I am new to the setting, but I've been reading the L5R wiki intensively so I've managed to get a sense of the general story. However, while I was reading, I very often couldn't help but wonder what happened specifically due to the players' influence on the story and what was instead entirely independent of that - in particular, many characters seemed to experience a sequence of downfalls and resurgencies which seemed strange to justify otherwise.

So I'm asking, mostly to the O5R veterans of course, which are the most important and memorable events that were determined by "player interaction"?

For example, I've often read the Phoenix (a clan that appeals a lot to me) has historically been cursed with bad results tournament-wise that reflected in the story as well. Anyone remembers those and would care to point them out to me?

Another thing, somewhat related to the above: I would be really interested in knowing how the relative strength of the clans developed in the card game: which were the strongest/weakest clans during the game's lifespan?

I'd be grateful to anyone who's willing to answer: that'd be very much appreciated, since there's no easy way of knowing this otherwise (that I know of).

Jokingly: I think Mantis won where they make an orangutan a clanman.

Seriously for the other thing, I always felt that Phoenix was always on the lower end of the spectrum in term of power. They always had the smallest playerbase back then and the jankiness of shugenja/samurai dependance on most of their deck was detrimental in making them consistent. They were absolute beast when someone discovered a combo with them but most of those deck where NPE and got banned/errata immediately.

hope it helps a bit..

Off the top of my head:

• Totori and Hoturi double teaming Fu Leng during the Second Day of Thunder was caused by the top two at the tourney preferring to fight Fu Leng rather than each other. Results were changed from "Who kills Fu Leng and becomes Emperor?" to "Which of the two dies when they take out Fu Leng leaving the other to be Emperor?"

• During one long tourney the final two (Dragon and Scorpion) were very tired and ask if they could just make the results a tie. The tournament's original reward was changed into forging a long term alliance between Dragon and Scorpion.

1 minute ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

• During one long tourney the final two (Dragon and Scorpion) were very tired and ask if they could just make the results a tie. The tournament's original reward was changed into forging a long term alliance between Dragon and Scorpion.

They would be allies as long as the opposing Clan Champion was in the deck.

27 minutes ago, Eu8L1ch said:

I am new to the setting, but I've been reading the L5R wiki intensively so I've managed to get a sense of the general story. However, while I was reading, I very often couldn't help but wonder what happened specifically due to the players' influence on the story and what was instead entirely independent of that - in particular, many characters seemed to experience a sequence of downfalls and resurgencies which seemed strange to justify otherwise.

So I'm asking, mostly to the O5R veterans of course, which are the most important and memorable events that were determined by "player interaction"?

For example, I've often read the Phoenix (a clan that appeals a lot to me) has historically been cursed with bad results tournament-wise that reflected in the story as well. Anyone remembers those and would care to point them out to me?

Another thing, somewhat related to the above: I would be really interested in knowing how the relative strength of the clans developed in the card game: which were the strongest/weakest clans during the game's lifespan?

I'd be grateful to anyone who's willing to answer: that'd be very much appreciated, since there's no easy way of knowing this otherwise (that I know of).

Generally the most important results would happen at the World Championships, usually at the end of an "arc".

- The 1997 World Championsips, the Day of Thunder, decided who would kill the dark god Fu Leng. It was won by Lion over Crane. The two players declared that they wanted to work together to save the empire, so the Lion and Crane Thunders, Toturi and Doji Hoturi, teamed up for the kill. Toturi then became the emperor, ruled for about 6 years IRL and then his kids ruled for about 6 more.

- The 2000 World Championships decided who would defeat the Living Darkness. It was won by Phoenix over Shadowlands. A key play involved the Phoenix player corrupting his Air Dragon, which played out in the story with the corrupted dragon becoming a major villain for the duration of the game's run.

- The 2003 WC had a four-way prize based on voting and results that determined which of Toturi's four children would rule/die/become Voice of the Emperor/join the winner's clan. It was won by Phoenix over Crane. Hantei Naseru became Emperor Toturi III, and ruled until 2007. Akodo Kaneka joined the Phoenix. Toturi Sezaru became Voice of the Emperor and also joined the Phoenix. Toturi Tsudao sacrificed herself to defeat the dark lord Daigotsu.

- Toturi's surviving children all died near the end of the Lotus arc. The Samurai arc was a 2+ year story mega-game based on numerous factors that would determine the new Emperor, as well as many other imperial posts. It was eventually won by the Dragon clan, and Kitsuki Iweko became Empress Iweko I.

