12 hours ago, ABXY said:

Feel like this still needs a drawback.

Something along the lines of "If you do, your attack dice cannot be modified". But perhaps this seems a little much.

Perhaps, "If you do, your attack dice cannot be re-rolled". Which makes Expertise attractive, but with the appropriate escalation of cost (and the opportunity cost of a PS increase). Or something along the lines of the restriction on Unguided Rockets. Both of which encourage a different build since they make FCS redundant.

(personally, I'd prefer to see the ability toned down and drop a point or two, than simply having a great ability at a high cost)

I actually came up with a custom pilot that can shoot while cloaked, but if he does, he must decloak or discard his cloak token, and cannot regain a cloak token that turn

drawback and no synergy there with ACD

If you want to buff the TIE Phantom:

Title: 2 points
Phantom V38
You may decloak at the start of your ship's activation instead of at the beginning of the combat phase.
Whilst you have a cloak token assigned to your ship, all damage assigned to you are dealt directly to shields.

There, you have your old phantom back with enough of a caveat that other people won't complain about it. Plus if the Romulans and Klingons can't cloak with shields, then the blasted empire shouldn't be able to either.

7 hours ago, Polda said:

The Phantoms. Oh boy, everything in the Phantom section is a terrible idea and I think would bring an awful, awful meta and here is why I think that:

First Order Refit - This is Autothrusters with no arc or range limit, on a ship that can roll 4-5 dice depending on range or obstruction and after the first shot (to trigger FCS) also has an Attack of 4-5 which is very precise if you focus on one target.

Problem here is - Phantoms are very slippery. They can get to other peoples side and reward skilled play where you dodge arcs, pick your shots and do hit and runs with their large gun.

If they get caught up in an arc, they shoot at PS9, cloak, giving them 2 extra agility.
With your upgrade a Whisper flown by a skilled player would be near unkillable*.

Targeting Scrambler: now if your opponent flies in a way that he gives you a shot at his Phantom, you cannot get a good shot in because you cannot target lock him making the phantom even more defensive. This shuts down everything, not just munitions.

On their own, with the current pilots these two upgrades are way too powerful for their cost. These are beyond under-costed . Combined with your two new pilots they are broken.

"Named Phantom Pilot 1": so you could Decloak and move to dodge some ships, then you shoot at PS10, because why would you not fly VI on this guy, cloak and become more slippery and if you roll bad, where even your endless autothrusters can't help you - you can Decloak to cancel the attack against you AND roll speed 2, to where the rest of the enemy list probably cannot shoot you?

If you kept him at PS8 and someone PS8+ shoots you, you cancel the attack and do your decloak in the combat phase, shoot and ACD to cloak back.

I honestly cannot tell which of these two situations is worse.

"Named Phantom Pilot 2": Stat line of 4 4 2 2, with endless autothrusters and you cannot be target-locked. This should not exist ever. Since you would not need ACD you could give him Push, TIE mk2 and Focus, Evade all the time. FCS gives you target locks but hell, why not go Advanced Sensors so that you can bank and clear the stress immediately.

*Unkillable - let's get back to this. How would you kill a PS10 Phantom with ACD and Autothrusters that always work?

1. PS kill it before it shoots - this would require PS10 with a large bid or PS11. We're back to the PS race except with the Targetting Scrambler, the PS11 guy could not even get a lot of dice mods cause while you are cloaked some turns before they catch you, they cannot TL you for that one round where they have TL+Focus so those two greens should still hold up pretty well.

2. Bombs, because what every list needs is a dedicated bomber to deal with a phantom.

3. Stress

The entire meta would either become all Phantoms or counter-Phantom lists either racing to out PS each other. All bombs or all stress mechanics. And stress doesn't just hurt the Phantom but every other ship. Ships need actions.

I am sorry to say but your dream box would be a nightmare for everyone else and is a stupid, stupid idea. It would create the worst meta we have experienced so far.

Worse than Fat Han v Deci Whisper, worse than triple deadeye scouts, worse than pre-nerf phantoms.

The game would bleed players.

Yeah, but unlike all those other things this would actually take skill to fly. So by default it would be better than what we have now, which is just mindless Mindlink and JM5K spam. Skill should always trump dumb luck if you can help it.

Targeting scrambler could be limited if we wanted to prevent it from being on more than 1 Phantom for balance. Points would probably need adjusting, testing would be needed of course.

And given how much red dice creep there is in the game right now, it's about time that there was some green dice creep.

The only effective playstyle with the phantom right now is "I'm 4/4 if I have a higher PS than you."

The other playstyle, with SPA, was supposed to be "go dark, be unhurtable, then pop out and give a powerful hit." But a single evade token wasnt enough to make that a viable tactic.

What if Stygium Particle Accelerator gave a reinforce token? and not an action, either- decloaking and recloaking gives 2 tokens, one for each direction, at the cost of all combat ability.

That gives the phantom a powerful reason to blink in and out, but keeps the painful drawback of not being able to shoot, that ACD bypasses.

