1 hour ago, DaverWattra said:

How about this: I'll make an Ebb/Flow-based build, and you can do whatever lightsaber combat build you want, Ebb/Flow or not. I'm interested to see how two Ebb/Flow characters face off against each other, but I'm equally interested to see how it works against other builds. I agree to your terms vis a vis the credits and XP. Looking forward to it

Deal! I'll have something up within the next 24 hrs. Maybe someone would like to build an arena or some sort of setting appropriate for such a battle royale? Wink wink, nudge nudge.

3 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

It can come up with Heal pretty frequently at FR1. If the character doesn't get an LS pips, no healing takes place but the power was still used so it counts against the 5-use limit of Heal & Stimpacks the target can benefit from in a day.

Yes, that too!

2 hours ago, DaverWattra said:

How about this: I'll make an Ebb/Flow-based build, and you can do whatever lightsaber combat build you want, Ebb/Flow or not. I'm interested to see how two Ebb/Flow characters face off against each other, but I'm equally interested to see how it works against other builds. I agree to your terms vis a vis the credits and XP. Looking forward to it

Also: it being "double-knight level," I would presume that skill ranks cap at 4. What say you?

4 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

It can come up with Heal pretty frequently at FR1. If the character doesn't get an LS pips, no healing takes place but the power was still used so it counts against the 5-use limit of Heal & Stimpacks the target can benefit from in a day.

that 5 use limit is only for stimpacks other forms of healing have their own limitations. Force healing less so. Medicine is one attempt per encounter.

If you read the full Heal description it outlines that each use counts as a use of a Stimpack

26 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

If you read the full Heal description it outlines that each use counts as a use of a Stimpack

thanks didnt catch that and handy to know. Still doesnt affect other healing though.

@DaverWattra @awayputurwpn

For selfish reasons can I convince you to try this at 500 earned xp 5000cr?

16 minutes ago, TheShard said:

@DaverWattra @awayputurwpn

For selfish reasons can I convince you to try this at 500 earned xp 5000cr?

Lol I like that idea, but that gets well into Signature Ability terrain, which might upset encounters with how powerful they can be. The main goal of this exercise seems to be how Ebb/Flow holds up in combat and I wouldn't want to muddy the waters with powerful signature abilities.

I'd be game for the increased XP, but maybe we could do it as a side challenge?

I could see this becoming a regular thing... perhaps a fighting league of sorts. Different brackets have different rules (starting xp, 150xp, 300xp, 500xp) knockout style events to find a grand champion, royal rumble at the end. All in the name of fun.

16 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

Also: it being "double-knight level," I would presume that skill ranks cap at 4. What say you?

Fine with me! Couple of further things we should settle on:

-Does the Defensive weapon quality stack with defense from armor? (I usually play that it does, but I'm glad to play the other way)

-How are we handling lightsaber crystal mods? (My preference would be to leave them out entirely, but I'm flexible)

-Should we have a GM/referee?

Also: Will we use Vigilance or Cool for initiative? What range band should we start at? (I have no preference about either.)

Yes because this is a narrative game GM selection is almost as important as build.

7 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

Lol I like that idea, but that gets well into Signature Ability terrain, which might upset encounters with how powerful they can be. The main goal of this exercise seems to be how Ebb/Flow holds up in combat and I wouldn't want to muddy the waters with powerful signature abilities.

I'd be game for the increased XP, but maybe we could do it as a side challenge?

I'm not sure I have the spare time to do this twice ATM, but if you want to do 500 XP I'd be happy to try that. We could stipulate that no signature abilities are allowed. Either way, 300 or 500 are both fine for me.

9 hours ago, DaverWattra said:

Fine with me! Couple of further things we should settle on:

-Does the Defensive weapon quality stack with defense from armor? (I usually play that it does, but I'm glad to play the other way)

-How are we handling lightsaber crystal mods? (My preference would be to leave them out entirely, but I'm flexible)

-Should we have a GM/referee?

9 hours ago, DaverWattra said:

Also: Will we use Vigilance or Cool for initiative? What range band should we start at? (I have no preference about either.)

Yeah...I would think we'd need a third party to play GM, especially to handle these questions and to set the scene, and Cool vs. Vigilance, etc.

For armor defense & Defensive quality, I don't allow them to stack (I just go with OggDude's generator, since I use it for my gaming groups...keeps it simple for me). But I do allow cover to stack with armor for ranged defense. I'm good either way as well...would be happy for someone to step up as GM and make the call

And yes, we could just leave attachment mods out in general. Not a big deal to me.

Oh hey @DaverWattra one more question: shall we play dark vs. light characters? I have two different PCs and am eager to play either (almost done with them)

Nice. Yeah, dark side vs light side sounds like it would be the most fun. The character I made is a light sider. (Mine is ready at this point.)

