7 hours ago, cielago said:

i guess honor running decks wouldn't run it? maybe? but everyone else will put in as many copies as possible.

Wouldn't honor runners bid low though for the honor they will receive if their opponents outbid them?

And with duelling, using the same mechanic..I'm pretty sure Crane will find a way to fit it in just for the extra turn of the Storyteller or Asami, best case, Hotaru.

Hmm, a small advantage, at cost of 1 card only, but not consistently playable. Maybe, say, 3/4 of the time, as you'll bid lower when you have this card in hand.

I think it's a decent and balanced card, but I'm not seeing it as an autoinclude. Every card you run means leaving another card out, and the effect here just doesn't feel very impactful.

My thought is that good economy cards come in two sorts.

Either they give a small repeatable advantage (Llanowar Elf).

Or they give a one-off surge advantage (Dark Ritual).

A small one-off advantage isn't going to be worth running in most constructible games, generally, especially when the advantage doesn't increase tempo in any way, which tends to be the primary function of economy cards.

Rather, a card that increases durability, has a condition window, and which trades cards for board advantage: well that says "control deck" all over. I see this being a good card in certain decks that work around lynchpin characters and need time to work. And that, I think, will not be most decks.

A copy of a unique character generates the same effect unconditionally...

Maybe the scorpion can use the omens more often... but the effect is not so impressive anyway.

8 hours ago, Shu2jack said:

We'll have to see more cards....but I would rather just do a better job planning out my plays and have a conflict card in my hand that can turn the tide of battle.

I dunno...I feel like converting card advantage to economic advantage is the bedrock of a lot of fantastically designed cards in other games. Especially in a game where you only get 7 fate per turn.

People are talking about the economic advantage of passing dynasty phase first or using rings just for the additional fate.

And what's a better way of turning the tide of battle than getting your clan champion for an additional turn?

2 hours ago, Prepare for War said:

My thought is that good economy cards come in two sorts.

Either they give a small repeatable advantage (Llanowar Elf).

Or they give a one-off surge advantage (Dark Ritual).

A small one-off advantage isn't going to be worth running in most constructible games, generally, especially when the advantage doesn't increase tempo in any way, which tends to be the primary function of economy cards.

Rather, a card that increases durability, has a condition window, and which trades cards for board advantage: well that says "control deck" all over. I see this being a good card in certain decks that work around lynchpin characters and need time to work. And that, I think, will not be most decks.

Agreed that this isnt auto-include but as I think that Crane/Phoenix Honor and Scorpion Dishonor will get great mileage out of this.

I'm on the opposite that this is more Dark Ritual than Llanowar. If you pull this off, its at least equivalent to 4 fate (1 for current turn/ 3 for the next) and a more stable board control for the next turn. And I don't see why this does not generate tempo for your next turn.

add to this, the possibility of negating Void and preventing Water and the card increases its value even further and from experience its usually one misplay/miscalculations that let me squeak out a win when i play control.

2 hours ago, Koriume said:

A copy of a unique character generates the same effect unconditionally...

Maybe the scorpion can use the omens more often... but the effect is not so impressive anyway.

Maybe so, but a dupe is very telegraph than this one is and can be accounted for easily by your opponent

this is a conditional One Koku for the LCG

Sure opponent can underbid or bid same as me,but for a control player that means my opponent isnt maximizing his potential to draw cards and it's less problem for me to account for.

As was stated elsewhere on another thread by someone smarter than me, 1 fate on a character DOUBLES the value of a character. Paying for the character with no additional fate gives you one turn. Each additional fate grants you an additional turn to use that character. A 5 cost character essentially becomes a 10 cost character that you only paid 6 for if you only put 1 additional fate. Good Omen doubles your value for free.

I like that this is an economy card that has a clear usefulness but also is conditional and limited enough that it is not an auto include. Seems pretty balanced.

15 minutes ago, HirumaShigure said:

As was stated elsewhere on another thread by someone smarter than me, 1 fate on a character DOUBLES the value of a character. Paying for the character with no additional fate gives you one turn. Each additional fate grants you an additional turn to use that character. A 5 cost character essentially becomes a 10 cost character that you only paid 6 for if you only put 1 additional fate. Good Omen doubles your value for free.

I wouldnt say for free, I would say for the cost of one card under a condition implying you drawing less cards then your opponent

So I'd think a balanced card !

3 hours ago, Prepare for War said:

My thought is that good economy cards come in two sorts.

Either they give a small repeatable advantage (Llanowar Elf).

Or they give a one-off surge advantage (Dark Ritual).

