28 minutes ago, TheHumanHydra said:

I appreciate the responses, folks. I guess I had misunderstand what I had read about Epic balance. My friend asked for the thread address, so he will be able to see your comments and recommendations too.

@Reiver , I'm curious about those balance-patch modifications you mention. I haven't heard of them before, but I haven't read much about Epic.

@Marinealver , I'm curious as to your classification of gunships. What would your definition be, and what is their role in Epic? My wild guess is that they're ships that can carry crew, but I'm not sure. Btw, four IGs sounds awesome. I would fly that if I could. That or an obscene number of StarVipers.

Gunships is what I call corvettes sometimes. They are the two section huge ships and you fill all the hardpoints so you can get multiple attacks from that ship.

As far as formations those are simply a set of ships that behave differently in Epic than they do in standard. So far the only ship to do that is the (scum) Aggressor with the IG-2000 title. Brobots doesn't work the same as a ship with all 4 pilot abilities. So in order for there to be a "Formation" there has to be some level of synergy that you can't mimic in Standard or even Escalation.

An entire thread about epic and with good advise and multiple replies, enough to bring a tear to my eye it's so beautiful.

How effective is a double huge list? I saw Allwings say a double raider list but is it only the big dogs that are good in pairs or can you rock the medium fries with the large drink? I love my raider but finances are not going to permit a second, I do have the gonzanti though.

Seriously, whoever brings a list of 12 TLT to the table should get smacked over the head.

4 hours ago, TheHumanHydra said:

I appreciate the responses, folks. I guess I had misunderstand what I had read about Epic balance. My friend asked for the thread address, so he will be able to see your comments and recommendations too.

@Reiver , I'm curious about those balance-patch modifications you mention. I haven't heard of them before, but I haven't read much about Epic.

@Marinealver , I'm curious as to your classification of gunships. What would your definition be, and what is their role in Epic? My wild guess is that they're ships that can carry crew, but I'm not sure. Btw, four IGs sounds awesome. I would fly that if I could. That or an obscene number of StarVipers.

The modifications are Optimised Generators and Automated Protocols: 5pts each, but they're absolutely and totally worthwhile. Ordnance Tubes counts too, but you need a big ship loaded with guns to make that one worthwhile.

I highly, highly recommend flying Quadruple Brobots if you can! All power aside (and they're pretty good on that front, make no mistake), they're just hilarious, and epic is the only place you'll ever get the chance. ?

3 hours ago, LordFajubi said:

An entire thread about epic and with good advise and multiple replies, enough to bring a tear to my eye it's so beautiful.

How effective is a double huge list? I saw Allwings say a double raider list but is it only the big dogs that are good in pairs or can you rock the medium fries with the large drink? I love my raider but finances are not going to permit a second, I do have the gonzanti though.

Did FFG scrap Epic points, or are we playing a different format? IIRC correctly players are limited to 5 Epic points per side, the Raider/CR-90 costs 3 and the Gozanti/GR-75 costs 2. So you can have one of each, or double transports, but not double corvettes.

Unless of course you're playing anything goes.

In my experience, the Corvettes struggle to be effective as they're such a large points sink. Double transports are definitely viable, however, mainly beause they're cheap, tough and can cause big problems with the Jam action, Slicer Tools etc.

45 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Did FFG scrap Epic points, or are we playing a different format? IIRC correctly players are limited to 5 Epic points per side, the Raider/CR-90 costs 3 and the Gozanti/GR-75 costs 2. So you can have one of each, or double transports, but not double corvettes.

Unless of course you're playing anything goes.

In my experience, the Corvettes struggle to be effective as they're such a large points sink. Double transports are definitely viable, however, mainly beause they're cheap, tough and can cause big problems with the Jam action, Slicer Tools etc.

Transports, as epic ships, qualify as Huge.

You can, iirc, fly twin Raiders in team epic, too, but I haven't checked recently to be sure.

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/x-wing/support/X-Wing-Epic-Tournament-Rules.pdf

OK, so yeah, Team Epic you're allowed 3 Epic points per player, so double raider or double CR-90 is doable in that format. Whether it's a good idea or not is a different matter.

Also worthy of note are the deployment rules - you deploy at range 1-2 of your board edge. First turn alpha strikes are indeed a thing in Epic.

3 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/x-wing/support/X-Wing-Epic-Tournament-Rules.pdf

OK, so yeah, Team Epic you're allowed 3 Epic points per player, so double raider or double CR-90 is doable in that format. Whether it's a good idea or not is a different matter.

Also worthy of note are the deployment rules - you deploy at range 1-2 of your board edge. First turn alpha strikes are indeed a thing in Epic.

Twin Raiders with a wall of ablative ties would certainly leave no bit of board safe... Especially if they were designed to complement each other. Muahahaha.

The reinforce token should cancel one damage during the deal damage step instead of adding a result. Would make the Huge ships immune to TLT. Unfortunately the Wookiee Winnebago makes this rule change unlikely.

Hello,

I think the Ghost vs. Gozanti would be a good fight. In fact, you could also do the campaign that comes with the Gozanti vs. the Ghost. It's an excellent little campaign where you fight against one Rebel, large based ship through several missions. It should be fun. It's also a good way to learn Epic and to learn the abilities of the Gozanti. I might recommend trying that before a big game, but I know people often like to jump all in. It's OK if you start that way, too.