I get the feeling from your post count you're more of an old hand around here than I... do you know someone who we could tap to GM?

Seems like the most fair thing to do with initiative might be to just choose which one to use randomly at the start of the fight.

Agreed re the defensive quality and attachment mods.

5 hours ago, DaverWattra said:

Nice. Yeah, dark side vs light side sounds like it would be the most fun. The character I made is a light sider. (Mine is ready at this point.)

I get the feeling from your post count you're more of an old hand around here than I... do you know someone who we could tap to GM?

Seems like the most fair thing to do with initiative might be to just choose which one to use randomly at the start of the fight.

Agreed re the defensive quality and attachment mods.

I'm still decided between three builds, lol. But should have mine done today.

Regarding Destiny Points: You spend light points, I spend dark points?

Hey @kaosoe or @Blackbird888 , how would one of you feel about GMing a 1v1, player vs. player, PbP duel? The job description would be scene setting & rules arbitration, and also probably Threat/Despair spending (unless of course we had abilities that directly interacted with Threat, like Improved Parry or somesuch).

On 6/18/2017 at 7:07 PM, Garran said:

By the time the force user catches up to that the non-force guy would have something else(s) they're fully specialized in and you're talking about game-breaking XP totals anyway.

Having played games with XP totals into some rather shocking numbers — more than 3 trees fully completed, and 3 is 950 XP spent assuming none in CGen, as Atts are FAR more important for starting points — the 1000 point range is different in feel, but not "game breaking"...

Filling the ebb/flow tree is only 120 points to complete. Counting the opening cost.

(Protect/Unleash is 215, Bind is 210)...

So generally, a force power tree is about 1/2 the cost of a specialty tree, but varying from 1/3 to about 3/4...

Ebb/Flow to a dangerous level - well, let's see.

• Everyone in Short is pretty arrangeable. Needs a 10 point upgrade.
• Expected result of more than 1: that's 3 force dice, with an expected 2-you-can-use.
• Ability to do more than one strain a round: 10 point upgrade

So, 35 points in, and minions last 2-3 rounds, as they run (typically) 4-6 WT, and stun to them does Wounds.

The expensive part is adding force dice. It's at least 70 XP to get to a +1 FR. And 20 for tree 2... so about 450 XP to get to FR 4, if you really want to. At which point, the 35 points more for Ebb/flow to be dangerous is not much more.

Two FR 3 jedi with Ebb/Flow and 40 points in (adding the first magnitude), and they can drop huge swathes of minion level foes on the battlefield by running together into them...

Alright I'm pretty much ready @DaverWattra ! Anyone wanna GM for this experiment...?

I'd suggest @Richardbuxton

http://swsheets.com/c/ehbfrwvql-fenris-moz-grr-

This is an idea for a build @ 500xp

With 5xp left over

The species is shistivanen not whatever sw sheets tells you...

I gotta couple of issues with it but I think it might be good to go.

All seeker, all da time!!

41 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

Alright I'm pretty much ready @DaverWattra ! Anyone wanna GM for this experiment...?

I'm good to go!

Here's another balance question about Ebb/Flow:

It looks an awful lot like the Control: Failure/Success upgrade has put the Shien master's Disruptive Strike talent out of business. The only time I can think of that Disruptive Strike could possibly be better is if the enemy you target decides to take a turn off from making checks--but that's going to be a pretty rare occurrence. Am I missing something here?

(If I'm not missing something, I would be tempted to disallow the Strength upgrade to the Failure/Success ability, just so that Shien Experts have an incentive to take Disruptive Strike.)

It looks like it, it costs 50xp to reach and get the failure/success control and strength upgrades to ebb/flow, but it costs 75xp to reach and get disruptive strike, and disruptive strike only effects combat checks. Although if the target is immune to force powers then disruptive strike might be better, since I think you can still use force talents against targets that are force immune, but you couldn't use ebb/flow.

1 hour ago, DaverWattra said:

Here's another balance question about Ebb/Flow:

It looks an awful lot like the Control: Failure/Success upgrade has put the Shien master's Disruptive Strike talent out of business. The only time I can think of that Disruptive Strike could possibly be better is if the enemy you target decides to take a turn off from making checks--but that's going to be a pretty rare occurrence. Am I missing something here?

(If I'm not missing something, I would be tempted to disallow the Strength upgrade to the Failure/Success ability, just so that Shien Experts have an incentive to take Disruptive Strike.)

One of the arguments that has been put forward is that Ebb/Flow makes certain other Talents and Powers obsolete. Disruptive Strike could be one of them.