Oh man, I've seen this kind of thing before. I've also seen the "just house rules it" approach.

That's the sign of a sinking ship that needs to be righted quick.

I'm not saying this because I want it to happen or to be all negative Nancy, but again: I've been through this before with another game. Once you start having to put limits on things yourself it can get frustrating for other players just like it's frustrating for you. Then the circle spins on until no one wants to play.

If this is getting commonplace, FFG needs to take a serious look at it

Players that play 8 million flotillas lack vision. It's players that do things like this for the all mighty win and "the meta" that keep me from even attempting a tournament.

Just because the cheese is legal, doesn't mean you aren't killing the fun.

34 minutes ago, geek19 said:

"Armada better change right now or else I'm quitting RIGHT NOW YOU GUYS!"

I think you are being a little hyperbolic about this. No one has come close to this tone.

Just now, CaribbeanNinja said:

I think you are being a little hyperbolic about this. No one has come close to this tone.

Me? Hyperbole? Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

1 hour ago, geek19 said:

Do I get to state that our local community is running fine and people are playing what they want, usually somewhere between 4 and 6 ships, and activation spam isn't a problem? I mean, it sucks for the OP, but so far this entire thread has come down on the side of "Armada better change right now or else I'm quitting RIGHT NOW YOU GUYS!" and I'm not seeing that up here. It sucks, and I sympathize with you all who are having trouble in your communities, but just in case anyone thinking of getting into Armada thinks the game is either bad or dying..... it's not? Our community is actually growing up here.

I'm not trying to say everything's fine, but everyone's doom and gloom posts before we get a new wave in (handwave) 2-3 weeks is really kinda bumming me out. I get that apparently everyone and their moms is bringing 7 flotillas a side with one Demolisher and 134 points of X-wings, but that's not the only way to win the game. There are other lists and options and all. If things are so bad that everyone in your meta is bringing 200 points of flotillas to make sure they get the last activation, how do you build a list to take advantage of that fact and fight it? That's what I would start looking towards, personally. (I say, of course, without having that problem up here. I'm not sure a "can't beat em, join em" approach will make things better for you.)

Of course you can totes say that.

But we're gonna keep saying this. Doom and gloom. Also, you might have never experience the full doom and gloom of having to join them. Wow. That sucked so hard. I don't even want to play anymore.

28 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

I think you are being a little hyperbolic about this. No one has come close to this tone.

I think I'm getting pretty close. Also note how many contributors have left recently. Reinholt, uhh, someone else... did it start with an M?

I'm so out of the game thanks to my personal life. But I intend to hit a few SC's up. However between never having a local player base and the lack of time to make it happen, I can relate to those getting tired. It's a little disheartening to see the main way to be competitive is 5 activations.

I don't intend to sell. I like the models enough to display them even if the game disappears. But sadly, I can say if wave 6 or 7 doesn't do something or really wows, I'll probably throttle back on purchases.

6 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Of course you can totes say that.

But we're gonna keep saying this. Doom and gloom. Also, you might have never experience the full doom and gloom of having to join them. Wow. That sucked so hard. I don't even want to play anymore.

4 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

I think I'm getting pretty close. Also note how many contributors have left recently. Reinholt, uhh, someone else... did it start with an M?

Seriously Blail how does this help?

Just now, CaribbeanNinja said:

Seriously Blail how does this help?

Sometimes in a blue moon, a design company actually stops to think about what they've done to their game.

Starcraft 2. still waiting on World of Warships, they've shown some react to general perspective. Xwing has a huge history of attempting to fix its game... to only partial success. But they did listen and try.

Sadly, Xwing is in a very poor state right now. Jumpmasters are still top after 4 nerfs, Imperials are non existent down to the top 32 level.

Also. I still like and buy the models, got into this game for the SHIP models. (definitely not the squadron models). Though, I can and will vehemently disown the gameplay and its balance if nothing changes. I never knew ye.

