An ongoing discussion is happening in our group?

Snapshot:

After an enemy ship executes a maneuver, you may perform this attack against that ship.

ATTACK: Attack 1 ship. You cannot modify your attack dice and cannot attack again this phase.

So this is what happened? T-70 X-wing moved into range two of Major Rhymer Shuttle: His ability reads

When attacking with a secondary weapon, you may increase or decrease the weapon range by 1 to a limit of Range 1-3.

So Rhymer snaps at range 2 with a Tactician. The T-70 has pattern analyzer. When does the Stress get given out?

What is the order?

1) T70 moves, gets snapped and stressed, stopping the t70 action, and thus making pattern analyzer, useless versus it?

2) t70 moves, gets snapped, but because of pattern analyzer, gets it's action then gets stressed?

3) Something else, maybe initiative decides the order?

Thanks,

T-70 moves, gets stressed, loses action, then receives a stress if it did a red move, or removes the stress it received if it did a green move

1 minute ago, DeathstarII said:

T-70 moves, gets stressed, loses action, then receives a stress if it did a red move, or removes the stress it received if it did a green move

Ok. So basically the PA is useless versus snap shot, because your action is lost.

Not entirely, it allows you to get out stress free so you can be given free actions, but you do lose your main action

A maneuver is completed after the check stress step, meaning that a ship with Pattern takes an action before checking for stress.

This mean they are able to take an action, if they did a green clear stress and completes their maneuver. Now snap kicks in and the ship gets stressed.

1 minute ago, Danath said:

A maneuver is completed after the check stress step, meaning that a ship with Pattern takes an action before checking for stress.

This mean they are able to take an action, if they did a green clear stress and completes their maneuver. Now snap kicks in and the ship gets stressed.

Not quite, PA reads "perform the check stress step after the perform action step". This removes it from the 'execute maneuver' tree, thus meaning you won't get an action, but will clear the stress from PA that turn, if you did a green move.

1 minute ago, ThalanirIII said:

Not quite, PA reads "perform the check stress step after the perform action step". This removes it from the 'execute maneuver' tree, thus meaning you won't get an action, but will clear the stress from PA that turn, if you did a green move.

Looks at that... I had it backwards.

Got it. So you would lose your primary action, but if you did a green it would still clear the stress from Tactician. Thus you could still get free actions from an ability or another player.

21 minutes ago, Danath said:

A maneuver is completed after the check stress step, meaning that a ship with Pattern takes an action before checking for stress.

This mean they are able to take an action, if they did a green clear stress and completes their maneuver. Now snap kicks in and the ship gets stressed.

I don't think that that's right. Pattern analyser shifts the perform action step to before check pilot stress. Despite its name, however, the "Check Pilot Stress" step doesn't involve checking to see if you have stress and then deciding whether you can do an action. It's just the step where you assign or remove a stress based on the difficulty (colour) of the manoeuvre you just performed.

The order in this instance would be:

Perform manoeuvre.

Snapshot attack.

Assign Tactician stress.

Perform action (this will fail because you're stressed).

Check Pilot stress (remove or assign a stress token based on your manoeuvre)

A stressed ship can not perform actions unless explicitly permitted to do so (e.g. Primed thrusters, Tycho, etc.). In this instance, Pattern Analyser is basically useless.

[EDIT]Thoroughly Ninja'd.

FWIW, Pattern Analyser shouldn't have any impact on the timing of the removal of stress tokens in this instance. If I fly into Tactician Snapshot range using a green manoeuvre, one stress token is removed at the Check Pilot Stress step. The Tactician stress was assigned between the Move Ship step and the Check Pilot Stress step, so it's removed by the Check Pilot Stress step if you performed a green manoeuvre. The action step comes next (even with Pattern Analyser - it's a "may", not a must).

In short, assuming you perform a green into snap/tac range, you exit with the same amount of stress you came in with, and you get an action that round. If it's white or red, you get one additional stress and miss out on your action. Pattern Analyser makes no difference to this either way.

27 minutes ago, MacchuWA said:

In short, assuming you perform a green into snap/tac range, you exit with the same amount of stress you came in with, and you [DO NOT] get an action that round. If it's white or red, you get one additional stress and miss out on your action.

I believe this is the consensus. No action, but you lose the stress if you did a green. So you could still get coordinated, or use expertise while attacking.

I don't see how Tactician would stop you from taking an action IF you did a green.

Let's assume you start unstressed

Step 1 - Reveal Dial. Okay!

Step 2 - Execute Maneuver. This is done in substeps.

2A. Move ship, ship ends movement R2 of Rhymer w/ Tactician + Snap Shot

2B - Check pilot stress. You have yet to receive the tactician stress at this point, so no stress to remove

2C - Clean up. Yup, got it

2C-INTERRUPT - Snap Shot triggers, Tactician triggers. T-70 receives stress and defends from shot (and all of those steps happen)

3 - Perform Action. You are now stressed due to tactician and cannot perform actions

If you elected to use PA, it would move step 2B after step 3. And you still cannot do an action, but you do end up stress free:

Step 1 - Reveal Dial. Okay!

Step 2 - Execute Maneuver. This is done in substeps.

2A. Move ship, ship ends movement R2 of Rhymer w/ Tactician + Snap Shot

2C - Clean up. Yup, got it

2C-INTERRUPT - Snap Shot triggers, Tactician triggers. T-70 receives stress and defends from shot (and all of those steps happen)

3 - Perform Action. You are now stressed due to tactician and cannot perform actions

2B - Check pilot stress. Pattern Analyzer moves this to after Perform Action. You now have a stress from tactician and can remove it

Just now, Khyros said:

I don't see how Tactician would stop you from taking an action IF you did a green.

Let's assume you start unstressed

Step 1 - Reveal Dial. Okay!

Step 2 - Execute Maneuver. This is done in substeps.

2A. Move ship, ship ends movement R2 of Rhymer w/ Tactician + Snap Shot

2A-INTERRUPT - Snap Shot triggers, Tactician triggers. T-70 receives stress and defends from shot (and all of those steps happen)

2B - Check pilot stress. If you did a green, you can clear a stress. Which you now have due to tactician.

2C - Clean up. Yup, got it

3 - Perform Action. You are now stress free and capable of performing actions.

Note, if for whatever reason you elected to use PA, it would move step 3 prior to 2B, and therefore you would still be stressed and could not take an action. But since PA is a "may," you're all set.

Incorrect, you have to complete all substeps to have "executed a maneuver"

1 minute ago, DeathstarII said:

Incorrect, you have to complete all substeps to have "executed a maneuver"

Fair enough, I will edit my post. So the Interrupt there would actually be after 2C, and you've already checked pilot stress, so you couldn't remove it.

So PA would still not let you take an action since it moves 2B after 3, not 3 before 2B. However, if you had PA, you would then clear the stress from tactician if you did a green.

1 hour ago, eagletsi111 said:

Ok. So basically the PA is useless versus snap shot, because your action is lost.

Snapshot tactician is about as rare as you can get though.