I've actually been tempted to test out running a PS3 with lightweight frame. Gives it the same basic stats as Pure Sabacc, at a lower PS but doesn't lose the extra attack die when it takes damage. And it has 2 shields instead of 2 hull.

Yea phantoms don't need much help. Especially whisper and echo.

Lower ps ones are weaker but I think buffing then could easily go too far by accident like with x7.

Adding new pilots is certainly fun and fine. Maybe a ps 8 or 9 one that has no EPT to take VI with.

Also any imp vets/aces/etc that doesn't have the firespray is a big mistake.

23 minutes ago, markcsoul said:

Yea phantoms don't need much help. Especially whisper and echo.

Lower ps ones are weaker but I think buffing then could easily go too far by accident like with x7.

Adding new pilots is certainly fun and fine. Maybe a ps 8 or 9 one that has no EPT to take VI with.

Also any imp vets/aces/etc that doesn't have the firespray is a big mistake.

I think, for the purposes of an imperial firespray fix, we can call the Archangel from the Darth Vader comic a Firespray. It could easilly be made a different ship, but it's close enough to hang some cards on.

2 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

Yeah, but unlike all those other things this would actually take skill to fly. So by default it would be better than what we have now, which is just mindless Mindlink and JM5K spam. Skill should always trump dumb luck if you can help it.

Targeting scrambler could be limited if we wanted to prevent it from being on more than 1 Phantom for balance. Points would probably need adjusting, testing would be needed of course.

And given how much red dice creep there is in the game right now, it's about time that there was some green dice creep.

Yeah people like to throw around that stuff about Mindlink and JM5K being mindless but it is bull. Mindlink squads and JMs do take skill to fly. What they have is a low skill floor. They are easier to pickup and they are consistent however they will fail you if you make bad decisions.

There is also that argument that they are not fun to fly which is absurd - you roll around, spinning around (I hear it's a good trick.) blasting fools with torpedoes.

And man, come on... green dice power creep is how we got Triple Deadeye Scouts in the first place.

Hey maybe if I throw three four dice attacks that negate range bonuses I can hit Palp aces! Oh wait as an unintended consequence, it wrecks all the other ships? Cool!
And how did that work out for everyone?

Answering red dice power creep with green dice power creep is not the way to go. It will hurt a lot of ships that already have trouble keeping up i. e. every two die primary ship because now there is even more stuff they cannot hope to hit.

Want Phantoms back in the game? Rein in double stress mechanics and bombs and you should be fine. Well, mainly Advanced SLAM.
Whisper and Echo are pretty good, until someone rolls up and slaps a Cluster Mine under the phantom.
Stresshog you can kind of play around. Braylen I admit annoys my Whisper more as you need to keep to his sides, getting behind him is no use.


Edit: also maybe stop releasing PS9s for a while

9 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

I think, for the purposes of an imperial firespray fix, we can call the Archangel from the Darth Vader comic a Firespray. It could easilly be made a different ship, but it's close enough to hang some cards on.

See now this is what we should be looking into. How about a Punisher and Firespray? Give that pack an Imperial Heavy Weapons theme with some cannons, good rockets etc.?

15 minutes ago, Polda said:

See now this is what we should be looking into. How about a Punisher and Firespray? Give that pack an Imperial Heavy Weapons theme with some cannons, good rockets etc.?

I'd almost prefer another Tie Advance fix instead of the punisher. When was the last time you saw a "Bright" that wasnt Vader?

Just now, Rakaydos said:

I'd almost prefer another Tie Advance fix instead of the punisher. When was the last time you saw a "Bright" that wasnt Vader?

Thought about the same thing but I kinda like the "needs more ordnance tubes" silliness and the Firespray is just a beauty. Hey maybe we could get Lambdas that are not just crew carriers.

The targeting computer was cute but Vader is the only one who can use it reliably because he can get his two actions and fit in an EPT for rerolls.

Overcosted by about 5 pts and Boost is a waste of an upgrade slot.
If it had gotten SLAM instead it would have made some sense playwise.

3 minutes ago, Holmelund said:

Overcosted by about 5 pts and Boost is a waste of an upgrade slot.
If it had gotten SLAM instead it would have made some sense playwise.

Lets be fair... if it got advance slam for Boost, it shouldn't be so bad.

Echoing what others are saying. Phantoms do not need any help.
The generics can use Lightweight Frame. Echo and Whisper are still very competitive (especially with Kylo Crew and a Chiraneu).

Interceptors are what really needs the help. Intensity will give them more options, but they still need some sort of buff. Something to help out all the EPT less pilots.

1 minute ago, AngryAlbatross said:

Echoing what others are saying. Phantoms do not need any help.
The generics can use Lightweight Frame. Echo and Whisper are still very competitive (especially with Kylo Crew and a Chiraneu).

Interceptors are what really needs the help. Intensity will give them more options, but they still need some sort of buff. Something to help out all the EPT less pilots.

Point for point, the Intercepter has the same reds as a tie fighter, but only 2/3 the survivability.