5 hours ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

I'm sticking with Armada. I'm not selling my stuff. I just can feel the tremors in the force. The players described above are NOT alarmists spoiled brats. They are good people who really like this game and want it to succeed.

There is just so much going for Armada. So much of it is sound. I hope it can survive long enough. (it is not dead yet!)

Same FFG just needs to stop being so damned afraid to errata. Games of this nature grow and occasionally need revision to keep them on track, as well as keep the design space expanding, it is normal. I mean X wing finally got something at least, but from what I understand it was a bit long in the tooth. Yeah the rules change a bit, life goes on, some things escape even the most careful testing.

You can't fix problems effectively by throwing more cards and upgrades at them, bandaid solutions only create more problems down the line, eventually, or limit design space.

49 minutes ago, Darthain said:

Same FFG just needs to stop being so damned afraid to errata. Games of this nature grow and occasionally need revision to keep them on track, as well as keep the design space expanding, it is normal. I mean X wing finally got something at least, but from what I understand it was a bit long in the tooth. Yeah the rules change a bit, life goes on, some things escape even the most careful testing.

You can't fix problems effectively by throwing more cards and upgrades at them, bandaid solutions only create more problems down the line, eventually, or limit design space.

yup. One other game I play is made towards bigger gaming groups (well, it can be played from 3 to 8 players in a free for all brawl) and the dev made several erratas to the game 1 year after release. People were more than glad to pay 10$ to have the official errata cards and whatnot.

2 hours ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

I think you are being a little hyperbolic about this. No one has come close to this tone.

I dunno ninja, seems pretty close to me. And just how many different threads on activation advantage op are we to endure??? What was wrong with posting this in any of the other 20 threads on the front page discussing this very topic?! As many posters have hinted to these threads are ultimately toxic to the community. I know the author's intent is to save armada but these threads, along with the mentality that activation advantage is op, is helping to destroy the community, not help it.

Btw armada is booming here! Largely in part to dras and other players who choose not to focus on the negative, but rather to build community.

EXCELLENT NEWS FROM MY LOCAL COMMUNITY! i know its irrelevant for you guys, but i really want to share my joy! a store finaly decided to do something to support armada and we'll have a Regionals in a few weeks!!!!

41 minutes ago, SkyCake said:

I dunno ninja, seems pretty close to me. And just how many different threads on activation advantage op are we to endure??? What was wrong with posting this in any of the other 20 threads on the front page discussing this very topic?! As many posters have hinted to these threads are ultimately toxic to the community. I know the author's intent is to save armada but these threads, along with the mentality that activation advantage is op, is helping to destroy the community, not help it.

Btw armada is booming here! Largely in part to dras and other players who choose not to focus on the negative, but rather to build community.

Bleh.

I love the assumption that people that issues with a game aren't also trying to build their communities.

This is like the community equivalent of 'git gud'. Ah, you see the problem isn't with the game, it's with your community building efforts! You just need to try harder and your community will be booming in no time!

The reason these threads keep popping up is because people are seeing repeated issues impacting their communities and their ability to engage with Armada. The majority of it isn't really even for anyone in particular, but hoping that if the point is raised (and raised enough) that FFG will take notice and do something.

There's this really pervasive, and simplistic outlook around here at times regarding the game that's almost along the lines of 'if you don't have anything nice to say about Armada, don't say anything at all'.

People putting up these posts and threads understand that discussing these issues is having a negative impact on the game (because the negativity is off-putting), but they're backing on the fact that in the long run trying to push for a change to the negative game experience will reap better rewards for the Armada community than just not talking about it at all.

22 minutes ago, Captain Weather said:

Bleh.

I love the assumption that people that issues with a game aren't also trying to build their communities.

This is like the community equivalent of 'git gud'. Ah, you see the problem isn't with the game, it's with your community building efforts! You just need to try harder and your community will be booming in no time!

