OK so. Thanks to Jek (happy birthday) we have seen some new cards, and the combo im most interested in is the dispatch runner with cursed signet.

Right now the easiest way I can see of running this combo is with 2 groups of reanimates.

The first group is your attackers. You're running this as a big formation (4x3), possibly with ardus or some other upgrades to keep damage and defenses high. Im not going to focus on that though. My main priority is that this unit has cursed signets. For those of you that havent seen the picture, cursed signet is a 2 cost heraldry upgrade that makes you take a damage instead of a bane (everytime you would be assigned a bane).

The second group is your cheerleaders. You can put something with the banner that attracts attention or something in this group, but you need it to have a champion slot (so at minimum has to be a 3x2 formation, or a 2x2 if ardus is running around somewhere in your list). This group is where you put your dispatch runner.

Basic strategy is this: At 4 initiative, your attackers attack. They can mod it with morale or whatever. If its a 4x3 formation, theyre expected to do some decent damage. Then, also at initiative 4, you rally (first turn this does nothing), then use the special ability of the cheerleader reanimates. Using dispatch runner lets your attacker formation attack a second time. They then take 1 damage instead of a stun token. The dispatch runner goes exhausted, but next turn after the attackers attack, the rally will ready dispatch runner, just in time for you to use it again on your modifier dial.

I havent really planned a list around this yet, but I think it could definitely have some merit, Im curious to see what people think of it.

Cheers

Cowbell

It is a wound not a damage.

Either way. Theyre reanimates...

Last few games I've run Dispatch Runner behind a Reanimate 4x3 block.

I simply do not see the utility of the cursed signet in this list. Stun is not a big deal at all. I had a stack of stun tokens by the end and it didn't make a lick of difference.

I'd much rather combo File Leader and Raven Standard to make the big block a charge receiver that can double strike on 3 and 4.

That's just me, though. Considering that unit only survived the last game by one reanimate, i would have lost like 12 pts in upgrades if I had run something like cursed signets.

Banes suck, sure, but losing models is strictly worse in most cases, and signets even deals WOUNDS so, the more expensive the unit the worse the return.

Yeah wounds are worse than damage because it bypasses your defence.

Ok, my issue was i got stun and immobilize mixed up. It makes a waaaay bigger difference if you mess that up

All that said... dispatch runner IS a lot of fun.

Build a list and run it, it might turn out killer. Might as well try em all.

if it said May then it would be a brutal card. Issue with it is most of the banes are kinda moot, Stun can be a thorn if you arent already engaged as your opponent can block your Charge mod (or turn/wheel) but if youre engaged, whooptidoo... Immobilize and Blight on the other hand are a big problem, i'd gladly take a wound over getting those.

If you are engaged, immobile only works on marches and shifts right? So immobilize only stops an attempt to disengage. I find immobilize and stuns are good on units before they engage and after they've finished off the unit they were engaged with.

9 hours ago, Tvayumat said:

Banes suck, sure, but losing models is strictly worse in most cases, and signets even deals WOUNDS so, the more expensive defensive the unit the worse the return.

I think you nailed it. Most situations, we need our units to maintain physical strength and integrity. I think people who are looking forward to this upgrade are thinking about all the times it's helpful, and not think about the downsides. If you have a stack of 6 banes, you're probably going to rally. With Cursed Signets, hey, you don't have to waste a turn on rally, but you're down a tray and a half.

That's why I think units that can regenerate will get the most out of it. It's still a cost, and you might rather heal from attack damage than adding on bane damage. But I think it's worth trying out.

I want to add that in my one game, Raven Standard Bearer was huge, so I agree there is stiff competition for that Heraldry slot.

Regeneration definitely makes it a smaller penalty on reanimates

23 minutes ago, Ywingscum said:

Regeneration definitely makes it a smaller penalty on reanimates

Plus lingering dead.

See, for me the only time I'd rather have the bane is with stun on reanimates. Panic sucks on reanimates because it's basically the only route to getting big morale tests. Blight cripples you. Immobilize is situationally bad. It doesn't matter much yet, but when elves come out and every faction has archers (which can sev-1 immobilize) then immobilize will suck a lot more. I think that cursed signets is a good option in any deathstar unit.

However, the real reason not to take in my opinion is not the damage, but the fact that you could have had another banner upgrade. Terrifying Heraldry and Blighted Vexilium Banner and Raven standards are all very strong competitors. So, imho, if cursed signets isn't used it won't be because they're objectively terrible but rather because other options become essential. That's just my take on it though. Obviously it'll take some games to actually get a straight answer.

3 hours ago, Ywingscum said:

If you are engaged, immobile only works on marches and shifts right? So immobilize only stops an attempt to disengage. I find immobilize and stuns are good on units before they engage and after they've finished off the unit they were engaged with.

