26 minutes ago, Odanan said:Looks like a toy for children. :/
Pretty sure the paintjob is the problem. If someone with actual painting skills does one that looks like real wood it will look much better...if he also mods the front gun to be more crisp.
5 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:Presumably those ships using Reinforce will be taking Commandos. That helps their offense, essentially providing half the value of a standard Target Lock action to every attack while also giving you a guaranteed evade result against each attack coming into their reinforced section.
If it's 4 ships, sure, they probably will. But it's still quite a bit worse than a target lock since it doesn't reroll blanks, and it's worse than a focus since it only has a 50% chance of turning an eyeball into a hit/crit. I'd still bet on the tie swarm
I think they're beautiful.
58 minutes ago, KineticOperator said:I'm going to take a moment to break my silence just this once to put my opinion in.
This ship is a terrible idea. Reinforce is, was, and will continue to be a bad idea at the 100 point scale. It's like Timmy designed this ship and just couldn't bring himself to stop, I haven't seen anything this obviously problematic since the pre-nerf Phantom. I could go into detail, but I'm sure others will/have/are doing so. If you don't build a list with a specific answer to the Auzituck (and God help you if you have 2 attack die ships), you are going to lose hard. Do the math. ONE of these ships built remotely logically has a very, very good chance of defeating an 8 TIE swarm single-handedly. The only saving grace, if you can call it that, is that most of the ships this thing erases completely from the meta were already nearly gone due to other (less) problematic ships.
I like finding powerful little interactions in otherwise balanced ships. I don't care for obviously OP crap like this. Offensive EPT+Reinforce+R2D2+C3PO. Takes about 2 seconds to find that combo, and it's stupidly powerful against anything it meets. FAR too powerful for its 30-40 point cost.
Maybe it's me, but all I'm seeing is a not-so-cheap ship which struggles to modify it's attack dice and will likely spend it's only action to reduce damage from attacks coming from one hemisphere by 1.375 on average. Which, granted, is a lot of reduction if there's a lot of mediocre attacks coming your way from one direction. A TIE swarm attempting a joust would certainly be at a disadvantage. The point is, a TIE swarm attempting to joust Auzituck is it's dream scenario. A TIE swarm player with the brains to adapt, split up and attack from 2 different directions would probably be in a much better spot, especially if he can get behind the Auzituck and take advantage of it's lack of k-turns.
Against anything but TIE swarms, reinforce is even less impressive. It's about the equivalent of shooting a 3 AGI ship that has no tokens and it still only works in one hemisphere. With a bit of decent flying all the reinforce can do is to delay the moment Auzituck is destroyed, which isn't all that helpful if it cannot destroy it's enemies first. Right now I'm not very impressed with the ship's ability to do that.
Just now, VanderLegion said:If it's 4 ships, sure, they probably will. But it's still quite a bit worse than a target lock since it doesn't reroll blanks, and it's worse than a focus since it only has a 50% chance of turning an eyeball into a hit/crit. I'd still bet on the tie swarm
I said it was worth about of a target lock. But it's also coming with the benefit of one guaranteed evade result against each attack, works when you've been blocked, and will work against whichever target you choose to attack.
A single reinforced Auzituck defending at R2 against eight focused TIE fighters will take an average of one point of damage (1.5 average hit results for each TIE - 1.375 average evade results = 0.125 average damage taken per attack). Meanwhile, they're averaging 1.875 hit/crit results on their own return shots, compared to 1.5 average results from an unfocused attack. Obviously this makes a lot of assumptions about range control and the approach, but the point remains that these things are going to be very, very defensive, which should go a long way towards helping them survive in a fight.
1 hour ago, KineticOperator said:I'm going to take a moment to break my silence just this once to put my opinion in.
This ship is a terrible idea. Reinforce is, was, and will continue to be a bad idea at the 100 point scale. It's like Timmy designed this ship and just couldn't bring himself to stop, I haven't seen anything this obviously problematic since the pre-nerf Phantom. I could go into detail, but I'm sure others will/have/are doing so. If you don't build a list with a specific answer to the Auzituck (and God help you if you have 2 attack die ships), you are going to lose hard. Do the math. ONE of these ships built remotely logically has a very, very good chance of defeating an 8 TIE swarm single-handedly. The only saving grace, if you can call it that, is that most of the ships this thing erases completely from the meta were already nearly gone due to other (less) problematic ships.