You have some very good analysis in this post, but I want to point out that it's based around a ramp economy, i.e. you start with 0 resources but get linearly more as the game goes on, and your first example causes an exponential increase.

This economy will be static. You will get 7 a turn, and they have stated there won't be any "+1 fate per turn" llanowar elves, so price reductions (ala city of lies) and things that add bonus fate to characters is likely as good as we'll get. So if you want to play economy, you play this.

That said, if they go back on the "no +1 fate cards" thing, then I think your points definitely seem a lot more accurate.

28 minutes ago, Eugene Earnshaw said:

I like that this is an economy card that has a clear usefulness but also is conditional and limited enough that it is not an auto include. Seems pretty balanced.

I slightly disagree here.

For some decks this will be an auto include for a good while. At least until a more easily played card is released. (we still haven't seen all of the cards in the Core yet....)

I knew One Koku.

One Koku was a friend of mine.

You, sir, are no One Koku.

8 hours ago, shineyorkboy said:

Does the fate come from your personal pool or from the bank?

Compare to Togashi Initiate. It is pretty clear to me that Good Omen Takes from the bank.

In this case the card would be pretty awesome.

57 minutes ago, LordBlunt said:

I slightly disagree here.

For some decks this will be an auto include for a good while. At least until a more easily played card is released. (we still haven't seen all of the cards in the Core yet....)

Well, it's hard to know without seeing the rest of the cards, but I would think twice before I put it in any deck even going by what is out now.

3 hours ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

I dunno...I feel like converting card advantage to economic advantage is the bedrock of a lot of fantastically designed cards in other games. Especially in a game where you only get 7 fate per turn.

People are talking about the economic advantage of passing dynasty phase first or using rings just for the additional fate.

And what's a better way of turning the tide of battle than getting your clan champion for an additional turn?

Being able to bow or send their champion home so you crush their province.

Personally, I think this sounds like a great card. Not only could it help a high-cost character stick around another turn, but the condition itself may mess with your opponent's head.

For instance, if you have your Clan Champion out, presumably going away at the end of this turn, just the knowledge this card exists may tempt me to bid low on my dial (for card draw or for dueling), just to ensure that this card isn't played.

Obviously, this is highly dependent on what cards we have in our hands and in play, but I anticipate that this card will be surprisingly irritating for people who dismiss it completely.

We cannot accurately judge the value of cards like this until we know how the meta will shape honor card drawing. Since we are getting new dynasty cards every turn, there will be turns that have high value dynasty cards that need to be played(like clan champions, because if your opponent breaks the province you will need to discard your unplayed chamion eot) and thus limit the need to draw heavy from the conflict deck since you will have limited fate. On the other hand if your dynasty cards reveal 2 holdings for example while the opponent has a strong board presence, you will be forced to draw conflict cards in the hopes of avoiding a double province loss.

1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

Personally, I think this sounds like a great card. Not only could it help a high-cost character stick around another turn, but the condition itself may mess with your opponent's head.

For instance, if you have your Clan Champion out, presumably going away at the end of this turn, just the knowledge this card exists may tempt me to bid low on my dial (for card draw or for dueling), just to ensure that this card isn't played.

Obviously, this is highly dependent on what cards we have in our hands and in play, but I anticipate that this card will be surprisingly irritating for people who dismiss it completely.

Good thoughts, and I like that the sort of head games you're talking about make the game's decisions more complex. Frequent complex and meaningful decisions are what allow LCGs to reward skilled play, and in my mind, what makes for a fun game experience.

2 hours ago, profparm said:

This economy will be static. You will get 7 a turn, and they have stated there won't be any "+1 fate per turn" llanowar elves, so price reductions (ala city of lies) and things that add bonus fate to characters is likely as good as we'll get. So if you want to play economy, you play this

That's interesting! I'd not seen that comment about there not being any llanowar-elf type economy in this game. That does change things for sure.

I suppose my expectations had been set by previous LCGs, almost all of which have chump characters / cheap permanents with +1 Thing as a permanent economy effect printed on them.

It'll be a refreshing change to deckbuilding to not have these "auto-include economy cards" purposefully left out of the card pool.

The struggle for me with this card is that while it does give you a great effect (seemingly free fate production in a game where fate production is mostly flat) it does have an actual cost to it. Being a conflict card is a bigger deal than I think some people may realize. Conflict cards are going to be your primary way to turn the balance of conflicts into your favor. Having a card in your conflict deck that essentially does nothing to impact conflict can be a liability. If you want this card to do anything for you it's going to be better to see it in the early to mid game, which means you would want more copies of it in the deck to increase you chances of seeing this earlier. However, drawing this card during a game ending situation isn't going to help you at all.

