One thing I dont think any of the people who are giving FFG a hard time about the FAQ turn around are considering is that any Star Wars product needs to go through an additional approval process from Disney/LF and that can be a huge road block I am sure. Also they will not just crap out a bunch of "fixes" for Armada without seeing how they affect the game outside of a testing environment. You can test the crap out of something but as any software developer will tell you no new software or update survives contact with the public and this applies to testing games. They are also notorious for slow rolling out fixes for Armada and seeing how it impacts the meta for this very reason. I think this is smart so I suspect in the next FAQ we will see some initial fixes for the current pain points in the game. Just be patient and understand that it will probably not fix all the issues but it will be a start.

This game still rocks and I have no intention not playing it. In fact I love the challenge of "broken" aspects of the meta and finding ways to beat the unbeatable lists which is not as hard as it sounds.

We also haven't seen the 'quad battery turrets' card yet. What if the text of this card reads:

"Squadrons cannot use brace defence tokens or redirect damage to another squadron when this card is equipped"

Or something to that extent. This card would certainly hurt when inserted into someone's aceholes, fix a fair portion of the meta and also make hammerheads and quasars fly off the shelves like hotcakes.

I'm pretty tired of flotillas right now...

...but do you remember the game as it was BEFORE flotillas?

IMO it's much better now than it ever was before.

That said, it looks like we've reached the point powerful combos are possible, above and beyond Rhymer and Demo, making list building and meta analysis more important than ever.

Anyway. Really tired of flotillas right now, did I say that? Looking forward to wave 6.

1 hour ago, Overdawg said:

One thing I dont think any of the people who are giving FFG a hard time about the FAQ turn around are considering is that any Star Wars product needs to go through an additional approval process from Disney/LF and that can be a huge road block I am sure. Also they will not just crap out a bunch of "fixes" for Armada without seeing how they affect the game outside of a testing environment. You can test the crap out of something but as any software developer will tell you no new software or update survives contact with the public and this applies to testing games. They are also notorious for slow rolling out fixes for Armada and seeing how it impacts the meta for this very reason. I think this is smart so I suspect in the next FAQ we will see some initial fixes for the current pain points in the game. Just be patient and understand that it will probably not fix all the issues but it will be a start.

This game still rocks and I have no intention not playing it. In fact I love the challenge of "broken" aspects of the meta and finding ways to beat the unbeatable lists which is not as hard as it sounds.

This. This. A hundred times this. I'll be rolling out a no-flotilla, 4 activation Imp list at some point in wave 6 just to be anti-meta.

I generally don't run squadrons. Like, at all. Not even a couple of filler TIEs. I do sometimes still use flotillas in those lists, as they can be used for more than just squadron/activations. Suppressor, Slicer Tools, Comms Net, Leia, Repair Crews, etc are all fairly useful in their own right, and generally promote a more... aggressive use of the flotillas, which I think even the most ardent opponent of them would agree is to be promoted.

With that said, I'm probably going to start running a few large-ish squadrons, with the Quasar about to drop. I really love the idea of that ship, and I really want to get it on the table. I don't want it to be like the Interdictor, a ship that I love using, but rarely actually appears in my lists, so I'm going to have to suck it up and get my squadron on. The Quasar does, however, mean we might see some 3-4 ship lists with medium squadron counts, which is something I could get behind.

5 hours ago, jorgen_cab said:

I said it before and I will say it again... tournament play is not the ONLY way to play and is not the ONLY way you can make a list and play the game and even be competitive. You can quite easily win a game consistently with three activation it your goal is to NOT LOSE... you are not interested in tabling your opponent as you must to win a tournament. Your goal is to just claim the objective and either draw or win the game. As a competitive player you can make it your goal to not be beaten, that's it... it works.

If you play this way you can make your list in a multitude of ways... you are not forced to drive your ship into enemy firing range if you don't like to. Bring large number of anti-fighter power before bomber power to make sure you are never overwhelmed by enemy squadrons. First order of business is to NOT lose, second is to WIN. In reality you NEVER attack unless you are certain you will win and a stalemate is acceptable rather than loosing. If you approach the game with that mentality your lists and games can become a bit more engaging and fun.