I like finding powerful little interactions in otherwise balanced ships. I don't care for obviously OP crap like this. Offensive EPT+Reinforce+R2D2+C3PO. Takes about 2 seconds to find that combo, and it's stupidly powerful against anything it meets. FAR too powerful for its 30-40 point cost.
I agree in part that reinforce is a very precarious addition, but I do believe this specific ship's limited dial will be its downfall. The swarm would struggle on the initial joust (if that is what they do), but after that, they would have superior positioning options for the remainder of the game you would have to think. If reinforce is given to a ship with a better dial though? I would be a good bit worried. I know a recent TC Open gave the Tie Advanced the reinforce action, and even Vader performed rather poorly in that tournament. But, then again, I doubt 2 attack ships did much there either (which the advanced is one of).
Either way, this much is sure- 2 attack ships need something.
1 hour ago, codegnave said:Shoot the other hull zone. If you have 8 TIE fighters then you need only split them up and come at it from multiple angles. Its a clear instance of power creep for sure, but I'm not sure its quite that apocalyptic.
You're talking to a guy who successfully jousted a TIE swarm (flown by Dallas?) with Echo and two Sigmas. I think he understands how they work.
8 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:I said it was worth about of a target lock. But it's also coming with the benefit of one guaranteed evade result against each attack, works when you've been blocked, and will work against whichever target you choose to attack.
A single reinforced Auzituck defending at R2 against eight focused TIE fighters will take an average of one point of damage (1.5 average hit results for each TIE - 1.375 average evade results = 0.125 average damage taken per attack). Meanwhile, they're averaging 1.875 hit/crit results on their own return shots, compared to 1.5 average results from an unfocused attack. Obviously this makes a lot of assumptions about range control and the approach, but the point remains that these things are going to be very, very defensive, which should go a long way towards helping them survive in a fight.
And on the second round, the tie swarm blocks the auzitucks, they don't have reinforce anymore becaues they got no action, and at least one explodes. And it probably won't be up against an 8 tie swarm. At the least, it'd probably be 7 + howlrunner which pushes the average damage per shot from the ties higher.
Here's an example of what KO is talking about:
| Wullfwarro — Auzituck Gunship | 30 |
| Lone Wolf | 2 |
| R2-D2 (Crew) | 4 |
| C-3PO | 3 |
| Engine Upgrade | 4 |
| Ship Total: 43 | |
| Miranda Doni — K-Wing | 29 |
| Twin Laser Turret | 6 |
| Extra Munitions | 2 |
| Sabine Wren | 2 |
| Cluster Mines | 4 |
| Cluster Mines | 4 |
| Seismic Charges | 2 |
| Advanced SLAM | 2 |
| Ship Total: 51 | |
The Auzituck is mostly a points fortress (Miranda is too but she also boasts some offense). Loadouts can be tweaked, but the idea is you have 2 very difficult to kill ships that can destroy a ship and then burn up the rest of the match time without dying or even giving up any MOV.
Super defensive ships aren't good for the game.
Edited by Transmogrifier
6 minutes ago, Kdubb said:I agree in part that reinforce is a very precarious addition, but I do believe this specific ship's limited dial will be its downfall. The swarm would struggle on the initial joust (if that is what they do), but after that, they would have superior positioning options for the remainder of the game you would have to think. If reinforce is given to a ship with a better dial though? I would be a good bit worried. I know a recent TC Open gave the Tie Advanced the reinforce action, and even Vader performed rather poorly in that tournament. But, then again, I doubt 2 attack ships did much there either (which the advanced is one of).
Either way, this much is sure- 2 attack ships need something.
I'll just solve this problem the usual way: send in Omega Leader! One green die, and thinks it can rely on a defensive dice modificaton? Those Wookiees are just adorable.
Wow, was not expecting that kind of dial, but I'll take it.
