15 hours ago, Devin-the-Poet said:

Am I the only person who is disappointed that the Scorpion and Spider were the only one with ninjas?

Actually, they aren't the only one.

Crab had the Hiruma Stalkers.

Crane the Daidoji Spymaster/Harriers

Lion had the Ikoma Lion's Shadow

Phoenix had the Sesai Ninja

Sure, they are deep and very limited, but they have to be in order to not compromise the family. However, I have a feeling that people are seeing ninjas as people being overpower like in Ninja Gaiden...

1 hour ago, Crawd said:

Actually, they aren't the only one.

Crab had the Hiruma Stalkers.

Crane the Daidoji Spymaster/Harriers

Lion had the Ikoma Lion's Shadow

Phoenix had the Sesai Ninja

Sure, they are deep and very limited, but they have to be in order to not compromise the family. However, I have a feeling that people are seeing ninjas as people being overpower like in Ninja Gaiden...

I think the complaint was less RPG option than CCG trait. Scorpion and Spider had ninja, and there were unaligned ninja, and that was about it.

2 hours ago, Crawd said:

Actually, they aren't the only one.

Crab had the Hiruma Stalkers.

Crane the Daidoji Spymaster/Harriers

Lion had the Ikoma Lion's Shadow

Phoenix had the Sesai Ninja

Sure, they are deep and very limited, but they have to be in order to not compromise the family. However, I have a feeling that people are seeing ninjas as people being overpower like in Ninja Gaiden...

Maybe... I just see most of the Ninja as a twisted version of the Samurai loyalty. And I would like to get a closer look at each of the clans secret spy side. The Dragon had to have had assassins at some point at least in old5r.

2 minutes ago, Devin-the-Poet said:

Maybe... I just see most of the Ninja as a twisted version of the Samurai loyalty. And I would like to get a closer look at each of the clans secret spy side. The Dragon had to have had assassins at some point at least in old5r.

Well... maybe, we don't know. The Dragon Clan were always very "mysterious" and maybe at some point, they were soo mysterious even toward themselves that they forgot they had some! That or they spent too much thoughts on the idea of having any that they were always interrupted with other stuffs because of Togashi. Haha!

13 minutes ago, Crawd said:

Well... maybe, we don't know. The Dragon Clan were always very "mysterious" and maybe at some point, they were soo mysterious even toward themselves that they forgot they had some! That or they spent too much thoughts on the idea of having any that they were always interrupted with other stuffs because of Togashi. Haha!

Togashi had a future he needed. And at least a couple of times someone was messing with it. Now maybe he sent an army, or a mirumoto duelist, or maybe a tattooed monk in the night.

If Togashi stole bodies, I don't think he'd be against using a Ninja or two.

1 hour ago, SirEuain said:

I think the complaint was less RPG option than CCG trait. Scorpion and Spider had ninja, and there were unaligned ninja, and that was about it.

Well, Toturi's army had Matsu Hiroru.

The more I read this thread the more I think that playable Shadowlands is a terrible idea unless they make it it's own special edition box with it's own rules and gameplay, just to spice things up for the Oni fans in the class.

Now Bloodspeaker Shugenja, corrupted Courtiers, Nothing level Ninja antics, or even(hopefully?) Noble non-humans and yokai kinda stuff... Specific cards or specific cycles for fun and flavour. I can see that fitting in the game for those that want to toy with the powers of corruption. But not an actual "clan". Not this game.

1 hour ago, Devin-the-Poet said:

Togashi had a future he needed. And at least a couple of times someone was messing with it. Now maybe he sent an army, or a mirumoto duelist, or maybe a tattooed monk in the night.

Some of those early tattoos were pretty crazy assassin tools. Also, IIRC by Way Of The Wolf, the most common and effective assassination tool for daimyo was to take a loyal samurai, give them a mission, and then turn them ronin. Either they succeed and commit seppuku, or they fail. (and maybe commit seppuku)

1 hour ago, Daigotsu Steve said:

The more I read this thread the more I think that playable Shadowlands is a terrible idea unless they make it it's own special edition box with it's own rules and gameplay, just to spice things up for the Oni fans in the class.

Now Bloodspeaker Shugenja, corrupted Courtiers, Nothing level Ninja antics, or even(hopefully?) Noble non-humans and yokai kinda stuff... Specific cards or specific cycles for fun and flavour. I can see that fitting in the game for those that want to toy with the powers of corruption. But not an actual "clan". Not this game.

Named Oni should really be on the level of clan champions: high cost, high(er) stats, and bigger effect. I don't think we need tons of them running around either. An Oni no Akuma or whoever. Well, aside from throw away lesser oni.

With that being said, other stuff should fill the ranks. Stuff like the corrupted humans, ogre bushi, and all the other generic stuff. Even potential 'evil' spirits or neutral stuff would help fill out the clans too.

I think the idea of throwing tons of new rules (not counting something flavorful like a keyword along the lines of Pride) wouldn't work either. The best I could find is using all the same rules and simply saying that the honor dial is more of an opposition dial which represents the clans' opposition to you with more honor giving less opposition and lower honor meaning more opposition. That's more of a name change than actually changing it's actual name or in-game meaning.

If they do come out with a shadowlands box, I think having a few Stronghold options would favor them greatly. Each one could represent a different style of Shadowlands too. One could be the big, kaiju Oni or monster theme. Another could be the ongoing corruption inside Rokugan. Maybe the last one is more of a neutral Shadowlands or even some of the good forces (kami and shugenja, various anti-Shadowlands people, or even stuff like the non-evil Ogres).

Assuming that Shadowlands is designed as a splash-faction (as Daigotsu Steve says) rather than a full faction in its own right, I'd like to see as many political Shadowlands cards as military ones.

- A military Oni could be a typical Hida-killing monster.

- A political Oni could be a sinister seducer or shapeshifter.

- A military maho spell could be a something that causes injuries.

- A political maho spell could be something that controls minds.

This would made the Shadowlands what it should be: a temptation. You can get lots of power from it to balance out your clan's weaknesses, at the small cost of your soul. Do Crane or Scorpion want an easy way to kill their enemies? Do Crab or Unicorn want to speak with silvered tongues? The kansen are always happy to help...

6 minutes ago, Kitsu Seinosuke said:

Assuming that Shadowlands is designed as a splash-faction (as Daigotsu Steve says) rather than a full faction in its own right, I'd like to see as many political Shadowlands cards as military ones.

- A military Oni could be a typical Hida-killing monster.

- A political Oni could be a sinister seducer or shapeshifter.

- A military maho spell could be a something that causes injuries.

- A political maho spell could be something that controls minds.

This would made the Shadowlands what it should be: a temptation. You can get lots of power from it to balance out your clan's weaknesses, at the small cost of your soul. Do Crane or Scorpion want an easy way to kill their enemies? Do Crab or Unicorn want to speak with silvered tongues? The kansen are always happy to help...

THIS!!!