12 hours ago, Stevey86 said:

To be fair, both of those cards had to be Rebel/Scum only.

PRS on Omega Leader and that cannon on a TIE/D would have both been ridiculous.

OL is nothing special if there are multiple ships shooting at him. There's precious little that can tell you where he'll be more transparently than an ion token. The downside is more than adequate in his case.

TIE/D is a fairer point, given the cost and double tap potential. (Which might have actually seen use) Or, you know, they could've just put "you cannot attack again this round" on the card. Hey, options.

15 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

A ship with access to fire control system is most certainly not buffed by an upgrade card which denies the use of target locks. It is literally anti-synergistic with the punisher.

But if the new "minefield map" system is taking the FCS slot, suddenly unguided rockets isnt so bad.

Maybe I'm just too picky, but even if unguided rockets combined with LWF make the Punisher a "good" ship; I'd still personally want an option that makes the Punisher a strong ordnance carrier. It's role is supposed to be a heavy weapons platform it would be nice if it could do that without being just a more expensive bomber, a title (or couple of titles) seems like a good option to make that happen regardless of what wave XI may bring.

37 minutes ago, benskywalker said:

Maybe I'm just too picky, but even if unguided rockets combined with LWF make the Punisher a "good" ship; I'd still personally want an option that makes the Punisher a strong ordnance carrier. It's role is supposed to be a heavy weapons platform it would be nice if it could do that without being just a more expensive bomber, a title (or couple of titles) seems like a good option to make that happen regardless of what wave XI may bring.

With bomblet generator it might have infinite bombs, and with unguided rockets it has infinite missiles. what more do you want?

1 hour ago, SEApocalypse said:

A ship with access to fire control system is most certainly not buffed by an upgrade card which denies the use of target locks. It is literally anti-synergistic with the punisher.

Theres...other system slots. Some are even good. Advanced sensors pairs quite well with unguided rockets for instance so you can focus before doing a red move or bumping

A box with a TIE Phantom and a TIE Punisher. Titles for both.

4 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

With bomblet generator it might have infinite bombs, and with unguided rockets it has infinite missiles. what more do you want?

I am interested in trying some cool builds once the Skurrg is fully released. LWF + Unguided Rockets + Bomblet generator + Sensor jammer (If this is pared with a shuttle of some sort that can have hotshot co-pilot) or whatever system suits your fancy if you want to increase bombing potential. Possibly minefield mapping depending on what that does.

this actually seems like a decent build, maybe not meta but I'm sure it won't be too far below par. Surely some better list builders than me can make this diamond in the rough shine with all the new upgrades from wave 11.

I don't necessarily subscribe to the belief that everything needs a title to be fixed so I hope someone can figure out something

@heychadwick knows that his "Tie Punisher Jason" will be able to break the ship if anybody can, I would love to hear the possibilities exposed by that crazy pilot

Good point.

21 hours ago, Stevey86 said:

To be fair, both of those cards had to be Rebel/Scum only.

PRS on Omega Leader and that cannon on a TIE/D would have both been ridiculous.

Please, Omega Leader is just another TIE. As soon he receives fire from more than one ship it melts like.... any other TIE. More so, being predictable and having to move 1 straight, without recovering stress.

And a /D defender could double-tap one round... IF... it is at range 1 of a target. For that matter, Corran Horn can do the same at any range, with better options/combos at his disposal due to system slot, and I don't see the "ridiculous tag" anywhere.

4 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

A box with a TIE Phantom and a TIE Punisher. Titles for both.

I'm sorry but I have to ask - what is wrong with the TIE Phantom?

22 hours ago, Stevey86 said:

To be fair, both of those cards had to be Rebel/Scum only.

PRS on Omega Leader and that cannon on a TIE/D would have both been ridiculous.

I don't agree at all. PRS on Omega Leader is only a problem if it comes down to a 1v1 endgame, and given that Omega almost certainly wins that anyway, what difference does it really make? At that point, the best thing to do in most cases is to disengage and run out the clock, since most of the time Omega's opponent will be worth considerably more points, forcing him to be the one who has to work for the win, and self-ionising makes that a **** sight harder. I still don't think it would be worth taking on him, despite any of that.

