In my frantic builds to streamline overpriced ships into the 100 standard many upgrade slots go unused, I have an idea that could help bring less frequently used ships back into the fold...

" Stripped Down (limited)

Universal Upgrade (Crew, Astro mech, Salvaged Astromech, System, Tech, Cannon, Turret, Missile, Torpedo, Bombs, Illicit)

For every upgrade that is unused on this Stripped Down equipped ship reduce the cost of this card by 1 (Multiple of the same upgrade type count as 1)

Cost: -2"

Anyone else think something like this is needed to help get the underdogs back in the game?

Dammit.

Still 1 point too many for triple Decimators.

I like it but I think it would break more ships than it would fix.

That would be cool. Four Jumpmasters with Plasma Torps and Extra Munitions. Finally a use for that overpriced ship.

23 minutes ago, Polda said:

I like it but I think it would break more ships than it would fix.

It would snap the game over its knee and throw the remains into a volcano.

It's a terrible idea.

Some of the ships in the game that are already the most efficient would become significantly more efficient, whilst those that rely on upgrades to survive would be screwed.

For example: Parattani. Fenn now costs -2 points, Assaj now costs -4. Plenty of points to fit out Manaroo. Or alternatively, Mana costs -6 instead.

I think you could try a different angle to prevent abuse with ships that don't need all their upgrade slots.

Light Fighter (title, 0 points) "You may not equip any other upgrade cards to this ship. You may not equip this card if there are more than 3 icons in your upgrade bar. Subtract 1 point from the squad point cost of this ship for each icon in your upgrade bar."

9 minutes ago, jmswood said:

I think you could try a different angle to prevent abuse with ships that don't need all their upgrade slots.

Light Fighter (title, 0 points) "You may not equip any other upgrade cards to this ship. You may not equip this card if there are more than 3 icons in your upgrade bar. Subtract 1 point from the squad point cost of this ship for each icon in your upgrade bar."

Add "small ship only" and I think it's brilliant. Otherwise you could get lot of abuse out of some ships like U-wings.

All the already-overly-efficient Scum ships with their oversaturated upgrade bars are drooling right now, especially because they have access to more upgrade types and slots than the other factions (thanks to Illicits).

A neat concept in theory, but an utterly game-wrecking decision once you start to look at what it enables. I mean, my god, you're talking about 18pt Contracted Scouts (or 20pt Scouts with Mindlink), 23pt Trandoshan Slavers, 9pt Scum Z-95s (hello 11 Ship Swarm, which would never finish a game in 75 minutes), and TIE Fighters are stuck at 12 points while upgrade heavy ships like the TIE Bomber (11pt) and TIE Punisher (15pt) would embarrass it. Khiraxzes drop 3pts yet still get to fill up their title and mod slots without any penalty, since Titles and Mods don't appear on upgrade bars (so titles like Virago , Slave-1 , Mist Hunter , and Andrasta gain -2/-1 costs as well).

10 minutes ago, Astech said:

Add "small ship only" and I think it's brilliant. Otherwise you could get lot of abuse out of some ships like U-wings.

Only if you want to see 11 Ship Swarms (Scum Z-95 is at 9pts) or things like a 17pt Khiraxz or 11pt TIE Bomber... all while the TIE Fighter is still stuck at 12 points...

What you call brilliant I call absurdly game-breaking.

The ONLY way I could see that work was if it was -2 (no additional point reduction) and had the condition that the ship could not equip any upgrades.

Making it a swarm builder only, but allowing ships that just come with too many upgrade slots a greater benefit is silly.

1 minute ago, PastrySandwich said:

The ONLY way I could see that work was if it was -2 (no additional point reduction) and had the condition that the ship could not equip any upgrades.

Making it a swarm builder only, but allowing ships that just come with too many upgrade slots a greater benefit is silly.

Yes, also making it require an existing upgrade slot screws the TIE Fighter while helping the Z-95, for instance, so it would need to be universally available probably (e.g. as a Title ).

Even then, though, it enables swarm builds to go from 8 Ships to 10 Ships, which strikes me as a really bad idea. Not sure 10 Ship swarms would be able to compete, but my god they'd be so slow and boring to play against and would make the already long 75 minute time-limit for rounds inadequate.

4 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Yes, also making it require an existing upgrade slot screws the TIE Fighter while helping the Z-95, for instance, so it would need to be universally available probably (e.g. as a Title ).

Even then, though, it enables swarm builds to go from 8 Ships to 10 Ships, which strikes me as a really bad idea. Not sure 10 Ship swarms would be able to compete, but my god they'd be so slow and boring to play against and would make the already long 75 minute time-limit for rounds inadequate.

You can only have a max of 8 of the same small ships in standard anyway.

Just now, MegaSilver said:

You can only have a max of 8 ships in standard anyway.

Since when?

8 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Only if you want to see 11 Ship Swarms (Scum Z-95 is at 9pts) or things like a 17pt Khiraxz or 11pt TIE Bomber... all while the TIE Fighter is still stuck at 12 points...

What you call brilliant I call absurdly game-breaking.

