What if the Reinforce upgrade came at the cost of losing the Evade action from your action bar?

On 6/10/2017 at 10:27 AM, clanofwolves said:

Why this ? Why faction specific?

@Kdubb is correct, @NakedDex has the sentiment of the majority I'd wager; this could bring a real wrecking ball to X-Wing; it's not balanced now, it would be crazy bad if this came and don't car creep went askew faster. I'm hoping the Wookie Gunship has the Lambda dial so it doesn't go meta nuts. And Biggs, uggggggg! He's awful gameplay wise and cannon now, he'd be game destroying. The only ship that it wouldn't buff to meta using would be the Punisher, but I'm hoping FFG has something planned for them akin to the 'Guns for Hire' titles.

Hahaha Lambda dial..
If only, but it's rebel so it's gotta be all white because Kannan.

I'd be very hesitant to allow reinforce in any form where it could be attached to any of the following:

Countess Ryad w/Push The Limit

Rey w/Finn

Fenn Rau w/Concord Dawn Protector

Biggs is going to be nasty enough now you've potentially got selflessness on a regen ship as a super-draw-their-fire.

On 6/10/2017 at 7:42 AM, BenDay said:

I also think that you will see more cheap two attack ships as a counter to jousters with reinforce.

This is completely backwards. Reinforce would further drive 2-Die attacks from the meta. The best thing against a Reinforce token is a big high quality attack (lots of red dice in one roll + lots of mods). This is what is also good against high agility, heavily modified defenses. So it would actually worsen that aspect of the meta where only high-quality attacks are viable.


Think of it this way:

A 2-Die attack with Focus (at R2, unobstructed, against a Reinforced 1 Agility target without Focus, eg the Wookiee Wundership) only has a piddly 0.125 expected damage (1.5 Hits - 1.375 Evades). The attack rolls two red dice, each with 75% of a hit (hit/focus) while the defender rolls one green die with a 37.5% chance of an evade and adds an automatic evade. This is to say nothing of the cases where the Defender is at R3, or obstructed, or has a Focus, or is more than 1 Agility...


Think of this way: against 8 attacks, a Reinforce tokens adds 8 Evade results and mitigates 8 damage. Against two high-quality attacks, a Reinforce token only adds two evade results and mitigates two damage. So the best weapon against it is a few, high-dice high-quality attacks.



Blanket Reinforce would be the fastest way to drive all 2-Die (and probably 3-Die) attack ships further from the game.

@AllWingsStandyingBy is correct; the more I ponder reinforce on most ships, the more absolutely terrible it is. Our X-Wing crew are all trusting the plastic crack designers will finally man up and nerf Biggs. If he doesn't gets nerfed, there is the possibility that that game fun sucking bastard gets reinforce too; holy h***, the game state would truly suck balls....FFG hopefully doesn't listen to any of this reinforce nonsense, let's all hope beyond hope.

OK, a bit of a rant sorry....just need the FAQ to finally drop so we can all move along.

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I'd be very hesitant to allow reinforce in any form where it could be attached to any of the following:

Countess Ryad w/Push The Limit

Rey w/Finn

Fenn Rau w/Concord Dawn Protector

Biggs is going to be nasty enough now you've potentially got selflessness on a regen ship as a super-draw-their-fire.

Keep in mind that Selflessness is a Discard EPT. You can soak a potential killshot on Biggs, but that's all.

While the gist of your post is completely right IMO...

59 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

only has a piddly 0.125 expected damage (1.5 Hits - 1.375 Evades).

That's not entirely correct. Only 2hits vs 0+1 evades will do 1 damage. This has a (2,2)*0.5^2 * (1,1)*0.625^1 = 0.15625 expected damage, because you only hit if he rolls a 0 AND you roll 2 damage.

So first things first,

2 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

This is completely backwards. Reinforce would further drive 2-Die attacks from the meta. The best thing against a Reinforce token is a big high quality attack (lots of red dice in one roll + lots of mods). This is what is also good against high agility, heavily modified defenses. So it would actually worsen that aspect of the meta where only high-quality attacks are viable.


Think of it this way:

A 2-Die attack with Focus (at R2, unobstructed, against a Reinforced 1 Agility target without Focus, eg the Wookiee Wundership) only has a piddly 0.125 expected damage (1.5 Hits - 1.375 Evades). The attack rolls two red dice, each with 75% of a hit (hit/focus) while the defender rolls one green die with a 37.5% chance of an evade and adds an automatic evade. This is to say nothing of the cases where the Defender is at R3, or obstructed, or has a Focus, or is more than 1 Agility...


Think of this way: against 8 attacks, a Reinforce tokens adds 8 Evade results and mitigates 8 damage. Against two high-quality attacks, a Reinforce token only adds two evade results and mitigates two damage. So the best weapon against it is a few, high-dice high-quality attacks.



Blanket Reinforce would be the fastest way to drive all 2-Die (and probably 3-Die) attack ships further from the game.

All 8 shots would not be from the same direction or it is your fault they don't go through, yes the swarm would be harder to fly but you could still do crack swarm for added punch.

That said, I think I have it!!

The card could read

Action: If you have two, or more, shield tokens assigned to your ship you may perform a reinforce action. Not compatible with X/7 tittle.

This would be thematically cool as once the ship's shield were gone he couldn't angle them anymore and you need more than one to create the reinforcing effect (for or aft) of the reinforce action. Game play wise it would mean old Biggs only gets one or two rounds of it before his shields are gone and he has nothing to deflect anymore. As for the X/7 condition well it would just become a bit much if you could have both. As for the falcon having stacks of focus from rey and another defensive crew (say C3P0), it only has one agility, so while you would end up with 3 dodges while you have focus to spend your ship is very expensive so you are probably out numbered and your 3 dice turret is well, not so hot without focus to boost it.

I also think the reference to wave 5 is very... well wave 5. Back then the 4 dice HLC was considered the mother of all cannons and today you can pull off 5 dice without trying too hard.

3 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I'd be very hesitant to allow reinforce in any form where it could be attached to any of the following:

Countess Ryad w/Push The Limit

Rey w/Finn

Fenn Rau w/Concord Dawn Protector

Biggs is going to be nasty enough now you've potentially got selflessness on a regen ship as a super-draw-their-fire.

What are the details of the Rey w/Finn build?

FFG have always said that a massively defensively orientated meta is boring so I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that we won't be seeing the Reinforce action outside of Epic again.

The only other version of the Reinforce token we have at present is the Concord Dawn title and that has a ton of caveats and still gets moaned about, imagine more ships getting the same treatment?

At the end of the day it is their game. I think it is a good, balanced idea that for now will stay at casual games around my table.

On 6/10/2017 at 10:02 AM, BenDay said:

please read before you rant...

I want to live in that world.

13 hours ago, Viktus106 said:

FFG have always said that a massively defensively orientated meta is boring so I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that we won't be seeing the Reinforce action outside of Epic again.

The only other version of the Reinforce token we have at present is the Concord Dawn title and that has a ton of caveats and still gets moaned about, imagine more ships getting the same treatment?

"Darn it. X-wings are so strong now. That reinforce token whenever they decloak is getting a bit out of hand when coupled with their 5 attack dice at range 4."

At this point, anything to get the X-wing back into the game....

Can you imagine how dumb the ghost would be if it could take a mod or crew that gave it a reinforce token? Or the decimator that gets a free evade when its damaged...