As for the Trash Caster, a TIE/D Defender is about the only place it could have seen serious use since it makes for a powerful Range 1 combo, but renders the title worthless at any other range, so it's self limiting. But no, far better to just prevent Imperials having it at all rather than risk the card being worth the cardstock it's printed on. As it stands there is no place for the thing where any other cannon isn't a better choice, and the lack of control over the self-damage (your opponent controls where their ships are, not you) makes it a **** liability. 'Oh, but if you'll damage yourself then just don't fire it' - if you're going to avoid firing it on the handful of occasions you'll actually be able to, why the bloody hell did you equip it.

3 hours ago, Polda said:

I'm sorry but I have to ask - what is wrong with the TIE Phantom?

Nobody even pretends the low PS pilots arnt trash.

12 hours ago, benskywalker said:

Maybe I'm just too picky, but even if unguided rockets combined with LWF make the Punisher a "good" ship; I'd still personally want an option that makes the Punisher a strong ordnance carrier. It's role is supposed to be a heavy weapons platform it would be nice if it could do that without being just a more expensive bomber, a title (or couple of titles) seems like a good option to make that happen regardless of what wave XI may bring.

It makes the low ps generics efficient jousters (and probably makes Bombers better than Punnishers) but that's about it. It does very little for the named pilots because Deathrain wants his actions to drop bombs and Redline wants to use TL ordnance.

3 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

Nobody even pretends the low PS pilots arnt trash.

Because it's a ship that lives and dies by defensive gimmick that requires it shooting before it gets shot.

IMO there was no point in printing the generics other than all the previous packs included some generics.

Just now, Polda said:

Because it's a ship that lives and dies by defensive gimmick that requires it shooting before it gets shot.

IMO there was no point in printing the generics other than all the previous packs included some generics.

The Bwing was in the same position before Rebel Aces, with the aces being useless while the generics were competitive. So they printed Keyan Farlander.

1 hour ago, Rakaydos said:

The Bwing was in the same position before Rebel Aces, with the aces being useless while the generics were competitive. So they printed Keyan Farlander.

Yes, and now they printed Pure Sabacc to fill in the role of a fragile 4 die missile.

10 hours ago, Polda said:

I'm sorry but I have to ask - what is wrong with the TIE Phantom?

Nothing in particular, other than just general lack of pilots. 2 named and 2 generics is a bit lacking.

And while generics as a whole are pretty bad in this game, the Phantom's are particularly bad. The Phantom basically requires the Advanced Cloaking Device to remain alive, but it needs high PS to be effective so you can shoot first and recloak before you get shot.

A title for a general fix would be nice. And maybe 2 more named pilots.

Don't get me wrong, Echo and Whisper are very good. I'd just like maybe another couple choices. And some more synergistic upgrades for it.

So my dream Phantom+Punisher aces box would be,

First Order Refit: TIE Phantom Title: 2 points. Your upgrade bar gains 1 Tech upgrade. When defending, if you have a Cloak token you may change 1 blank to an Evade result.

Targeting Scrambler: Tech Upgrade: 1 point. While you have a cloak token, enemy ships may not acquire or spend target locks on your ship. You may only equip this upgrade if you have the Cloak action on your action bar.

35 points "Named Phantom Pilot 1": PS8 with an EPT slot: Pilot Ability: When defending, you may choose to discard a cloak token to immediately Decloak. If a cloak token is spent, cancel all dice results then receive a stress token.

32 points "Named Phantom Pilot 2": PS5 with an EPT slot: Pilot Ability: You may perform attacks even while you have a cloak token.

TIE Punisher Mk2: TIE Punisher Title: 0 points. Reduce the cost of equipped Torpedo and Missile upgrades by 2 points each, to a minimum of 0. You may not equip Bomb upgrade cards.

Rapid Munitions Launcher: System Upgrade: 2 points. When you perform an Attack[Target Lock] with a secondary weapon, after the attack is resolved you may immediately acquire another target lock and perform another Attack with the [Target Lock] header.

