Just for clarification, with Kad Solus and Stay on Target, he is able to rotate his dial to another maneuver that is the same speed and treat it as a red maneuver. I also understand that he can do this even if he has stress, as the initial maneuver revealed was either green or white, it would not have been an illegal maneuver. I have been doing research, but I don't feel that my question has been explored.

My question relates to the Tallon rolls. If Kad is stressed and reveals a "2" speed maneuver, could he then rotate his dial with Stay on Target to a tallon roll or would the stress prevent him from rotating his dial to a red maneuver?

He could rotate to a red maneuver, but he'd do a white two straight and not trigger his ability

Can you explain this further, please?

My understanding is that all "2" speed maneuvers would be "red" maneuvers, per the Stay on Target text that states "Treat that maneuver as a red maneuver". Since the selected maneuver would be treated as a red maneuver regardless of choice, and the pilot is already stressed, what ruling prevents the Tallon Roll from being selected.

I'm not trying to be difficult, I just need solid evidence one way or the other.

Revealing a red maneuver while stressed is what, you cannot do a red maneuver while stressed (unless you have hera crew or were BoSheked into it)

The reveal of the dial is before it is rotated with Stay on Target. When it is rotated to any other maneuver of the same speed, that maneuver is considered red so your argument is not accurate. Could you provide a FAQ or rules reference to help me out?

If you're already stressed; trying to do a red manouver causes you to do a two straight as you cannot do a red move whilst stressed. You could use SoT to change your revealed manouver to something else, but that would make it red. At that point, you're stressed trying to perform a red move while stressed. So you'd end up going 2 straight, white.

The thing is you think that the rule states that you cant reveal red maneuvers while stressed, and it actually says you cant execute red maneuvers while stressed.

It doesnt matter what you revealed and what you do with your dial. If you are trying to execute a red maneuver while stressed, you would do a 2 white straight instead

Willy beat me to it.

The OLD rule is about revealing red manoeuvres while stressed. The change in the rules now makes it that you cannot perform them while stressed period. If you have a stress it doesnm't matter what you reveal or what you SoT to, you will be doing that white 2↑.

33 minutes ago, InquisitorM said:

Willy beat me to it.

The OLD rule is about revealing red manoeuvres while stressed. The change in the rules now makes it that you cannot perform them while stressed period. If you have a stress it doesnm't matter what you reveal or what you SoT to, you will be doing that white 2↑.

Unless you have Hera crew equipped.

Apologize in advance for the overlong post. @Willy Jarque @InquisitorM I thought I was just going to add citations to what you guys said, but I came across an oddity while looking up the FAQ version of this rule.

The current FAQ 4.3.3 which has an entry on p.3 that erratas the rule from 'opponent chooses' to 'automatic white 2↑' on p.18 of the Rules Reference. The errata entry also adds this caveat: "If a stressed ship reveals a red maneuver (and cannot use a game effect to rotate its dial or execute a non-red maneuver instead)..."

I do believe this FAQ is where @VillanyColorado's confusion comes in! The way the parenthesized part is worded can be interpred as two phrases: 'rotate its dial' and 'execute a non-red maneuver' are modifiers to 'instead'. It is commonly ruled that 'rotate its dial' and 'execute' are both modifiers to 'a non-red maneuver'. If you break down the possible phrases you get (1)'...and cannot use a game effect to rotate its dial...instead' vs. (2)'...and cannot use a game effect to rotate its dial...a non-red maneuver instead'. Honestly, (1) is slightly better grammar

I'm unsure why they included the thing about rotating your dial at all. Is rotating not considered changing? (rhetorical, rotating is obviously changing)

Here's the smallest correction to the errata to make it less ambiguously say what TOs already rule it as: "If a stressed ship reveals a red maneuver (and cannot use a game effect to rotate its dial to, or execute, a non-red maneuver instead)..."

Or even less ambiguous, with a bonus for being shorter: "If a stressed ship reveals a red maneuver (and cannot use a game effect to execute a non-red maneuver instead)..."

I can only think of three cards that rotate your dial after revealing. Navigator can change a red to a white(B-wing/e2 can go from red bank-3 to green bank-1) this is probably what the faq'er had in mind. BoShek has an explicit override on red maneuvers. Stay on Target always makes the rotated maneuver red, but I can see where the confusion comes in regarding whether or not this new maneuver is 'revealed'. Most

TL,DR: a) errata needs to be made less ambiguous on p.3, or b) SoT needs new errata on p.4 to say you are revealing the new maneuver, or c) FAQ needs a new clarification entry on p.20 saying you can SoT while stressed, or d) FAQ needs an entry saying that 'treat a maneuver as something new' includes 'revealing' the new maneuver. (I didn't realize there were already so many entries related to SoT!)

Good catch VC. These instances of the competetive community glancing over tiny changes and going by RAI rather than RAW are getting more common as FFG's FAQs get more and more convoluted. Hotshot Copilot's FAQ clarification is a mess and the wording on Targeting Synchronizer is not clear as to whether an Attack (Target Lock): header is required for the friendly to also get the second sentence, but at least that one has a clear FAQ entry.

The general rule of the game is that rotating to a new maneouvre is revealing that manoeuvre. Otherwise Heragator and Fettigator wouldn't work, and they do.

You're not wrong, Nito. This is yet another case of the errata/clarification being absurdly unclear. If the rules are to be taken literally, then using Stay on Target to change a revealed non-red manoeuvre into a red while stressed results in a ship executing no manoeuvre at all. The rules reference is quite clear that a stressed ship cannot execute a red manoeuvre, but since it didn't reveal one, it doesn't trigger the 2↑.

Long live rules clarification, huh?

1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

The general rule of the game is that rotating to a new maneouvre is revealing that manoeuvre. Otherwise Heragator and Fettigator wouldn't work, and they do.

And I'd love to see that written down, because there's things that are not intuitive, and there's things like this that wholly counter-intuitive. It's absurd that this has be even be a talking point.

3 hours ago, nitrobenz said:

can only think of three cards that rotate your dial after revealing. Navigator can change a red to a white(B-wing/e2 can go from red bank-3 to green bank-1) this is probably what the faq'er had in mind. BoShek has an explicit override on red maneuvers. Stay on Target always makes the rotated maneuver red, but I can see where the confusion comes in regarding whether or not this new maneuver is 'revealed'.

Inertial Dampeners is a way to execute a White maneuver when you reveal a red one.

2 hours ago, Achowat said:

Inertial Dampeners is a way to execute a White maneuver when you reveal a red one.

Correct, I was specifically listing things that 'rotate' a dial to illustrate that each one has a different relation to the 'when you reveal a red' rule. Inertial Dampers is an 'instead' card and so easily falls under the "execute a non-red maneuver instead" part of that rule.

6 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

The general rule of the game is that rotating to a new maneouvre is revealing that manoeuvre. Otherwise Heragator and Fettigator wouldn't work, and they do.

Good point spaceinvader, I forgot Hera and Boba in my list. By the argument made by VC, Hera (pilot) has the same potential loophole as SoT.