After this, story results became quite a bit less notable. There were generally too many prizes spread out over relatively unimportant things. The Celestial arc, for instance, had another mega-game that was supposed to have important results, but the following arc jumped forward about 20 years and mostly ignored the results.

The Phoenix clan was actually one of the most successful clans over the game's history. They were definitely the most successful over the first 8 years or so. They hit a bit of a weak period after that but still had some good results. I would say either Phoenix or Lion was most successful overall. They were generally the two clans with the highest starting honor, which allowed them to go first in a game that heavily rewarded doing so.

Very helpful replies, thank you all.

@williamobrien, that was very informative, great read!

Yea, there were an awful lot of BS "filler" results that were things lie "Who will be safe, and who will get corrupted during the Rain of Blood?!" and then a giant pile of mid-to-low-level characters to choose from, but the overall effects in the story were brief mentions, at best. Same with picking who would be the champion of each Bushido virtue (Yu, etc.) and so on and so forth.

In reality, the Day of Thunder and the Four Winds resolution were about the only two events that felt all that significant or important.

The Race for the Throne was significant in terms of magnitude and effort put forward by all the clans' playerbase and community globally.

The result was ok at most but the journey to get there was full of come-uppance, wheeling and dealing, bounties, tension and uneasy alliances by everyone.

if only AEG didn't back out of the consequences for the clan losing out.

10 minutes ago, Bayushi Bajie said:

if only AEG didn't back out of the consequences for the clan losing out.

Which clan lost? I'm curious. ^^

All other clan lost except the Dragon. But some specific consequences was suppose to happen depending on which Clan won.

I don't remember which is which if the Dragon won, i think it was the dissolvement of the Spider but instead they we're only exposed and legitimized..

I do recall that if the Scorpion wins, the second place winner will be dissolve and by the last leg of the race, the Scorpion and Dragon was jockeying for 1st/2nd place so the Scorpion community decided to intentionally aim for 2nd place so that we don't have to dissolve the Dragon ( long-term ally but the race actually severed it ) if we let Dragon win, and the Dragon will be Emperor and they in turn will destroy the Spider ( Scorpion hated them back then ).

the Scorpion community was feeling good about ourselves back them at it was good move thematically for us in-character, we let someone win because we felt we we're better as kingmakers than kings and we could see the greatest threat for the empire at the time destroy. Sadly it didn't happen..

also, this is be no means a knack on the Dragon's effort that time. English isnt my native language and "let them win" is best i could think of atm

Oh, that would've made for a nice development of the plot I think. I guess Spider clan players wouldn't have been happy at all though..

I was under the impression that the secondary consequence for the Dragon Clan was the Spider joining the Empire, not being destroyed.

9 minutes ago, Bayushi Bajie said:

All other clan lost except the Dragon. But some specific consequences was suppose to happen depending on which Clan won.

I don't remember which is which if the Dragon won, i think it was the dissolvement of the Spider but instead they we're only exposed and legitimized..

The way it shook out, the clan in Spider's spot was supposed to lose their Great Clan status, but then get an arc where they could try to reclaim it. So their exposure was their "loss" of status, and their becoming legitimate was the result of their playerbase's actions during Celestial Edition.

The fact that Spider- who had not been a real Great Clan- ended up in the spot was what led to some severe narrative contortions.

17 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

The way it shook out, the clan in Spider's spot was supposed to lose their Great Clan status, but then get an arc where they could try to reclaim it. So their exposure was their "loss" of status, and their becoming legitimate was the result of their playerbase's actions during Celestial Edition.

The fact that Spider- who had not been a real Great Clan- ended up in the spot was what led to some severe narrative contortions.

This... you can't lose what you don't have. It would have been a great story arc had anyone who wasn't the spider "won" it. This coming from a spider player

3 minutes ago, JRosen9 said:

This... you can't lose what you don't have. It would have been a great story arc had anyone who wasn't the spider "won" it. This coming from a spider player

Yep, but back then all effort for 2 years only to be denied by a technicality leaves a sour taste. And you have to agree that "exposure" did nothing to hinder anything for the Spider Clan.

in hindsight, the Scorpion might have been better off taking the throne and banish the Dragon for the story.

8 minutes ago, JRosen9 said:

This... you can't lose what you don't have.