A single, no questions asked Focus token per turn is my solution. They can boost or barrel roll and survive 1 good shot, or evade and tank up.

On 6/13/2017 at 1:18 AM, SEApocalypse said:

TIE Bombers want to have a word with you.

Tell them I'll get back to them later.

4 minutes ago, Kingsguard said:

Tell them I'll get back to them later.

Except for Deathfire. I like Deathfire. Call Deathfire now, ask him to do a barrel roll!

14 minutes ago, Polda said:

Except for Deathfire. I like Deathfire. Call Deathfire now, ask him to do a barrel roll!

No love for my Tomax? Definitely my favourite bomber pilot and comes in a white K-Turn and Crackshot variety

On 2017-06-13 at 3:44 AM, Shadow345 said:

TIE Punisher?

It seems to be missing a lot.

At least a pilot with an EPT slot and maybe a generic with an EPT slot as well.

The obligatory points reduction upgrade goes without saying.

Maybe an ordnance and/or bomb upgrade that is tailored to work best on the Punisher.

TIE Phantom could do with some new pilots as the second ship in the pack.

Tie Punisher for sure. No matter what they decide to do it needs to adress 2 things: lack of a porper dial and like you said no EPT slot. My ideal fix would be a Title card (0 pts cost):

"When you reveal your dial you can instead perform a 0 speed move of the same color as the chose maneuver. If your PS is 4 or higher your action bar gain an EPT slot."

Problem solved without being overpowered or reducing the ship cost.

Tie phantom: very simple fix, make advanced cloaking device a title so the ship can chose another mod.

I think the most needed fix for many Tie ships is a way to defend against dmg that would normally be automatic (Bombs, slicer tool, feedback array, etc). IMO it would be a title that allows to equip a 2nd title. Something like:

"When an attack or ability would cause you dmg without allowing the roll of your defense dices, you can use a focus or an evade to roll a number of dice equal to the maximum amount of dmg you could receive minus 1 (minimum 1 dice). You can equip a second title."

So for example if a bomb + Sabine could do 3 dmg to your ship, your are allowed to use a focus/evade to roll 2 defense dices. If someone use Slicer tool on you, you can roll 1 dice. Since green dices are statistically inferior to red ones, the odds would still be in favor of the attacker.

For 28 points this may not be horrible:

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (21)
Collision Detector (0)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Bomblet Generator (3)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Essentially you have a 2.5/2/6/3 statline. Pooping out bombs at PS 2 is less than ideal, but you can do it essentially every turn. That's give your rear a no-go zone. You can also run Electronic baffle to get that focus token when you K-turn.

4 hours ago, Jo Jo said:

For 28 points this may not be horrible:

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (21)
Collision Detector (0)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Bomblet Generator (3)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Essentially you have a 2.5/2/6/3 statline. Pooping out bombs at PS 2 is less than ideal, but you can do it essentially every turn. That's give your rear a no-go zone. You can also run Electronic baffle to get that focus token when you K-turn.

It seems solid, I could see someone chucking a slightly more specialised version in a list or just using it for Minefield mapper and then having a decent stat-line (still slightly overcosted I believe)

Probably worth the 3 points to make it Advanced Sensors to make sure you have that focus no matter what. It seems okay for 31 points, but not amazing. Kind of similar to an Arc? But LWF is nice.

i love how people always have the opinion that only bad players hit a bomb dropped before you move.

There are other ships and rocks on the board that prevent you from getting away from a bomb. Use them, i land bombs all the bloody time and when i dont i still gained more than i lost in positioning or mindgaming. And 90% of the time when i use a bomb, its a PS5 bomber, not a PS8 kwing.

Especially if you are laying a bomb every single round eventually someone slips up and gets tagged, no matter how skilled they fly. Even top players tag a rock now and then.

Quit assuming things that can be categorized as a "skill shot" never work. They do work, they just require some actual forethought to function.

1 hour ago, Vineheart01 said:

i love how people always have the opinion that only bad players hit a bomb dropped before you move.

There are other ships and rocks on the board that prevent you from getting away from a bomb. Use them, i land bombs all the bloody time and when i dont i still gained more than i lost in positioning or mindgaming. And 90% of the time when i use a bomb, its a PS5 bomber, not a PS8 kwing.

Especially if you are laying a bomb every single round eventually someone slips up and gets tagged, no matter how skilled they fly. Even top players tag a rock now and then.

Quit assuming things that can be categorized as a "skill shot" never work. They do work, they just require some actual forethought to function.

They don't NEVER work.

But assuming they do, is probably asking to fail unless you're, like, a system open finalist, or whatever. If I were running bombs at a big tournament at the moment, I'd be assuming I wouldn't hit with any (action) bomb that didn't either hit my opponent directly or land close enough to his front that it was literally impossible for it to miss on his next move (and even then, coordinate and spacetug exist, and the inverse assumption for dial bombs of course). Because assuming anything else is probably going to lead to losing.

If it requires your opponent to make a mistake, to work, assume they won't make the mistake, and you'll never be disappointed when they don't.