Sure you can do that, and it'll still lose to Dengar, or any of the other popular Attanni builds. Hell, Fenn might be able to solo it. I could also see Assault missiles becoming a lot more popular (let's face it - hard counter in 7 points...). The big ones would be the B-wing, Bomber and probably ARC.

2 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Yes, also making it require an existing upgrade slot screws the TIE Fighter while helping the Z-95, for instance, so it would need to be universally available probably (e.g. as a Title ).

Even then, though, it enables swarm builds to go from 8 Ships to 10 Ships, which strikes me as a really bad idea. Not sure 10 Ship swarms would be able to compete, but my god they'd be so slow and boring to play against and would make the already long 75 minute time-limit for rounds inadequate.

Well I guess we could call it a modification instead of the originally intended "universal upgrade", if they whole point is you get nothing else and mod fits everywhere then its "fair".

On the one hand I would like to see more swarms be able to be flown, not just TIE, on the other, yeah moving 10 TIEs, kill me now.

7 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Even then, though, it enables swarm builds to go from 8 Ships to 10 Ships, which strikes me as a really bad idea. Not sure 10 Ship swarms would be able to compete, but my god they'd be so slow and boring to play against and would make the already long 75 minute time-limit for rounds inadequate.

In my experience Z-95s have a tendency to die in one shot 90% of the time. It'll be fine.

I got no words.

I came up with something similar in another thread, but less likely to break already potent ships which aren't using all their slots.

Mass Produced: Mod, You may not equip this card if your pilot skill is 6 or higher, You may equip an additional modification but you cannot equip any unique cards or cards with a cost of three or greater, -2 points

Maybe with an exception to the points limit for ordinance so cheap bombers and Ys can serve their big lore role. can make it Empire and Rebellion only if you want to reflect that they have production resources not really available to a bunch of pirates and thugs. Or small ship only.

25 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

I got no words.

That's 4.

18 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

It would snap the game over its knee and throw the remains into a volcano.

It's a terrible idea.

Some of the ships in the game that are already the most efficient would become significantly more efficient, whilst those that rely on upgrades to survive would be screwed.

For example: Parattani. Fenn now costs -2 points, Assaj now costs -4. Plenty of points to fit out Manaroo. Or alternatively, Mana costs -6 instead.

Don't take the bullsh*it like 5 Lambdas with FCS away from me!

That really is the only appeal of this. Stupid stuff for casual games. I otherwise agree with you completely.

Scum was the first thing I though of when I read the OP. Especially Asajj who can run with just an EPT and Latts. Even worse than that imagine the insane joust lists this could bring into the game.

I would not want to face a miniswarm of 4 T-70s (3x Blues and Jess) that can all fit R2, Integrated Mech and still have the points for a Z-95 blocker.

I would not want to face 5 B-Wings or Mist Hunters or hell like 7 ship swarm and a pocket ace.

The game would go back to masses of bodies and red dice running at each other, K-turning, running at each other again, rinse, repeat with some nasty scum efficiency list on the side.

And let's face it - you can get the experience a card like this would bring to the game from playing Epic. Which also has you moving cool huge ships around without breaking the game.

Ok I agree my idea was a bit OP when used on ships that don't need help... hmm how about something to help the least used Ordanance Carriers?

" Optimised Weapons System:

Universal Upgrade (Torpedo or Missile)

Equipped ship may maintain up to two target locks on the same enemy ship

Cost: 0"

I'm just a sucker for trying to get the less popular ships back into the game...

2 hours ago, MrMaggles said:

Ok I agree my idea was a bit OP when used on ships that don't need help... hmm how about something to help the least used Ordanance Carriers?

" Optimised Weapons System:

Universal Upgrade (Torpedo or Missile)

Equipped ship may maintain up to two target locks on the same enemy ship

Cost: 0"

I'm just a sucker for trying to get the less popular ships back into the game...

Poor Redline.

8 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Poor Redline .

They still can't acquire two target locks at once like redline, so they basically have to telegraph their next shot for two turns before taking it. I don't think it'd be used.

The idea is good, but it needs polish. As a matter of fact, I was thinking about an upgrade that would help fix the "turret slot tax" on HWKs and Y-Wings without them just today.

Anyway, here's a version that I think might work a little better:

-2 points, modification

You may equip another non-unique modification.

You may not equip this card if you have less than three unused upgrade slots.

optionally small ship only.

Well with more and more 0 point upgrades the upgrade slots are starting to take a value of their own. Take a look at the EPT slot, before Adaptability an EPT slot on a pilot was a valuable thing, so much that some people consider it more important than a pilot ability. With Adaptability now that EPT slot was more valuable on generics which means you can move them further from that pilot skill 5 one of the weakest skills in the game (there is no such thing as an average pilot, you're either an ace or a target).

Now the downside is that you need more upgrade cards and the balance of the meta depends more on ship upgrade combos instead of a even balance of ship stats, dials and builds. The one thing the Jumpmaster is considered so good, is the set of upgrades. Take away the salvaged astromech slot, and do you think it will be doing as well as it has been all this time?

We already got 0 point upgrades for EPTs, System, Modification, Crew (only for some factions) and even salvaged astromech. I am certain as the game progresses we will end up with more such 0 point cost upgrades.