Even in our "one off" games we allow people to hyperspace ships out of combat whenever they like to preserve their points. A ship that hyperspace out are simply not worth ANY victory points to the opponent but it leave you weaker on the table. This means that you plan your attack more carefully in a way so you can disengage if things don't go as you expected thus denying the opponent the price.

You need to have more fun and don't treat your game evening as competitions... I never understood why that is even a thing among friends.

Sure if you go to a tournament (or train for one) but then it is no longer Star Wars, it is just a game with numbers and you might as well remove the ships and run with cardboard chits. Now, I was a bit mean and don't imply you have no feelings for the Star Wars universe or anything like that. I just try to convey the thought that you don't have to treat the game as a competition whenever you play, what is the fun in that.

The game do have its problem with activation mechanic and I hope FFG look at that eventually, but in casual play you can fix it yourself, you don't need anyone's permission for house rules. Spice up the game environment a bit.

Exactly. This guy gets it. Too many admiral neilsons in this thread that are having a meltdown. It's a game, it's for fun, it is not a sporting event where winning and losing is everything.

14 minutes ago, ninclouse2000 said:

Exactly. This guy gets it. Too many admiral neilsons in this thread that are having a meltdown. It's a game, it's for fun, it is not a sporting event where winning and losing is everything.

Reasoned points in a manner that tries to be as neutral as possible = complete emotional overreaction followed by a meltdown.

Makes no insinuations that they don't also play the game for fun = winning and losing is everything. Holy **** I cannot stress this point enough. Just because people have issues with a game doesn't mean that they're sitting there going f**k Armada, never had fun with this, its all about the winning.

Also, for that matter, (referring to the comment you quoted) just straight up invalidate the reasons why some people play, that's cool.

This doesn't just apply to your comment, but the vast majority of people reacting following my last comment.

RE: @SkyCake you'll have your stellar community when you push out any dissenters right?

The implied assertions that those on this side of the fence play no part in building communities, or aren't involved in the enjoyment of the game generally, is incredibly grating.

Lets skip over the fact that myself and @Irokenics have poured days and days into demoing games, promoting and running events, as well as producing content for the community generally (both in video and written form). You're right, you caught us, clearly we hate the game and don't love it enough. We just can't appreciate the fine woman the way you do. Darn.

Don't worry, I'll see myself out.

2 hours ago, Green Knight said:

I'm pretty tired of flotillas right now...

...but do you remember the game as it was BEFORE flotillas?

IMO it's much better now than it ever was before.

Ill actually extend an olive branch to say, I mostly agree here. Thats why Ive stated several times in several threads that the issue isnt flotillas themselves. The issue is the activation mechanic. It always was. It likely always will be. Gutting flotillas will just make Caldias' MC30 swarm more powerful. It won't balance anything, it will likely UNBALANCE it.

The only true fix is likely a pass mechanic.

25 minutes ago, Captain Weather said:

Reasoned points in a manner that tries to be as neutral as possible = complete emotional overreaction followed by a meltdown.

Makes no insinuations that they don't also play the game for fun = winning and losing is everything. Holy **** I cannot stress this point enough. Just because people have issues with a game doesn't mean that they're sitting there going f**k Armada, never had fun with this, its all about the winning.

Also, for that matter, (referring to the comment you quoted) just straight up invalidate the reasons why some people play, that's cool.

This doesn't just apply to your comment, but the vast majority of people reacting following my last comment.

RE: @SkyCake you'll have your stellar community when you push out any dissenters right?

The implied assertions that those on this side of the fence play no part in building communities, or aren't involved in the enjoyment of the game generally, is incredibly grating.

Lets skip over the fact that myself and @Irokenics have poured days and days into demoing games, promoting and running events, as well as producing content for the community generally (both in video and written form). You're right, you caught us, clearly we hate the game and don't love it enough. We just can't appreciate the fine woman the way you do. Darn.

Don't worry, I'll see myself out.

For what it's worth, I'd like to point out, at least for my own part, that I did not mean to imply that nobody had fun playing Armada however they currently play it. As I don't know them, I cannot have an opinion about that. My comments were aimed at addressing the fact that the OP's group was falling apart seemingly because they were playing as if they were playing in a tourney during their casual meetings.

35 minutes ago, Captain Weather said:

Don't worry, I'll see myself out.

This makes me really sad.

Are there too many posts about "problems" right now like activations and flotillas? yes.

