I was looking for some ideas and came across this on Warlords which I've tweaked to my own preference. I really like it but I'm feeling it has a big hole/issue with it I'm not seeing/getting aside from being light on activations.

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 400/400

Commander: Commander Sato

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

[ flagship ] MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
- Commander Sato ( 32 points)
- Mon Karren ( 8 points)
- Ahsoka Tano ( 2 points)
- Fire-Control Team ( 2 points)
- Medical Team ( 1 points)
- XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points)
- Spinal Armament ( 9 points)
- Ion Cannon Batteries ( 5 points)
= 167 total ship cost

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57 points)
- Salvation ( 7 points)
- Toryn Farr ( 7 points)
- Slaved Turrets ( 6 points)
= 77 total ship cost

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57 points)
- Yavaris ( 5 points)
- Adar Tallon ( 10 points)
- Slaved Turrets ( 6 points)
= 78 total ship cost

4 A-Wing Squadrons ( 44 points)
1 Wedge Antilles ( 19 points)
1 VCX-100 Freighter ( 15 points)

Adar talon is a nono on yavaris. You want him on another ship to activate wedge, then unactivate, then shoot two more times with yavaris.

I like the ion cannon batteries with fore control and xx9, strip a shield to get the 2 face up damage cards more easily. Nice idea!

First off do no use Fire Control. The FAQ ruined that card, it does not function in this - or really any - list.

I mean, I see what you are trying to do with the list, I just am skeptical it will work on the table like it is in your head.

Wedge having escort you will never get to use his ability because he will go down to concentrated fire too quickly. Yavaris seems only oddly placed since most of your fighters want to rely on simply tying up and delay enemy squads rather than actually engaging for destruction. If you want to pack a heavier anti squadron compliment, you are directly at odds with wanting to add more ship guns to take advantage of the effect (thus the inherent conundrum of Sato).

Also, the Liberty is a lot of fun, but I think it operates similarly to the Victory Star Destroyer does for the Imperials, the fewer upgrades you can place on it the better. I typically run it with nothing but Mon Karren and Veteran Gunners and it pushes damage just fine. Mon Karren means they can only spend 1 token, Vet Gunners is just a one shot crap roll insurance that also lets you lock in an acc on the Redirect (I typically use Mon Karren and the big batteries to force ships to burn braces early, like turn 2-3, when they REALLY want to conserve them and are letting the 3 damage plinks from my small ships go through).

I won't pretend to be the best with the Liberty, but as it sits there I think you just need to trim it down and get a cr90 with Turbolaser Rerouts (or Dual Turbolasers work well with Sato to use the third red dice to fish for accuracy) or optimally two in there.

I think you can fish 15 points out of the Liberty by taking it down to Mon Karren and Spinals. If you delete Yavaris to add a CR90A with TRC you gain 17 points. I would also swap Wedge in for Tycho to guarantee you can get a squad in place for Sato (since he ignores all engagement restrictions) which gives you 3 more points. With those 35 points I would add a flotilla with coms net for Sato to ride which leaves you 15 points left. If you dropped Spinals for Vet Gunners would put you at 19, you could add another flotilla and shuffle Toryn Far onto it for the squads, that would put you at 5 activations and spread your points around some more, which would make this fleet a really balanced threat.

Gives you 3 long range threats, a large ship anchor, and 5 activations, and a workable Sato Squadron force with the ships to activate them.

If it is too far from your intention, then I would still drop the upgrades from the Liberty to fit in a flotilla to activate the squads and drop Adar from Yavaris. Flight Commander and Fighter Coordination teams would be much more useful for trying to shuffle Wedge into position to double tap for less points.

24 minutes ago, Xeletor said:

Adar talon is a nono on yavaris. You want him on another ship to activate wedge, then unactivate, then shoot two more times with yavaris.

I like the ion cannon batteries with fore control and xx9, strip a shield to get the 2 face up damage cards more easily. Nice idea!

What's the difference? Shoot twice with Yavris Wedge, unactivate, activate with another ship? Unless Yavaris is more likely to be focused down first?

15 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

If it is too far from your intention, then I would still drop the upgrades from the Liberty to fit in a flotilla to activate the squads and drop Adar from Yavaris. Flight Commander and Fighter Coordination teams would be much more useful for trying to shuffle Wedge into position to double tap for less points.