The reason these threads keep popping up is because people are seeing repeated issues impacting their communities and their ability to engage with Armada. The majority of it isn't really even for anyone in particular, but hoping that if the point is raised (and raised enough) that FFG will take notice and do something.

There's this really pervasive, and simplistic outlook around here at times regarding the game that's almost along the lines of 'if you don't have anything nice to say about Armada, don't say anything at all'.

People putting up these posts and threads understand that discussing these issues is having a negative impact on the game (because the negativity is off-putting), but they're backing on the fact that in the long run trying to push for a change to the negative game experience will reap better rewards for the Armada community than just not talking about it at all.

Was waiting for you, what took you so long

Except when itt and others like it you have people taking their time to write a post in a forum they never write in To say "see, this is why I can't play armada, because it's all reduced to an activation game, and if I don't play that game I'm screwed". In reality nothing could be further from the truth, but the reality of armada gets drowned out by posts like this. I know you and others like you are trying to help, but the damage these posts are causing isn't imagined, it's real.

I think of it in these terms. Armada is a very sweet, smart, beautiful woman, a 9/10, and your the guy lucky enough to be with her. Other guys are half envious that your with her, half wondering how you got to be so lucky. But for some reason 9/10 ain't good enough. You focus on that 1/10 that rubs you the wrong way. It becomes all you can see! And that inability to appreciate what's good, and the incessant need to focus on the negative blows the relationship up. In no time your at the bar amidst an endless sea of fives and sixes just hoping to get lucky.

So go ahead and be negative if you must, I think in this context it's out of place. If we were talking about a game that's a 6 I'd say let her rip. She ain't a six though mate, she's a 9 at least, and in my heart, she's a perfect 10

4 minutes ago, SkyCake said:

But for some reason 9/10 ain't good enough. You focus on that 1/10 that rubs you the wrong way.

We're not nitpicking something small with Armada. We're explaining and showing evidence for a fundamental flaw in the game which is slowly destroying it. It would be like if the 9/10 woman was a white supremacist, and everybody was like, "Yeah but she's still hot." Okay, fine, but maybe we should be concerned about more than her looks.

Hey Skycake. Just so you know, I got to 2nd place (missed first by a single tournament point) with only 4 activations.

I also looked at what was necessary to really push even harder, and I have to tell you, it's pretty discouraging. Basically, I had to immediately re-establish activation superiority to have a chance at winning. Activation superiority is effectively mandatory to win Armada, which is why after the first big attack the game snowballs towards whomever has the highest quality/quantity (and that's literally Quality divided by Quantity) activations left.

Just to throw in my two cents, Armada suffers from a couple core issues that prevent it from being a tight, varied, balanced competitive game. A huge factor is the lack of support from FFG. Waiting months on end just to get clarifications on how upgrades are supposed to work is ridiculous, and it suggests that we can basically forget about getting any erratas to the core rules or existing releases. Deep seated problems in the metagame probably aren't ever going to be addressed (and I would argue that something that causes a not insignificant portion of the competitive community to consider leaving is a problem, even if it's an aspect that I don't mind personally).

Another is the small number of releases and factions. In games with higher model counts and more factions, even the scariest of competitive boogymen will rarely be able to answer *everything,* but in Armada everyone has access to nearly identical toolboxes. If something is clearly top tier, you're gonna see a lot of it.

There's probably more i could say but I'm waking up in 7 hours to drive to a store championship

Ultimately I don't post in these threads because I think I can change your minds cactus, captain, wu, caldias. You've painted yourselves into a corner and you seem quite content in defending that decision in perpetuatum. But I do think it's worth posting for would-be armada players out there the alternative opinion. That armada is incredibly balanced, great fun to play, is good, and has never been better, has a stellar community, and if your thinking of getting in, DO IT!

5 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

A lot of us are still playing, and still want to play every game night. That said, the meta is making the game stale and frustrating for players who want to play more casually, because even in casual games the supreme advantage of the activation meta makes a lot of fleets nearly unplayable. When you factor in new players who are told that their first purchases should be 2-3 flotillas instead of the big iconic ships, that's a real issue for keeping the game going.