Expanded Munitions Bay: Bomb slot: 0 points: TIE Punisher Only: When an upgrade card instructs you to discard it, you may discard this card instead.

30 points Tomax Bren: same pilot ability he has in the bomber. Has an EPT slot.

28 points: "Whiplash" Punisher Pilot : PS5: Pilot Ability: When dropping a bomb, you may use the Bank 2(left or right) templates instead of the straight 1 template. After dropping a bomb, you may perform a free Boost action.

t.

Title: weapon energy reroute.

Every time you make an attack with a secondary weapon or drop a bomb, recover 1 shield.

Fixed? Op? Up?

1 hour ago, MaxPower said:

Title: weapon energy reroute.

Every time you make an attack with a secondary weapon or drop a bomb, recover 1 shield.

Fixed? Op? Up?

Unguided rockets and bomblet generator.

13 hours ago, Jehan Menasis said:

Please, Omega Leader is just another TIE. As soon he receives fire from more than one ship it melts like.... any other TIE. More so, being predictable and having to move 1 straight, without recovering stress.

Actually, having an option to do a 1 forward on demand would be pretty **** nice with OL. Just last night I was dogfighting OL 1v1 against a T-70 and the lack of 1 banks and 1 forward does rear its ugly head on occasion.

6 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

32 points "Named Phantom Pilot 2": PS5 with an EPT slot: Pilot Ability: You may perform attacks even while you have a cloak token.

Feel like this still needs a drawback.

Something along the lines of "If you do, your attack dice cannot be modified". But perhaps this seems a little much.

Perhaps, "If you do, your attack dice cannot be re-rolled". Which makes Expertise attractive, but with the appropriate escalation of cost (and the opportunity cost of a PS increase). Or something along the lines of the restriction on Unguided Rockets. Both of which encourage a different build since they make FCS redundant.

(personally, I'd prefer to see the ability toned down and drop a point or two, than simply having a great ability at a high cost)

13 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

Nothing in particular, other than just general lack of pilots. 2 named and 2 generics is a bit lacking.

And while generics as a whole are pretty bad in this game, the Phantom's are particularly bad. The Phantom basically requires the Advanced Cloaking Device to remain alive, but it needs high PS to be effective so you can shoot first and recloak before you get shot.

A title for a general fix would be nice. And maybe 2 more named pilots.

Don't get me wrong, Echo and Whisper are very good. I'd just like maybe another couple choices. And some more synergistic upgrades for it.

So my dream Phantom+Punisher aces box would be,

First Order Refit: TIE Phantom Title: 2 points. Your upgrade bar gains 1 Tech upgrade. When defending, if you have a Cloak token you may change 1 blank to an Evade result.

Targeting Scrambler: Tech Upgrade: 1 point. While you have a cloak token, enemy ships may not acquire or spend target locks on your ship. You may only equip this upgrade if you have the Cloak action on your action bar.

35 points "Named Phantom Pilot 1": PS8 with an EPT slot: Pilot Ability: When defending, you may choose to discard a cloak token to immediately Decloak. If a cloak token is spent, cancel all dice results then receive a stress token.

32 points "Named Phantom Pilot 2": PS5 with an EPT slot: Pilot Ability: You may perform attacks even while you have a cloak token.

TIE Punisher Mk2: TIE Punisher Title: 0 points. Reduce the cost of equipped Torpedo and Missile upgrades by 2 points each, to a minimum of 0. You may not equip Bomb upgrade cards.

Rapid Munitions Launcher: System Upgrade: 2 points. When you perform an Attack[Target Lock] with a secondary weapon, after the attack is resolved you may immediately acquire another target lock and perform another Attack with the [Target Lock] header.

Expanded Munitions Bay: Bomb slot: 0 points: TIE Punisher Only: When an upgrade card instructs you to discard it, you may discard this card instead.

30 points Tomax Bren: same pilot ability he has in the bomber. Has an EPT slot.