And if losing it comes with a side of "but then you can get it right back," the loss isn't very meaningful to begin with.

So basically, not a well-designed situation from any angle.

1 minute ago, Bayushi Bajie said:

in hindsight, the Scorpion might have been better off taking the throne and banish the Dragon for the story.

As people were saying when the Mantis were lined up for a hit along those lines in Onyx, this actually could have been a really awesome story for the Dragon. Basically send the whole clan on musha shugyo to figure out once and for all who they're going to be in the absence of Togashi.

AEG often had metrics for results that didn't do too well with casual scrutiny.

I recall the second kotei season in the Colonies, where the two top clans actually stood to LOSE more land than they gained because of how the results were originally designed. That, of course, ended up going nowhere, but...

2 minutes ago, Kinzen said:

As people were saying when the Mantis were lined up for a hit along those lines in Onyx, this actually could have been a really awesome story for the Dragon. Basically send the whole clan on musha shugyo to figure out once and for all who they're going to be in the absence of Togashi.

The Scorpion community did acknowledge the possibility of it happening but the long-standing alliance and blind desire to destroy the Spider was the deciding factor to lose the race.

2 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

AEG often had metrics for results that didn't do too well with casual scrutiny.

I recall the second kotei season in the Colonies, where the two top clans actually stood to LOSE more land than they gained because of how the results were originally designed. That, of course, ended up going nowhere, but...

Seconded, I recall that there was a concerted effort to box up the Spider holding (yeah, a lot of hate for them in-story) in the colonies by the Crab and Lion ( Scorpion would loved to help but sadly, it was a weak season for us )

But of the second half of the season, I think trading colonies or attacking it was allowed so once again Spider goes scathe free.

and oh, that whole killing personalities that most often was a clone, was brilliant on AEG's part.

18 hours ago, Bayushi Bajie said:

All other clan lost except the Dragon. But some specific consequences was suppose to happen depending on which Clan won.

I don't remember which is which if the Dragon won, i think it was the dissolvement of the Spider but instead they we're only exposed and legitimized.

There were various rewards for coming first in the various source totals. Spider won the Imperial Advisor(Even that led to the creation of a Spider Courtier family), Dragon won the Voice of the Empeor, Unicorn won the Shogun, Mantis won the Imperial Treasurer and Scorpion won the Imperial Chancellor.

The Dragon where going to "dissolve" the Clan with the lowest Spirituality score. If I remember right there was only like a 3 point (or some other slim margin) difference between Mantis and Spider final totals and Mantis only gained that lead during the final week.

18 hours ago, Kinzen said:

And if losing it comes with a side of "but then you can get it right back," the loss isn't very meaningful to begin with.

So basically, not a well-designed situation from any angle.

Well the Celestial Story arc was actually intended as a health of the faction check for the dissolved faction. I was intended to prevent a repeat of the 7th Sea ccg disaster.

46 minutes ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

I was intended to prevent a repeat of the 7th Sea ccg disaster.

As I never played 7th sea, what was this disaster?

I am partial to the Hidden Emperor arc which featured some fun story crossovers with Burning Sands and, in addition to storyline results, had some pretty rad prize support for the culminating War in the Heavens event!

19 hours ago, Bayushi Bajie said:

The Scorpion community did acknowledge the possibility of it happening but the long-standing alliance and blind desire to destroy the Spider was the deciding factor to lose the race.

I remember differently. The point difference was extremely slim between the Dragons and Scorpions. While I agree there was a portion of the scorpion clan that desired this outcome, there was just as many if not more people that wanted the clan to win, the Dragon be damned.

The much bigger deciding factor was the piling up of many clans against the scorpions at the end of the race. You had 5 ways to score points, and non-dragons pretty much all gathered around the clans with the highest chance of preventing scorpions from making points to make sure Scorpions scored the least amount of points. (everybody sending kokus in the name of the Mantis clan for economic points, People with Spider jerseys running around during Koteis for knowledge points, etc.)

Although retelling history in a way it all seemed to happen according to plan is a very scorpion thing to do. So kudos for that.

56 minutes ago, JRosen9 said:

As I never played 7th sea, what was this disaster?

One of the faction was disbanded and the game died shortly after for reason directly and indirectly related to it.

3 minutes ago, Tetsuhiko said:

Although retelling history in a way it all seemed to happen according to plan is a very scorpion thing to do. So kudos for that.

well, whats good for the Ikoma is good for the Bayushi, i guess