However, there really is no excuse to belittle people their posts and overreact to things (on any side of issues I would add!). We should be together as a community of Armada gamers. Any discussions about the game should always have the perspective that this is a game and that folks are allowed to have their opinions.

Let's not push anyone away from the forum that is trying to stay connected.

40 minutes ago, WuFame said:

Ill actually extend an olive branch to say, I mostly agree here. Thats why Ive stated several times in several threads that the issue isnt flotillas themselves. The issue is the activation mechanic. It always was. It likely always will be. Gutting flotillas will just make Caldias' MC30 swarm more powerful. It won't balance anything, it will likely UNBALANCE it.

The only true fix is likely a pass mechanic.

Yeah, the before flotilla times were bad as it was limited what was viable. And activation advantage has always been powerful.

I'm just not sure it is so powerful that it breaks the game.

So, assuming that a pass mechanic won't be here for a long time what else can be done that is under the players control?

While I don't agree that activation advantage is dominating the game to the point of breaking it, I sympathize with those that do. I've been trying to brainstorm counters, etc to activation advantage in the hopes of shifting things. What have you, and your community as I know it includes some great players, found that works?

I really think a fleet that can solve or counter high activations could easily sweep GenCon or Nationals this summer.

9 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

Hey Skycake. Just so you know, I got to 2nd place (missed first by a single tournament point) with only 4 activations.

I also looked at what was necessary to really push even harder, and I have to tell you, it's pretty discouraging. Basically, I had to immediately re-establish activation superiority to have a chance at winning. Activation superiority is effectively mandatory to win Armada, which is why after the first big attack the game snowballs towards whomever has the highest quality/quantity (and that's literally Quality divided by Quantity) activations left.

I'm pretty sure your fraction is upside down. Quality divided by Quantity goes to infinity as Quantity goes to zero. If it's Quantity over Quality, it goes to zero with Quantity. It's an interesting way to measure who has nominal advantage at a given point in time for sure.

1 hour ago, Captain Weather said:

The implied assertions that those on this side of the fence play no part in building communities, or aren't involved in the enjoyment of the game generally, is incredibly grating.

Seconding this. Caldias and I work hard locally along with others to keep the Raleigh community chugging. We do our best to engage new players and we don't bombard them out the gate with what we feel is Armada's dirty laundry. I think it's easier for some people to assume there's some sort of flaw in us as players or as people or as communities. I don't see any other way someone can equate what we're talking about to a neckbeard nitpicking a pretty girl.

I will add that, with a minor amount of exceptions, I've seen a lot of patience and understanding even from people that disagree with us and that isn't unnoticed. You guys have endured a LOT of frustration for a very long time, and I truly am sorry for that. That's gotta be the biggest buzz kill ever and nobody on my side intended this to turn into a 6 month argument.

I'm on this forum almost daily reading the new posts, maybe liking or responding to something less often, or occasionally putting up a post of my own. I have absolutely no doubt that everyone who is on here loves and enjoys this game. The game isn't perfect, and those perceived imperfections depend greatly on our individual approach to the game. My shtick is thematic and my biggest beef with the game is the insufficient number of titles for existing ships as we have an excessive number of commanders without their associated vessel. I also don't like flying a ship without a name. I have no idea if FFG is going to eventually release additional titles, so to address this, I recently decided to make my own identification tokens. The commanders will get their ships, every ship will have a name, and this is a solution I can live with until FFG maybe someday decides to add more titles to the game.

I can appreciate the issues that the tourney players bring up in regards to activations, Rieekan, flotillas, etc. Your approach to the game involves building winning lists, and I can see how these issues impact what you create and play. I haven't played in a tourney yet, so I don't have a solution to offer for some of your concerns. I don't know if it involves a build, a strategy, a nerf, or whatever. I do think that the solution is out there somewhere, and that ultimately it will make the game better for everyone.

I can also appreciate the ideas brought forward by the players who approach the game from a non-competitive point of view. I guess my approach would put me more in this camp. I make house rules. I play 180, 300, and 400 plus point games by myself. The CC Campaign rocks and if you saw my article on the Asteroids objective...well the more asteroids the better.