Thats one of the reasons I think they should have dropped the points of the HammerHead somewhere just a little above the Gozanti. HH has became way more iconic lately and Im sure people would have love to run 3 of those rather than 3 ... tranports.

6 hours ago, Reinholt said:

When was the last time the lord of tubs or Drunk Tarkin posted? It doesn't happen anymore.

Not to be funny, but when did either of them ever post much?

59 minutes ago, SkyCake said:

Ultimately I don't post in these threads because I think I can change your minds cactus, captain, wu, caldias. You've painted yourselves into a corner and you seem quite content in defending that decision in perpetuatum. But I do think it's worth posting for would-be armada players out there the alternative opinion. That armada is incredibly balanced, great fun to play, is good, and has never been better, has a stellar community, and if your thinking of getting in, DO IT!

Gah! I'm out of likes! FFG Must errata their forums to include more likes per day. . . .

. . . Not to belittle anyone's argument. . .

*collects soapbox* no offence but what a bunch of utter tripe and crap..... first off the game is super healthy... yes some builds are stronger than others but that's life and the same in ANY game when you build your own list, move on or go and play a board game because the qq'ing is just a little dull. Euros had 50+ players and I don't think I saw one list that was the same as another, unlike other games out there where the same list domains the game. Comparing tournament play to non competitive is also bull **** as if people are playing a relaxed game that's time to try different builds and see what new ticks and toys you can find, if your a person that has to always role out a maxed out competitive list to every game and win or the evening is a waste then Armada is not the problem look in a mirror and get some prospective....

Yes activations are strong at the moment but every wave we have seen big changes in the game and I'm sure that will continue.

I did terrible at euros but that was down to me, not the game design or other lists but how I played, but I learned new things in each game. I got to meet and chat to some cool people from a huge range of backgrounds which shows how healthy and the appeal this game has.

If you don't like the game Sale it and move on, the 24/7 complaining from a few people on this forum (know who you are) is counterproductive to this game and community.

In closing stop the childish complaining, I have 4 kids at home I play Armada to get away from that.

*returns soapbox*

I said it before and I will say it again... tournament play is not the ONLY way to play and is not the ONLY way you can make a list and play the game and even be competitive. You can quite easily win a game consistently with three activation it your goal is to NOT LOSE... you are not interested in tabling your opponent as you must to win a tournament. Your goal is to just claim the objective and either draw or win the game. As a competitive player you can make it your goal to not be beaten, that's it... it works.

If you play this way you can make your list in a multitude of ways... you are not forced to drive your ship into enemy firing range if you don't like to. Bring large number of anti-fighter power before bomber power to make sure you are never overwhelmed by enemy squadrons. First order of business is to NOT lose, second is to WIN. In reality you NEVER attack unless you are certain you will win and a stalemate is acceptable rather than loosing. If you approach the game with that mentality your lists and games can become a bit more engaging and fun.

Even in our "one off" games we allow people to hyperspace ships out of combat whenever they like to preserve their points. A ship that hyperspace out are simply not worth ANY victory points to the opponent but it leave you weaker on the table. This means that you plan your attack more carefully in a way so you can disengage if things don't go as you expected thus denying the opponent the price.

You need to have more fun and don't treat your game evening as competitions... I never understood why that is even a thing among friends.

Sure if you go to a tournament (or train for one) but then it is no longer Star Wars, it is just a game with numbers and you might as well remove the ships and run with cardboard chits. Now, I was a bit mean and don't imply you have no feelings for the Star Wars universe or anything like that. I just try to convey the thought that you don't have to treat the game as a competition whenever you play, what is the fun in that.

The game do have its problem with activation mechanic and I hope FFG look at that eventually, but in casual play you can fix it yourself, you don't need anyone's permission for house rules. Spice up the game environment a bit.