While maybe not the best competitive choice, I am looking forward to Wullff with PTL, Kanan, Kyle, and Targeting Computer or Vectored Thrusters for 41 points.
4 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:And on the second round, the tie swarm blocks the auzitucks, they don't have reinforce anymore becaues they got no action, and at least one explodes. And it probably won't be up against an 8 tie swarm. At the least, it'd probably be 7 + howlrunner which pushes the average damage per shot from the ties higher.
You're also only blocking me if you win the initiative roll and decide to go first. Otherwise, I'm blocking you and likely killing more TIEs.
Either way, the winner moves on to get killed by a Mindlinked Fenn list.
4 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:Here's an example of what KO is talking about:
Running Out The Clock ( 94 )
Wullfwarro — Auzituck Gunship 30 Lone Wolf 2 R2-D2 (Crew) 4 C-3PO 3 Engine Upgrade 4 Ship Total: 43 Miranda Doni — K-Wing 29 Twin Laser Turret 6 Extra Munitions 2 Sabine Wren 2 Cluster Mines 4 Cluster Mines 4 Seismic Charges 2 Advanced SLAM 2 Ship Total: 51
The Auzituck is mostly a points fortress ( Miranda is too but she also boasts some offense). Loadouts can be tweaked, but the idea is you have 2 very difficult to kill ships that can destroy a ship and then burn up the rest of the match time without dying or even giving up any MOV.
Super defensive ships aren't good for the game.
I'd rather see this than miranda/corran, or miranda + almost anything else. Sure, the auzituck is going to take a while to kill, but it's not overly scary either. Kill miranda first, then worry about the auzituck. If you don't lose more than 51 points before you kill miranda, you're probably in a decent spot.
Just now, VanderLegion said:I'd rather see this than miranda/corran, or miranda + almost anything else. Sure, the auzituck is going to take a while to kill, but it's not overly scary either. Kill miranda first, then worry about the auzituck. If you don't lose more than 51 points before you kill miranda, you're probably in a decent spot.
The issue is we have stacking defensive mods that tech against both kinds of damage - isolated high-powered shots (C-3PO, R2-D2) as well as numerous lower-powered shots (Reinforce, Lone Wolf)). So that leaves us with either being forced to bring overwhelmingly high powered attacks (Fenn Rau) or high accuracy, high volume fire (TLT spam). These sort of super defensive builds are what drives the meta towards the builds people are already tired of.
7 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:I'd rather see this than miranda/corran, or miranda + almost anything else. Sure, the auzituck is going to take a while to kill, but it's not overly scary either. Kill miranda first, then worry about the auzituck. If you don't lose more than 51 points before you kill miranda, you're probably in a decent spot.
That Auzituck is gonna be a mean endgame ship. Wulf turns into a 4 primary ship in the endgame. While regening. It will regen a shield, have reinforce + C3PO. If you manage to do 1 damage, take its only shield away, then turn on its 4 dice primary. Wulf is gonna see lots of table time and be a force.
1 hour ago, Odanan said:Looks like a toy for children. :/
We are children. Just with an age range of 20-50+.
1 hour ago, BlodVargarna said:Definitely NOT a toy for a grown a$$ man.
Says the dude spending cash so he can pew pew pew
28 minutes ago, wurms said:That Auzituck is gonna be a mean endgame ship. Wulf turns into a 4 primary ship in the endgame. While regening. It will regen a shield, have reinforce + C3PO. If you manage to do 1 damage, take its only shield away, then turn on its 4 dice primary. Wulf is gonna see lots of table time and be a force.
In that list, Miranda is the easy target for the early game, meaning she'll get focused down fast. The Auzituck isn't going to be doing any more damage than a single B-wing, so it's easy to ignore. Which means that the Auzituck is most likely going to be facing 2 or more decently kitted ships or 1 decked-out ship. In either case, its odds aren't great. It can only mitigate 2 damage through reinforce and C3PO by giving up its focus, meaning its offense is going to suffer tremendously.
You could compare him to Soontir, seeing that ol' Fel is another ship who only throws 3 dice with focus. However, he doesn't have to give up the offensice focus to have a good defense, and his repositioning keeps him alive as much as his ability to token up.