I've learned something from everyone here. I've enjoyed my recent games with @Thraug and @Rune Taq. I've gotten constructive feedback on my lists and strategies. I've learned how to "Cap the T" from watching the video made by @shmitty, discovered Armada Warlords and Kuat Drive Yards, and I've had some great private conversations on a variety of topics with several players here. I have a lot of respect for the members of this forum, but just like the game, this community isn't perfect. Occasionally the posts become overly dramatic and voices get snarky. The discussion devolves. A newer member tries to contribute something to the discussion and gets completely ignored. The "Nelson" is invoked (whoever he was), and Armada is declared deceased, no force ghost allowed.

I really feel for the new guy.

We all come here to share our passion for Armada, to discuss our successes and concerns, to get constructive feedback, and to find other players with whom we can enjoy this game. Maybe this community needs a nerf to remind us of that from time to time.

3 hours ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

This makes me really sad.

Are there too many posts about "problems" right now like activations and flotillas? yes.

However, there really is no excuse to belittle people their posts and overreact to things (on any side of issues I would add!). We should be together as a community of Armada gamers. Any discussions about the game should always have the perspective that this is a game and that folks are allowed to have their opinions.

Let's not push anyone away from the forum that is trying to stay connected.

I'll be around - batreps, articles, all that jazz!

I just think that further contributing to the literature of the 'negative play experience' on the one hand (which does belie the fun on offer in Armada), and being frustrated over certain dismissive responses on the other, is not productive for anyone and a good sign that it's time to step back from the forums, at least for a little while.

Also for the love of god, someone please link the Admiral Nelson meltdown thread for the commenter above me. Ahahahaha that was a time to be alive.

I've said this in the past, but it's worth reiterating in this thread: I've tested a pass mechanic and it caused a whole new problem. Namely, it would utterly destroy MSU in favor of large, powerful activations. Right now quantity mostly trumps quality. A pass mechanic flips it, nothing more.

10 minutes ago, Truthiness said:

I've said this in the past, but it's worth reiterating in this thread: I've tested a pass mechanic and it caused a whole new problem. Namely, it would utterly destroy MSU in favor of large, powerful activations. Right now quantity mostly Trump's quality. A pass mechanic flips it, nothing more.

No... I agree that this is not going to work. You need an "over-watch" mechanic that you need to work for and that have both advantages and disadvantages. It will mitigate the activation advantage and introduce a new interesting mechanic you need to take into account. It will still be an advantage with more activations.

2 hours ago, Truthiness said:

Right now quantity mostly Trump's quality.

I noticed you capitalized trump there... What's that about.

I'm a newbie, and playing friends in homes is drastically different and varied, from the LGS....there it's Flotillas, butt loads of squadrons, and this:

everywhere!

It's like they didn't follow Euros or something, very narrow on their focus, and they'll lambast a newbie like me in a flat second....as they prep for their next tourney ?

1 hour ago, WuFame said:

I noticed you capitalized trump there... What's that about.

Probably autocorrect. My phone started capitalizing Trump roughyl about the time he became the Republican nominee.

Lets please, please please not discuss politics here. I have plenty of places I can go to for that regardless of political stance.

51 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

Probably autocorrect. My phone started capitalizing Trump roughyl about the time he became the Republican nominee.

Lets please, please please not discuss politics here. I have plenty of places I can go to for that regardless of political stance.

Sorry, I didn't really think that was political. I was just making a joke because I assumed it was force of habit.

Just now, WuFame said:

Sorry, I didn't really think that was political. I was just making a joke because I assumed it was force of habit.

I think you were, but things have been getting tense lately.

3 hours ago, WuFame said:

I noticed you capitalized trump there... What's that about.

Ha! Gotta love auto correct.

Slightly back on topic, we keep hearing about euros being this amazing Rieekan counter, really, no one has given a reasoned explanation as to how or why the euros lists counter rieekan. nor even, what the counter even is. crazy enough, there isn't even a set of lists!?!?! the only reason you arent hearing me whining that the topx/8 are all squadrons is cuz that info hasn't been presented! yet, supposedy euros fixes the game! Whee. i hate this carp logic.

Oh also, more max squadrons beats max squadrons. YAY.

Squadrons are integral to star wars fleet combat. In your starter set, you got 3 ships and 10 squadrons. The real problem is the gamey-gimmicky feel of using ships as a pass mechanic (i.e. flotillas with no fleet support upgrades etc). Other than that the meta is imbalanced but no more than most wargames. Lets not be overdramatic.