8 hours ago, TheHumanHydra said:

@Reiver , I'm curious about those balance-patch modifications you mention. I haven't heard of them before, but I haven't read much about Epic.

You are in luck, as the balancing modifications actually come in the Gozanti! So, you have the various modifications already. Just make sure to use one of them on the epic ship.

Personally, I would look towards getting enough ships to play Heroes of the Aturi Cluster and that's a good guide to playing Epic games, too. I tend to like numerous of the same ships, like Tie Fighters and X-wings, in Epic. HotAC requires a bit of the same and I like to think the two go hand in hand.

19 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Hello,

I think the Ghost vs. Gozanti would be a good fight. In fact, you could also do the campaign that comes with the Gozanti vs. the Ghost. It's an excellent little campaign where you fight against one Rebel, large based ship through several missions. It should be fun. It's also a good way to learn Epic and to learn the abilities of the Gozanti. I might recommend trying that before a big game, but I know people often like to jump all in. It's OK if you start that way, too.

Do note that you should absolutely not load up the Gonzanti with Homing Missiles/Plasma Torp TIE Bombers for those missions, they remove the Ghost in about 2 turns. Which makes the campaign suitable for lunchbreak, but not enjoyable

11 hours ago, LordFajubi said:

An entire thread about epic and with good advise and multiple replies, enough to bring a tear to my eye it's so beautiful.

How effective is a double huge list? I saw Allwings say a double raider list but is it only the big dogs that are good in pairs or can you rock the medium fries with the large drink? I love my raider but finances are not going to permit a second, I do have the gonzanti though.

I've done it an had a blast, but we where playing at 600 points.

7 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Did FFG scrap Epic points, or are we playing a different format? IIRC correctly players are limited to 5 Epic points per side, the Raider/CR-90 costs 3 and the Gozanti/GR-75 costs 2. So you can have one of each, or double transports, but not double corvettes.

Unless of course you're playing anything goes.

In my experience, the Corvettes struggle to be effective as they're such a large points sink. Double transports are definitely viable, however, mainly beause they're cheap, tough and can cause big problems with the Jam action, Slicer Tools etc.

Correct. Although, as has been pointed out elsewhere, the Gozanti and C-ROC are not officially given their epic point levels.

6 hours ago, Reiver said:

Transports, as epic ships, qualify as Huge.

You can, iirc, fly twin Raiders in team epic, too , but I haven't checked recently to be sure.

I'm pretty sure you're right. OTOH, c. 130 points for a decent Raider leaves precious few points for a fighter screen.

9 hours ago, Stefan said:

Seriously, whoever brings a list of 12 TLT to the table should get smacked over the head.

You can actually fit 13 if you go with HWKs.

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v4!e!127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;123:135,-1,-1,-1:-1:-1:;248::50:-1:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

8 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Also worthy of note are the deployment rules - you deploy at range 1-2 of your board edge. First turn alpha strikes are indeed a thing in Epic.

Now throw in Dormitz + Hyperwave on every ship. It's borderline broken.

4 minutes ago, defkhan1 said:

Now throw in Dormitz + Hyperwave on every ship. It's borderline broken.

As seen here . It's scary.

14 hours ago, LordFajubi said:

An entire thread about epic and with good advise and multiple replies, enough to bring a tear to my eye it's so beautiful.

How effective is a double huge list? I saw Allwings say a double raider list but is it only the big dogs that are good in pairs or can you rock the medium fries with the large drink? I love my raider but finances are not going to permit a second, I do have the gonzanti though.

We played a 600/side epic last year. My opponent used my Raider and I used his Tantive. Nobody had two of the same epic ships. It was a long but glorious fight! We didn't consider how long it takes to move 400 pts of small based ships when we started the game!

We haven't tried a Raider/Gozanti vs Tantive/GR-75 but that seems like a fun matchup.

15 hours ago, heychadwick said:

I think the Ghost vs. Gozanti would be a good fight

That 0 agility really hurts - 4 docked TIE Advanced, Cluster Missiles, Accuracy Corrector, Guidance Chips = minimum 16 damage on the Ghost or you can take Prockets which are a bit more rounded to getting through agility on other targets. I did this once in the Gozanti missions. Messy.

14 hours ago, defkhan1 said:

You can actually fit 13 if you go with HWKs.

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v4!e!127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;127:135,-1,-1:-1:-1:;123:135,-1,-1,-1:-1:-1:;248::50:-1:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Now throw in Dormitz + Hyperwave on every ship. It's borderline broken.

You'd need to buy 13 HWK for this, and be the biggest ******* around. You do this once. Why would I ever sit down with you to play Epic again?

22 hours ago, defkhan1 said:

You can actually fit 13 if you go with HWKs.

8 hours ago, Stefan said:

You'd need to buy 13 HWK for this, and be the biggest ******* around. You do this once. Why would I ever sit down with you to play Epic again?

Also, a tiny caveat : The Epic Format rules cap the number of each ship-type you can have... so you can't (officially) have 13 HWKs.

Yeah thats why I have 12 HWKs and 1 Ywing if you look at the list. Also, Id never fly such a list, just noting that its possible.

Yeah. But this seems like the ramming list in Armada. Technically possible, but no fun for anyone.