Now some might question why I'm somewhat down on this card but much higher on a card like Way of the Unicorn. There are a couple reasons for this. WotU changes the order of play which could be very important if both players are close to winning and who gets to resolve a battle first is going to decide the winner. Also the option to pass dynasty first and gain the extra fate and/or declare the first conflict and choose a ring with fate on it, the extra fate goes to your fate pool. This fate can now be used for a variety of things instead of just being placed on a specific character. The potential gains of WotU are far greater than that of Good Omen.

Had this card just added fate to your fate pool, I would equate it to 1 koku as others have done, and I would consider it to be much better than what it is now. But that's not the case. What could save this card is if there are more characters printed with abilities that can use the fate on them for different effects, I.e. Wandering Ronin. As it stands now, I don't feel this card it anything special.

5 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

The struggle for me with this card is that while it does give you a great effect (seemingly free fate production in a game where fate production is mostly flat) it does have an actual cost to it. Being a conflict card is a bigger deal than I think some people may realize. Conflict cards are going to be your primary way to turn the balance of conflicts into your favor. Having a card in your conflict deck that essentially does nothing to impact conflict can be a liability. If you want this card to do anything for you it's going to be better to see it in the early to mid game, which means you would want more copies of it in the deck to increase you chances of seeing this earlier. However, drawing this card during a game ending situation isn't going to help you at all.

Now some might question why I'm somewhat down on this card but much higher on a card like Way of the Unicorn. There are a couple reasons for this. WotU changes the order of play which could be very important if both players are close to winning and who gets to resolve a battle first is going to decide the winner. Also the option to pass dynasty first and gain the extra fate and/or declare the first conflict and choose a ring with fate on it, the extra fate goes to your fate pool. This fate can now be used for a variety of things instead of just being placed on a specific character. The potential gains of WotU are far greater than that of Good Omen.

Had this card just added fate to your fate pool, I would equate it to 1 koku as others have done, and I would consider it to be much better than what it is now. But that's not the case. What could save this card is if there are more characters printed with abilities that can use the fate on them for different effects, I.e. Wandering Ronin. As it stands now, I don't feel this card it anything special.

Isn't Way of the Unicorn limited to just 1 clan, where as this card isn't? Good Omen is more about tempo or board advantage, where Way of the Unicorn is about priority/first player advantage.

2 hours ago, Kubernes said:

Isn't Way of the Unicorn limited to just 1 clan, where as this card isn't? Good Omen is more about tempo or board advantage, where Way of the Unicorn is about priority/first player advantage.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at here. I never said anything to the contrary in my post. I only pointed out that WotU and Good Omen are both conflict cards that do nothing to impact a conflict. One I consider to be much better than the other. I don't have to cram 3 copies of WotU my deck. I can put 1 - 2 in there and look for the right moment to capitalize on the benefits of priority. Good Omen is a little more narrow about when it will be good but it requires you to put more copies in to make sure you have a copy of it when the opportunity comes up. It could also lead you into making bad deck choices like flooding your deck with too many high fate personalities to target. Not to mention if you are trying to draw into Good Omen, you are likely bidding higher to get to it and potentially putting youself in a position where you can't play it when you want to.

2 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

I'm not really sure what you're getting at here. I never said anything to the contrary in my post. I only pointed out that WotU and Good Omen are both conflict cards that do nothing to impact a conflict. One I consider to be much better than the other. I don't have to cram 3 copies of WotU my deck. I can put 1 - 2 in there and look for the right moment to capitalize on the benefits of priority. Good Omen is a little more narrow about when it will be good but it requires you to put more copies in to make sure you have a copy of it when the opportunity comes up. It could also lead you into making bad deck choices like flooding your deck with too many high fate personalities to target. Not to mention if you are trying to draw into Good Omen, you are likely bidding higher to get to it and potentially putting youself in a position where you can't play it when you want to.

That's not exactly true that Good Omen couldn't impact a conflict. Wandering Ronin! He always pops up. Aside from him, there's possibly messing with an opponent's 'reward' from a Water or Void conflict. But's that's about it right now with the revealed cards.

A fact that I pointed out in my original post

5 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

A fact that I pointed out in my original post

Yeah, but also, had you considered how much stronger it would be if there are more characters printed with abilities that can use the fate on them for different effects, i.e. Wandering Ronin?

Also, don't forget Wandering Ronin.

Oh, and Wandering Ronin.