, and no real indication that it would be legal even if unintended.

There aren't even rules for decloaking a Huge ship... what is this even?

What does '(to) equip' mean from the point of view of a pilot and the player? What does 'equipped' mean from the point of view of an upgrade card?

Does a ship 'equip' a card in the middle of a game when 'replace'ing another card for it? Is that card then 'equipped' to the pilot?

Do not look to Boba Fett or Integrated Astromech for your answers:

Discarded Cards

When a player is instructed to discard an Upgrade card, he or she flips it facedown instead. If a player is instructed to discard a Dual card, he or she places it under the Ship card it is attached to instead. Dual cards under a Ship card are considered facedown. Facedown Upgrade cards and Dual cards under Ship cards are out of play but remain equipped to their respective ships. They are not placed into a player’s score pile unless the ship to which they are equipped is destroyed.

This is the first instance of adding a new card to a game while the game is in progress. Previously the words 'equip' and 'equipped' only came into play during the list building stage, when discarding a card that provided a required slot came around specific clarifications(not errata) were issued for those instances. It has never been said that list building restrictions no longer apply, because you don't remove cards during list building. List building is not a sequential process, it cannot be codified in the same way as the game itself. When building a list you look to the sum of the parts to determine if something is legal. Not 'Pick Ryad, Equip HLC, Equip TIE/x7, Remove HLC'; but 'If I put /x7 on Ryad I wouldn't be able to put that HLC I wanted on her'.

Somewhat separate thought:

List building is separate from the game state. You can't play an 'illegal' list. Putting Cloaking Device on a large ship would make you list illegal. Nothing in Vizago's text states that its ok ignore card restrictions. Does you list becoming illegal in the middle of a match invalidate its earlier legality?

My conclusion? Azmorigan and Vizago were a bad idea. The rules architecture isn't there for them in competitive games.

1 hour ago, Jetfire said:

There aren't even rules for decloaking a Huge ship... what is this even?

Decloak rules are not size dependent. You would use a sideways speed 2 template for barrel rolling.

There are ways to have illegal builds in the game already with non-discard EPTs, R2-D6 and IA - devils advocate says this is similar. Wouldn't mind it to at least force some new decloak rules for large bases (probably 1 templates, still ridiculous).

6 hours ago, codegnave said:

My conclusion? Azmorigan and Vizago were a bad idea. The rules architecture isn't there for them in competitive games.

That's exactly how I feel about it too.

I mean the answer to the question,n the OP is most likely 'no' as per FFG's intent (especially due to Azmorrigan bringing in 'Imperial only' and 'Rebel only' crew), but there are no clear rules to point at to support this conclusion.

6 hours ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

There are ways to have illegal builds in the game already with non-discard EPTs, R2-D6 and IA - devils advocate says this is similar. Wouldn't mind it to at least force some new decloak rules for large bases (probably 1 templates, still ridiculous).

Thats the rub though, 'Facedown Upgrade cards and Dual cards under Ship cards are out of play but remain equipped to their respective ships.' Discarding R2-D6 doesn't remove its effect from the game since it allows its ship to Equip a card. A upgrade card doesn't care what slot the pilot has, its the pilot that cares what type of upgrade it is.

"UPGRADE CARDS

When building a squad, a player can field upgrades for his ships by paying their squad point cost, which is listed in the lower-right corner of each Upgrade card. The upgrade bar along the bottom of a Ship card displays icons that represent which upgrades that ship can equip. For each icon shown in the upgrade bar, the ship can equip one Upgrade card with the matching icon."

This only speaks to the Pilot's ability to equip an upgrade card, something that until now has been the exclusive domain of the list building part of the game. It says absolutely nothing about whether an upgrade card can be equipped to a pilot or not. These are separate concepts because of the text on certain cards restricting them to certain ship types.

Honestly that would mean that should R2-D6 be replaced in the same manner as Vizago the EPT would still stay there. The question then becomes what would happen if you switched TO R2-D6? And that still doesn't address whether you could switch to an otherwise illegal droid, since its the UTTER REMOVAL of a card and the COMPLETE ADDITION of another card that is the new mechanic. Where does this new card even come from in the game state? Its just... ugh. Its a clever idea IF it had come with new rules(reference card basically) to go with it.

Jabba states that the token goes on the illicit card, so if the card is replaced by Vizago, the token would go with the card, no?

On 13.6.2017 at 10:04 PM, Kdubb said:

There is a HUGE discussion on this on the nova fb page right now, as other rulings have shown that once the squad building portion is complete and you are in game, restrictions no longer apply (such as not losing your EPT when the EPT droid is discarded with integrated astromech, or getting the Tie shuttle title Boba'd wouldn't also discard the crew). If we are to follow this line of thinking, there is no restrictions when "building" with Vizago, and you should be able to strap on any illicit without regard to the restrictions.

Not the way I would probably rule on it as a TO, but if someone tries this at a tourney, don't be surprised if a TO rules in their favor.

C-ROC with cloaking device ftw!

Do what the Cards says and not anything else.

Vizago has not mention like: "The substituted Card does not follow standard guidelines" or any such other nonsense.

Anyone trying to argue that its possible is grasping for straws in order to game the system. Slap them gently in the back of their head and tell the to grow the feck up and play the game like its ment to be played.

3 hours ago, Holmelund said:

Do what the Cards says and not anything else.

Vizago has not mention like: "The substituted Card does not follow standard guidelines" or any such other nonsense.

Anyone trying to argue that its possible is grasping for straws in order to game the system. Slap them gently in the back of their head and tell the to grow the feck up and play the game like its ment to be played.

Cool.

I will "discard this card to replace a face-up illicit or cargo upgrade card I have equipped with another upgrade card of the same type of equal or fewer squad points."

Shadow Caster:
Glitterstim and EMP Device equipped.
Cikatro Vizago Crew equipped

Criteria met?
Is Glitterstim a face up illicit upgrade card? Yes.
Are Glitterstim and EMP Device the same type (illicit)? Yes.
Is Glitterstim equal to or fewer points than EMP? Yes.

I have done what Cikatro Vizago has instructed me to do for the desired effect.