So, the chaos bag, am I right? For such an important part of the game we're given little instruction except you know, reach in and pick one.

So I feel like I'm picking the same token over and over fairly regularly. It's not so bad if the actions are relatively broken up, like if I end turn and then another player goes and I draw my next token during mythos or something. But I feel like if I am say, taking 3 tests on the same turn that I draw the same token more often than randomness would account for. I'm not *trying* to draw the same token , but I dunno, maybe it's a subconscious thing? Maybe my chaos bag is too small and my tokens arent getting sufficiently mixed.

there might be another reason. Tokens get "stuck" in the corner of the bag, it's harder to reach them, if they don't get returned to the center where the tokens are easier to get picked, I feel they are less likely to get chosen.

So I'm thinking of what sort of chaos bag creates optimal randomness. First off you could "cheat" the exercise and use an app or something. Similar to this, I made a chart assigning each token a value of 1-20 (with a few numbers assigned as rerolls because there are less than 20 tokens) enabling conversion of the chaos bag into d20 rolls.

But suppose you wanted to use a real bag (or other container) though. How big of a bag should it be? What shape? Do you shake it after each draw? Stick your fingers in and hand-mix them? Tie the bag shut and throw it across the room?

I tend to use a spare box for the card sleeves since there's more space inside and I can properly close it before I shake it between draws.

I use a large bowl. Not only is it faster but I seem to get a good mix.

I use a coffee mug. Before I draw a token, I cover the cup with my hand, give it a good shake upside down, put it on the table and fish for a token without looking.

I prefer this solution, because it is easy to handle one-handed, leaving my other hand for holding my hand cards...

I use a bag and give it a good shake.

I had the same issue. I felt the tokens didn't randomize properly, which gave me very easy, or very hard sessions. What I use now is a chaos bag app on my phone.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.cornbread.chaosbag

It's free, random, and decently made. idk if there is an iphone app like it.

1 hour ago, shosuko said:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.cornbread.chaosbag

It's free, random, and decently made. idk if there is an iphone app like it.

This is what I use. It's functional, and pretty streamlined, but it does have some glaring issues and has been abandoned since the first week of December (6 months ago). The option to add scenario-specific text to the special tokens would be nice, but trying to add that text just crashes the app, and building a custom token bag is incredibly clunky because there's no way to actually view the entire contents of the bag you're making (and it's almost impossible to scroll the list of tokens to add).

For Dunwich Legacy, we've just been using the default bag that the app has stored and used the 'add token' feature to put in the extra tokens that have come up over time (and we ignore the special that is in the bag by default that we managed to avoid getting added in early on).

It's functional, but it's not ideal. Frankly, I am really surprised that nobody has stepped up to make a function-complete app that runs well. I'd gladly even pay for one.

I've been working on a Chaos Bag app. I've been using it for a while and it's pretty solid, and the polish is finally to where I'm ready to release it. Just waiting on one more thing from my art guy, and it should hopefully be up this week.

Just a tease...

I would be remiss if I did not share this as a friend and I were recently discussing this aspect of the game.

The chaos big is a big barrier for my friend and for that reason the game does not hit the table as often as it could.

We discussed the possibility of replacing the Chaos Tokens with dice.
Simple and fun and we both enjoy throwing those bones.
After some consideration the simplest translation from Chaos Tokens to dice is to use a D16 and create a conversion chart for the results.

For standard difficulty there are 15 results.
If a 16 is rolled you simply re-roll.
(There were several other ideas I had including a push your luck mechanic or a simple +1 to your next die result but I did not want to modify the core rules)

After playing two games I came the conclusion that I really don't mind the Chaos Bag at all but now I also have a fun variant that allows us to roll weird 16 sided dice.

That's the Standard Chaos bag at the start of Dunwich. The bag for Night of the Zealot has an extra Tablet token. And you're not accounting for tokens you add during the campaign (you might add 1 after each of THAW, ECA and TMM, and you always add 1 when you start TECE and WDA - in NotZ, you always add 1 at the start of the 3rd scenario). And if you're going into chaos bag manipulation, like drawing multiple tokens at once (Grotesque Statue) or redrawing tokens without putting the previous ones back (some tokens make you do that), dice really do not cut it.

I've been using a standard Crown Royal bag and it seems to work well since it doesn't have any definitive corners. I personally love the mechanic for the flexibility it gives to the game and that sense of dread/tension as you draw your fate with your own hand and reveal it.

Just make sure you give the bag a good shake and rummage around it a bit before finally choosing.

What I would like to use as a physical chaos bag, if I could go through the production of it (I'm not a crafty person or an artist) is to get those glass beads and engrave each symbol into them. The glass beads would slide against each other very easily to randomize, and drawing 1 would be simple compared to the cardboard ghetto bag.

I encased all my Chaostokens into coin capsules. The mixing is way better with the smoother, heavier tokens the capsules give you. As a "bag" I usually go with a glass flower pot (milky or black). The glass lets the tokens shift well inside. Works really well. Dice conversion is a neat idea but I really like the tokens as something different after 30 years of dice chucking ;).