I totally lifted the list and Wedge was not in the original version which did have Tycho and the before mentioned suggestion of Adar/Toryn being switched. I've mostly been trying to figure out the Sato conundrum as I just really like that ability for some reason.

33 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

First off do no use Fire Control. The FAQ ruined that card, it does not function in this - or really any - list.

You're Kidding, Right? I thought you knew better than that, Broba

This is pretty well the one Circumstance it does work... When you're combining Two Non-Default Critical Effects.

Ion Cannon Batteries + XX-9.

It increases not only damage done, but critical damage done... Ideally hitting a target with a Blue Crit without a Command Token nets you +1 additional Damage as the Shield is downed in the Critical Phase... That is effectively allowing 1 extra Damage to get through to the Hull, which can be Face-up'd with the XX9 Turbolasers, and a standard Contain can't do anything about any of it.

Personally, the only Change I'd make is turning the Spinal Turbolasers into XI7s (or take the Mon Karren Title)... Now you have the Patented LibertyDrill(TM)... Hit a Shield Zone and punch clean through it, to do massive Damage to the Hull.... It is the ultimate in Concentrated Fire, and can only be Exceeded by an ISD-II with a Powered-Up Devestator Title, essentially packing the same Upgrades.

And this is just a comment on your "FAQ Ruined Fire Control" statement... It ruined it in comparison to combining a Non-Standard with a Standard Critical Effect... And APTs.

If you're not using APTs, or the Default - FCT can be a potential Goldmine of Critical Combination.

More detail about adar and yavaris: with adar on the other nebulon, activate wedge (squad token suffices), move him to engage and shoot, de-activate with adar. Then activate yavaris, activate wedge. He is now in position, so he can use yavaris' ability to shoot twice. With adar on yavaris you dont get this benefit!

Like this you can hold wedge back (on some obstacle ideally so a fast enemy cannot tie him down, since obstruction avoids engagement) and let your awings tie up enemies. Once it looks save for wedge bring him in and triple tap like described above.

This also avoids him being focused down. If the enemy tries anyway, wedge will be close to your ships and his squadrons will eat their anti squadron shots. Win win.

Maybe you want to swith intel sweep to salvage run. It allows you to slow roll with the front arcs pointed at the center and to grab a token turn 1 with the vcx. Like that your enemy might take advanced gunnery (since contested outpost poses the same problems for him, you know where he is going and point your front arcs and fighters there).

In intel sweep you either expose your nebulons' side arcs or lose front arc shots with the liberty. It might work, this is just my gut feeling.

If you dont have corellian conflict then mine field might be good. Make a corridor so your front arc ships can sail right along and flankers get the mines. The vcx can also move them.

37 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

You're Kidding, Right? I thought you knew better than that, Broba

This is pretty well the one Circumstance it does work... When you're combining Two Non-Default Critical Effects.

Ion Cannon Batteries + XX-9.

It increases not only damage done, but critical damage done... Ideally hitting a target with a Blue Crit without a Command Token nets you +1 additional Damage as the Shield is downed in the Critical Phase... That is effectively allowing 1 extra Damage to get through to the Hull, which can be Face-up'd with the XX9 Turbolasers, and a standard Contain can't do anything about any of it.

Personally, the only Change I'd make is turning the Spinal Turbolasers into XI7s (or take the Mon Karren Title)... Now you have the Patented LibertyDrill(TM)... Hit a Shield Zone and punch clean through it, to do massive Damage to the Hull.... It is the ultimate in Concentrated Fire, and can only be Exceeded by an ISD-II with a Powered-Up Devestator Title, essentially packing the same Upgrades.

And this is just a comment on your "FAQ Ruined Fire Control" statement... It ruined it in comparison to combining a Non-Standard with a Standard Critical Effect... And APTs.

If you're not using APTs, or the Default - FCT can be a potential Goldmine of Critical Combination.

Ok Ok, wrist slap respectfully absorbed and I will be more careful with my absolute statements in the future.