I may be underestimating this thing, but I've flown enough 3-red imperial ships with only a focus to mod their attacks to say that the damage is not consistent. I think it's a fine ship for certain roles, but I doubt the endgame is where it will shine.
Edited by hargleblargUnderwhelmed. I was planning on picking up one of each of this wave; but I can't see myself ever really finding a place for this thing outside the odd "curiosity list." Might save my cash.
If the weakness is someone getting behind the Auzi to punish it via YV-666 strategy, I have two words for you; Sabine Wren.
I'm fascinated by Wookie Commandos on a TLT Ghost-title VCX. The dice mods amount to essentially half a focus token per attack, which isn't very good on one attack, but with a TLT throwing four attacks per turn, it adds up. Lothal Rebel at 35 + TLT 6 + WC 1= 42 points, which is relatively cheap, with an open Systems slot (Reinforced Deflectors?). The Wookies mean your offensive actions are worse, so you'll probably Evade. I played it by proxy a few times and it felt strong.
Biggest problem seems to be one of what else to put into the squad. With Zeb and a baseline Lothal, that's 60 points before filling the systems slot, but I can't think of a great way to spend the 40 points in the list. Poe is outdated in the current meta. Norra is a maybe, I haven't had enough practice with her. There aren't enough points for any Corran; or for a loaded Miranda, but TLT and choice of crew might be ok. Maybe a well-filled Auzituck would be suit (Wullffwarro with Rey+3p0+Lone Wolf at 37pts), or a Warden with Sabine and Bombs. You could fit a 26pt Biggs + Rex, but I don't think that'd be better than just running Kannan/Biggs, and then you'd probably be better off with the traditional crew and systems choices. There's the option of more upgrades for the shuttle, but that seems like it'd almost always be a bad plan.
The biggest virtue of the Wookie Commandos Ghost is that it's a lot cheaper than other crew/system options for a title-and-turret VCX, but if you can't fill those points productively, that won't matter. Maybe upgrading the pilots would work. Hera with Advanced Sensors and Engine Upgrade seems kinda spiffy, with 28 points for the 3rd ship.
None of the above really speak to me, but I'm still intrigued with the basic loadout.
5 minutes ago, Cloaker said:If the weakness is someone getting behind the Auzi to punish it via YV-666 strategy, I have two words for you; Sabine Wren.
It's also not going to be precisely like the YV-666. The fact that it's a small-based ship will allow it to move much slower than the YV, especially if it takes Vectored Thusters. A weaving 1-bank/barrel roll pattern should allow it to move very slow while providing massive arc coverage.
3 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:It's also not going to be precisely like the YV-666. The fact that it's a small-based ship will allow it to move much slower than the YV, especially if it takes Vectored Thusters. A weaving 1-bank/barrel roll pattern should allow it to move very slow while providing massive arc coverage.
This, combined with the 3 primary 180 arc/ "I bomb you behind me" is going to be nasty. tractor beams might mess with it, but who uses those anymore? HARD ZUCKUSS MIST HUNTER COUNTER
9 minutes ago, Cloaker said:This, combined with the 3 primary 180 arc/ "I bomb you behind me" is going to be nasty. tractor beams might mess with it, but who uses those anymore? HARD ZUCKUSS MIST HUNTER COUNTER
Ketsu is going to fong it pretty hard tbh. Like rocks, you'll love these ones.
I...
I really hate this ship.
It does not deserve to fly with X-Wings, ARC-170s, or even TIE Aggressors. It has appeared in
one
episode of Rebels, it has never even fired a shot, we have
never even
seen IT FLY.
This is not an iconic, beloved ship of
ANYBODY'S.
There are no Auzituck gunship fans. There never have been. There will be thanks to this, but this craft has not at
all
earned the place it is trying to take.
Not only that, but the model and paintjob looks awful. I could hardly tell whether or not those forward guns were pipes
or guns.
I still don't even really know! And what justifies its three attack and 180 arc? You know what this
thing is?
It's a poor man's LAAT/i.