There is another free app called simply 'Arkham' available for iOS and I think it is available for Android as well. It lets you easily set up multiple bags and label them, but it does not let you enter data for the specific text of the graphic tokens based on the scenario/difficulty. I find it is simpler to pass around the phone or iPad sometimes than the physical bag, plus one of my playgroup likes to tie the bag when he is done, which annoys me...

2 hours ago, AsahinaMaebure said:

There is another free app called simply 'Arkham' available for iOS and I think it is available for Android as well. It lets you easily set up multiple bags and label them, but it does not let you enter data for the specific text of the graphic tokens based on the scenario/difficulty. I find it is simpler to pass around the phone or iPad sometimes than the physical bag, plus one of my playgroup likes to tie the bag when he is done, which annoys me...

There's nothing worse than a guy who always cinches the bag

16 hours ago, Hedgehobbit said:

I use a large bowl. Not only is it faster but I seem to get a good mix.

This. Just look away and rummage around a bit and presto.

I didn't like the constant token pulling at first, but it has grown on me.

now I wouln't choose a app over it as I quite like this physical aspect over the press of a button.

I press buttons all day long at work anyhoo.

9 hours ago, Khudzlin said:

That's the Standard Chaos bag at the start of Dunwich. The bag for Night of the Zealot has an extra Tablet token. And you're not accounting for tokens you add during the campaign (you might add 1 after each of THAW, ECA and TMM, and you always add 1 when you start TECE and WDA - in NotZ, you always add 1 at the start of the 3rd scenario). And if you're going into chaos bag manipulation, like drawing multiple tokens at once (Grotesque Statue) or redrawing tokens without putting the previous ones back (some tokens make you do that), dice really do not cut it.

Absolutely.

For other difficulties that require more / less results you can use a D20 or add multiple null / reroll values as needed.

Adding a token on standard? Remove the 16 / reroll result and replace with the added token value.

Multiple tokens? Multiple D16 or null value / reroll assigned to a result already pulled from the bag.

There is always a way but yes... the dice begin to become an impedance the more complex the mechanics interact with the Chaos Bag.

The Chaos Dice idea is just variant that I admittedly don't use when I play solo.

Here's what I believe to be the most amazing app for AHTCG at the Play Store (apparently, only available for Android at this time): the Arkham Campaign Guide . It basically replaces the printed campaign guide(s) and automates everything for you (resolutions, story card assets adding to decks, XP earned/spent, et. al ). You can keep track of an infinite number of campaigns using any of the investigators and it will even link each investigator to any deck (via URL) at ArkhamDB.com. Saves all the campaigns to your device, allows you to do side quests (PODs, etc.) AND features a virtual chaos bag that is robust and easily adjusted.

The dev has kept up with every single exp pack, updating the app within days of release.

It used to floor me that so few players have heard of the app, but that's because you can't find it very easily at the Play Store. Search for "arkham horror" or "arkham horror card game" , it doesn't show up. It will show up if you search for simply "arkham", but I feel that most people don't do so in order to filter out all the Batman hits. Searching for "arkham campaign" brings it right up.

Anyway... here's the link: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.whitdan.arkhamhorrorlcgcampaignguide

Even if you only use it for the Chaos Bag, it's great; but I imagine some peeps will find the entire app really useful.

--> My first post here (and first LCG, too!)... fantastic community. Just thought I'd finally chime in.

5 hours ago, AsahinaMaebure said:

There is another free app called simply 'Arkham' available for iOS and I think it is available for Android as well. It lets you easily set up multiple bags and label them, but it does not let you enter data for the specific text of the graphic tokens based on the scenario/difficulty. I find it is simpler to pass around the phone or iPad sometimes than the physical bag, plus one of my playgroup likes to tie the bag when he is done, which annoys me...

Can you provide a link to it please? When I search Arkham I get a million batman apps, or apps for the arkham board games.

4 hours ago, shosuko said:

Can you provide a link to it please? When I search Arkham I get a million batman apps, or apps for the arkham board games.

Here is the link, or if you search for Arkham Horror Toolkit it is the second result.

Arkham by Gergely Kovacs
https://appsto.re/us/FJpVeb.i

4 hours ago, BFactor said:

Here's what I believe to be the most amazing app for AHTCG at the Play Store (apparently, only available for Android at this time): the Arkham Campaign Guide .

This sounds like an amazing app. I just wish it were available for iOS. ?

5 hours ago, BFactor said:

the link: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.whitdan.arkhamhorrorlcgcampaignguide

Even if you only use it for the Chaos Bag, it's great; but I imagine some peeps will find the entire app really useful.

--> My first post here (and first LCG, too!)... fantastic community. Just thought I'd finally chime in.

Wow - when it said "arkham campaign guide" I thought it was a tool for the rpg, or board game. I didn't realize it was for the LCG. I'm gonna grab that!! thx!

Apps are great, but I like the feeling of grabbing my own chaos, "shall I take this one....".

Leuchttrum makes excellent Ultra coin caps, I'll recommend the 25 mm, a perfect fit.

Guide to Coin Capsules for the Arkham Horror LCG Card Game

That looks great Blimp - I'll try that