So basically this has come up as a rules question at my local store (especially now that the C-ROC has released).

I have a small ship (eg, HWK or Quadjumper) with Vizago + Cloaking Device. First turn action is cloak, then at the end of the turn Vizago lets me discard the Cloaking Device for another illicit (eg, BMST).

The obvious thing is that your ship remains cloaked, no trouble with that particular piece of logic, the real question is whether or not the Cloaking Device continues to make me roll to see if it breaks?

From my interpretation, you no longer have the card which would force you to perform the check equipped to the ship, (a similar instance would be Boba Fett removing Adaptive Ailerons from a TIE striker - next time you go to move, you no longer have the card saying you must perform the 1-speed manoeuvre before revealing your dial). However common sense dictates that this is unreasonable; and my local TO has judged that until there is a concrete FFG ruling, he will not be allowing the 'permacloaking' exploit. Halp!

Rules as Written, it works the way you think it does. A cloaked token has an in-game effect, and only Vizago requires the roll to keep the token. Unless the rules change, it works that way (though, you also lose the Cloaking Device's ability to discard the token with decloaking.

Your interpretation is right. When you discard the Cloaking Device, ther is no game effect that forces you to roll to lose anything,

And Frank Brooks, Associate Creative Content Developer at FFG, seems to agree with that interpretation as well.

10 hours ago, Mindlinkip said:

So basically this has come up as a rules question at my local store (especially now that the C-ROC has released).

I have a small ship (eg, HWK or Quadjumper) with Vizago + Cloaking Device. First turn action is cloak, then at the end of the turn Vizago lets me discard the Cloaking Device for another illicit (eg, BMST).

The obvious thing is that your ship remains cloaked, no trouble with that particular piece of logic, the real question is whether or not the Cloaking Device continues to make me roll to see if it breaks?

From my interpretation, you no longer have the card which would force you to perform the check equipped to the ship, (a similar instance would be Boba Fett removing Adaptive Ailerons from a TIE striker - next time you go to move, you no longer have the card saying you must perform the 1-speed manoeuvre before revealing your dial). However common sense dictates that this is unreasonable; and my local TO has judged that until there is a concrete FFG ruling, he will not be allowing the 'permacloaking' exploit. Halp!

So Frank Brooks (FFG staff) interprets that you can stay cloaked, do not have to roll to see if you lose it, and you only lose it if you decloak.

Your local TO says no to "permacloaking," but what are the specifics of his interpretation?

What does he say happens to the status of the cloak token when Vizago removes the Cloaking Device? Do you immediately decloak or does it stay on and you roll for failure? As Achowat interprets - do you lose the ability to ever decloak and stay in a cloaked mode the rest of the game? OR Does the cloak token just get taken off of your ship with no actual decloak movement.

You can show him the Frank Brooks email, but not all TOs will take that, because it's not "official." If he takes a hard stand on it, you may be out of luck unless other players agree with you and convince him to align with the opinions noted here.

The thing, as weird or "unreasonable" as some may find it. There is absolutely no rule that say that if your ship does not have an ability to get a token type that it must discard it. If your TO say that, then he must also make any ship that have an "illegal" token discard it. If a ship don't have a mean to acquire an Evade Token, it must discard it. Or an evade or a target lock.

The rules of Cloak are linked to the token, not an upgrade card. And he will be out of luck if he wait for an FAQ, because they could have included it in the last FAQ and they did not, so they seems to assume that it is clear by the current rules.

To further drive the point home: the phantom does not have a target lock action, but can get and maintain a target lock (FCS, other source, etc). Tomorrow morning, they could invent the "cloaking device projector" and assign cloaking tokens to ships without cloaking device.

Also while it might rub some people the wrong way, may I also point out that a single use cloaking device is actually... not that hot. There are far more dangerous combos out there.

The Cloaked token comes with its own rules once you have one. While you have it you get the +2 Agility and can't attack. If you "spend" it during its window you get to decloak as normal.

1 hour ago, StevenO said:

The Cloaked token comes with its own rules once you have one. While you have it you get the +2 Agility and can't attack. If you "spend" it during its window you get to decloak as normal.

I think this is the key explanation I would use with the TO of the OP. If you read the Cloak and Decloak reference cards, once the token is placed that is what defines the change in agility and inability to fire. Likewise spending the token allows you to decloak. So regardless of whether it is Boba Fett removing the cloaking device or Vizago, the token is still in play until a player spends it.

Think this: if you had to roll to lose cloak even if the cloaking device is no longer in play, Boba Fett crew would do absolutely nothing, since you could apply that to every card's text.

And Vizago would be trully OP, because you would be able to use the new illicit AND the discarded one.

Ask your TO if that has more sense.