Correct, but thats why you simply play into it. (i want to say it works on reform too but dont have the rules on hand)

If my Spearmen are locked with your Reanimates and i have Crossbowmen around, im just going to Shift away and disengage rather than fire into combat. You waste a minimum of 2 turns because you whiffed an attack against nothing (Banner that lets me activate 1init faster and i have the initiative so i go before your attack) and regardless of if you rally or attempt to reengage you are stuck the next turn doing nothing while i shoot you down. To top it off i can then play mind games with you, do i charge before you can charge me, wasting your charge, or do i delay myself expecting you to dial in an attack for when i charge?

In a less-mindgamy way, if you have an immobilize and wipe a unit out you are still wasting a turn of just sitting there with your deathstar rather than moving onto the next victim. With only 8 turns, even 1 being robbed from you is huge.

Cursed Signets seem like they'd be really strong with Lingering Dead, Necromancer, and Ankaur Maru around.

What there hasn't been discussion much is its utility in mirror matches. I've only played Waiqar but my friend who plays Daqan does everything he can to dump blight. If you are facing Waiqar I'd expect it would not be such a high price to pay simply so you can roll damage dice.

I also suspect that the unseen faction will have a heavy bane producing mechanism.

Maybe Cursed Signets will turn out to be amazing in some particular scenario, but...

My fundamental issue is simple. Outside of very particular circumstances, wounds are categorically worse than banes.

Yes, banes can be problematic, exposing you to unit abilities, attacks, or hindering your own damage dealing ability.... sometimes. Sometimes, they're nothing. Sometimes it's an immobilize or a stun when you don't care.

Cursed Signets makes those situations worse. It's not a choice. It's not a MAY take a wound card, it just straight up turns banes into wounds.

Wounds lose you the game. Banes don't. I'll keep my banes.

2 hours ago, Tvayumat said:

Maybe Cursed Signets will turn out to be amazing in some particular scenario, but...

My fundamental issue is simple. Outside of very particular circumstances, wounds are categorically worse than banes.

Yes, banes can be problematic, exposing you to unit abilities, attacks, or hindering your own damage dealing ability.... sometimes. Sometimes, they're nothing. Sometimes it's an immobilize or a stun when you don't care.

Cursed Signets makes those situations worse. It's not a choice. It's not a MAY take a wound card, it just straight up turns banes into wounds.

Wounds lose you the game. Banes don't. I'll keep my banes.

Totally agree when it comes to Daqan. If it was a case of MY then it would be awesome. Being able to switch blight to wounds in order to ensure an attack has full dice when needed would be invaluable; but with the way it is, taking all the wounds you would on the turns moving into combat range, makes it dreadful for Daqan.

However, if your opponent is playing Daqan and you are playing Waiqar then it isn't a bad card.

Only the Cavalry and the Rune Golem give banes (without upgrades). For Cavalry it's only 1 on a charge and for the Golems you have to be a) engaged and b) forgo an attack.

This combined with the ability to bring back destroyed reanimates (through Necromancers, Regenerate, etc) mean that the benefits of Cursed Signets can easily outweigh the negatives IMO.

I'd also like to point out:

Panic tokens are banes.

That's a whole lot of wounds. Rising panic will kill two models, or a whole rune golem.

25 minutes ago, Tvayumat said:

I'd also like to point out:

Panic tokens are banes.

That's a whole lot of wounds. Rising panic will kill two models, or a whole rune golem.

Yes Panic tokens are Banes but any panic tokens you receive before a morale test will have been taken as wounds. As a result any Morale test you have to take will likely only be level 1 (unless you hit dreadful odds and the opponent rolls more than 1 morale result on the attack dice).

There are 30 morale cards 10 cause 1 bane and 5 cause 2 banes. The expected wounds from each level 1 Morale test therefore is only 2/3 or in otherwords a 66.7% chance of a wound. On Reanimates with Regenerate, Necromancer and Ankaur Maro in your army that is negligible. Plus it significantly reduces the possibilities of Level 2 or Level 3 Morale tests the results of which are much more drastic.

With regard to the whole Rune Golem comment, true but who in their right minds would put this banner on a Rune Golem unit. So that point is a bit moot.

...Or youre fighting Reanimates with their morale modifier, or any number of future units or upgrades that may manipulate morale tests.

From the perspective of the opposing player, I would be thrilled if some enemy unit opted to try and reduce morale results by killing his own models.

Wounds lose games, and all the regeneration in the game isn't enough to make this seem like a good trade to me, particularly when the opportunity cost is so high for the heraldry slot.

I prefer not to play mirror matches (casual play only at the moment). Plus I did state when you are Waiqar playing Daqan it can be good, I'm not advocating it for every situation.

8 hours ago, stet2 said:

I prefer not to play mirror matches (casual play only at the moment). Plus I did state when you are Waiqar playing Daqan it can be good, I'm not advocating it for every situation.

I don't disagree with the maybe of the whole thing, I just have my doubts.

Maybe someone will prove me wrong.