28 points: "Whiplash" Punisher Pilot : PS5: Pilot Ability: When dropping a bomb, you may use the Bank 2(left or right) templates instead of the straight 1 template. After dropping a bomb, you may perform a free Boost action.

t.

The Phantoms. Oh boy, everything in the Phantom section is a terrible idea and I think would bring an awful, awful meta and here is why I think that:

First Order Refit - This is Autothrusters with no arc or range limit, on a ship that can roll 4-5 dice depending on range or obstruction and after the first shot (to trigger FCS) also has an Attack of 4-5 which is very precise if you focus on one target.

Problem here is - Phantoms are very slippery. They can get to other peoples side and reward skilled play where you dodge arcs, pick your shots and do hit and runs with their large gun.

If they get caught up in an arc, they shoot at PS9, cloak, giving them 2 extra agility.
With your upgrade a Whisper flown by a skilled player would be near unkillable*.

Targeting Scrambler: now if your opponent flies in a way that he gives you a shot at his Phantom, you cannot get a good shot in because you cannot target lock him making the phantom even more defensive. This shuts down everything, not just munitions.

On their own, with the current pilots these two upgrades are way too powerful for their cost. These are beyond under-costed . Combined with your two new pilots they are broken.

"Named Phantom Pilot 1": so you could Decloak and move to dodge some ships, then you shoot at PS10, because why would you not fly VI on this guy, cloak and become more slippery and if you roll bad, where even your endless autothrusters can't help you - you can Decloak to cancel the attack against you AND roll speed 2, to where the rest of the enemy list probably cannot shoot you?

If you kept him at PS8 and someone PS8+ shoots you, you cancel the attack and do your decloak in the combat phase, shoot and ACD to cloak back.

I honestly cannot tell which of these two situations is worse.

"Named Phantom Pilot 2": Stat line of 4 4 2 2, with endless autothrusters and you cannot be target-locked. This should not exist ever. Since you would not need ACD you could give him Push, TIE mk2 and Focus, Evade all the time. FCS gives you target locks but hell, why not go Advanced Sensors so that you can bank and clear the stress immediately.

*Unkillable - let's get back to this. How would you kill a PS10 Phantom with ACD and Autothrusters that always work?

1. PS kill it before it shoots - this would require PS10 with a large bid or PS11. We're back to the PS race except with the Targetting Scrambler, the PS11 guy could not even get a lot of dice mods cause while you are cloaked some turns before they catch you, they cannot TL you for that one round where they have TL+Focus so those two greens should still hold up pretty well.

2. Bombs, because what every list needs is a dedicated bomber to deal with a phantom.

3. Stress

The entire meta would either become all Phantoms or counter-Phantom lists either racing to out PS each other. All bombs or all stress mechanics. And stress doesn't just hurt the Phantom but every other ship. Ships need actions.

I am sorry to say but your dream box would be a nightmare for everyone else and is a stupid, stupid idea. It would create the worst meta we have experienced so far.

Worse than Fat Han v Deci Whisper, worse than triple deadeye scouts, worse than pre-nerf phantoms.

The game would bleed players.

I think what the low PS Phantoms need is an inverted version of ACD.

So they can start the combat phase cloaked, decloak when they activate during combat, then shoot.

I'd allow it to take Stygium as well, otherwise it would just be rolling naked greens the whole time, and even with 4 that never goes well.

Would also bring a whole new dynamic to flying. High PS opponents will want to go head to head with you, knowing that you're not going to be there to return fire.
Low PS opponents will have to look to set traps, having to predict not only your manoeuvre, but also where you'll decloak to after, to get a shot on a 2 agility ship.
And you'll have to plan at least a turn ahead, as you'll be wanting to move based on where you want to decloak to, without the ability to decloak your way away from obstacles/bombs etc at the start of activation.

There should never be a ship, TIE Phantom or other that can do a 2 barrel roll in combat phase with perfect knowledge where everyone else is after their activation and any in combat action triggers like Ahsoka, Squad Leader, Airen Cracken etc.

The tie punisher just has to go away.. no fix, let it die. I just hate the ship.