I rushed to the conclusion that this upgrade is bunk while in this situation it works, but is STILL part of the "too many points for the effect" problem in my opinion. Now if that is the desired effect, please by all means continue to run it. I just know that I love seeing any single ship above 150 pts accross the table from me because I can pretty much guarantee I will kill it and win. If it's a Motti ISD, I know I will take losses to do so. A Liberty wouldn't scare me, even this Sato abomination. It's too weak to squadrons.

2 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

Ok Ok, wrist slap respectfully absorbed and I will be more careful with my absolute statements in the future.

I rushed to the conclusion that this upgrade is bunk while in this situation it works, but is STILL part of the "too many points for the effect" problem in my opinion. Now if that is the desired effect, please by all means continue to run it. I just know that I love seeing any single ship above 150 pts accross the table from me because I can pretty much guarantee I will kill it and win. If it's a Motti ISD, I know I will take losses to do so. A Liberty wouldn't scare me, even this Sato abomination. It's too weak to squadrons.

It does play the "Kill the Carrier" game very well in comparison to most though....

IF you've got a Sato Shot, from a BattleCruiser, with a Blue Crit - You can almost delete a Quasar right off the bat... I mean, I've deleted Victories hitting them in the Side (I did get a double Structural from the XX9s though) - and Victories are tougher targets.

It is very much a Shoot and Scoot Speed 3 Cruise Missile... It does its damage in Turn 2, and then maybe again in turns 5 and 6 once its turned around... But its certainly playing the "Running, Running, Running..." game.

And if Bombers are chasing it, then they're leaving Nebulon-B Side Arcs alone, which honestly, are easier points for them to go for

The issue I've been having is not really managing MSU lists properly. I like a bit of finesse but I'm feeling a need for a list that wants to do "X" specific thing. I've been trying to cover too many bases and ending up not good at anything. I feel like that while this might not be the strongest list I'd play it better than a stronger list.

17 minutes ago, Xeletor said:

In intel sweep you either expose your nebulons' side arcs or lose front arc shots with the liberty. It might work, this is just my gut feeling.

The Intel Sweep is high on the things I'm unsure about with the list. I don't feel like I'd want stuff scattered around. I mostly wanted the VCX for the relay and more flexibility to activate from Yavaris but it does seem like it would play better with Salvage Run.

25 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

It does play the "Kill the Carrier" game very well in comparison to most though....

IF you've got a Sato Shot, from a BattleCruiser, with a Blue Crit - You can almost delete a Quasar right off the bat... I mean, I've deleted Victories hitting them in the Side (I did get a double Structural from the XX9s though) - and Victories are tougher targets.

It is very much a Shoot and Scoot Speed 3 Cruise Missile... It does its damage in Turn 2, and then maybe again in turns 5 and 6 once its turned around... But its certainly playing the "Running, Running, Running..." game.

And if Bombers are chasing it, then they're leaving Nebulon-B Side Arcs alone, which honestly, are easier points for them to go for

Yeah I mean, of course I am approaching this from the standpoint of my particular tournament list. When lists like this show up across from me anything less than a 8-3 would surprise me. Against a Rebel squadron list this would fare better, I think. But a Motti ISD-2 Avenger throwing Rhymer and friends before it shoots is just bad news something with a single redirect.

6 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

But a Motti ISD-2 Avenger throwing Rhymer and friends before it shoots is just bad news something with a single redirect.

To be fair - What isn't that Bad to?

THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF IT

But for lack of a better term, its almost exactly the same as what this Liberty is, in effect.

I mean, its vacuum statements - hopefully you have Intel, because as Sato, the list must default to having fighters that can provide coverage as well as targeting information.

Not to get too far in too many vacuum statements, but I put it on the same part and parcel as the ISD you mentioned - both want first player, or at least, a first/last activation so they can do their thing Unmolested... The game kidn of happens around them, as they jockey for that position.

If the Liberty can pull off a Speed 3 Last/First sort of deal, move in from outside long, Pummel you at Medium-to-long (doesn't have to get any closer than that), and then Speed off in a different direction at speed 3... It doesn't take a lot of firepower, especially if its approach is from a flank.

If the ISD can do the same, or keep its Nose-Arc firmly planted on the Liberty and not be Distracted, well, its mad, Mad, M.A.D. game we all play at that point