1 minute ago, ldorn said:How about the late Doji Satsume? Either...
A. Shoju ordered Kachiko to sleep with Satsume so he could have an heir, then ordered Satsume killed.
B. Kachiko was infatuated with Satsume, Shoju found out and killed Satsume out of jealousy. When the child was born Shoju decided to keep him.
C. As B. but Kachiko ordered him killed, then presented the child as Shoju's.
This has possibilities.
The idea of Kachiko romancing both father and daughter is a little....icky.
Just now, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:This has possibilities.
The idea of Kachiko romancing both father and daughter is a little....icky.
They both call her 'mommy.'
5 minutes ago, Samurai Fox said:I'm liking this...ugh, this also means Hotaru's got two reasons to call Kachiko "Mommy" now.
2 minutes ago, Samurai Fox said:They both call her 'mommy.'
I"m casting my vote for Aramoro. More drama,
13 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:I"m casting my vote for Aramoro. More drama,
Further twist Asami is the actual mother.
16 minutes ago, Suzume Urusai said:Further twist Asami is the actual mother.
You mean with Shoju?
Or, Aramoro and Asami?
2 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:You mean with Shoju?
Or, Aramoro and Asami?
Actually, I could totally see that. Dairu being Aramoro and Asami's pup, I mean. Perhaps Shoju's impotent as well as deformed, or otherwise the child he has with Kachiko is a stillborn (a lot more common before modern medicine), and so Shoju 'asked' Aramoro and his Asami (who could pass as Kachiko's twin when they were teens) to 'donate' their newborn so the Scorpion could have an heir. Hmm, interestingly, Aramoro actually raised Dairu as a second father in the original cannon, so Shoju wouldn't have to spend so much time with a boy that had his wife's face and the eyes of his enemy. Also, in cannon, it was mentioned that Shoju and Kachiko had a few pregnancies, but they were all miscarriages, save for one sad stillborn that was horribly deformed. If I recall, there was some suggestion that a few of the miscarriages were the result of Kachiko's brother trying to poison her (such a loving family).
13 minutes ago, Samurai Fox said:Actually, I could totally see that. Dairu being Aramoro and Asami's pup, I mean. Perhaps Shoju's impotent as well as deformed, or otherwise the child he has with Kachiko is a stillborn (a lot more common before modern medicine), and so Shoju 'asked' Aramoro and his Asami (who could pass as Kachiko's twin when they were teens) to 'donate' their newborn so the Scorpion could have an heir. Hmm, interestingly, Aramoro actually raised Dairu as a second father in the original cannon, so Shoju wouldn't have to spend so much time with a boy that had his wife's face and the eyes of his enemy. Also, in cannon, it was mentioned that Shoju and Kachiko had a few pregnancies, but they were all miscarriages, save for one sad stillborn that was horribly deformed. If I recall, there was some suggestion that a few of the miscarriages were the result of Kachiko's brother trying to poison her (such a loving family).
If I were Shoju, I"d keep a 'donated' heir close.
It was one thing for Aramoro to'hang about' mentoring the 'love child' This would be a different animal
Best to keep 'ninja bro' doing ninja stuff. Wouldn't want anyone getting an overinflated view of their role
15 hours ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:This has possibilities.
The idea of Kachiko romancing both father and daughter is a little....icky.
A. Kachiko wanted to just get closer to Hotaru so that she could get a read on the new Crane champion because Satsume dominated the Crane so totally that it was necessary to find out, and it became something else
B. Shoju ordered Kachiko to seduce both father and daughter...
1 hour ago, ldorn said:A. Kachiko wanted to just get closer to Hotaru so that she could get a read on the new Crane champion because Satsume dominated the Crane so totally that it was necessary to find out, and it became something else
B. Shoju ordered Kachiko to seduce both father and daughter...
If so, when the inevitable betrayal happens, will we some variant of "Your daddy was better in sack"?
29 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:If so, when the inevitable betrayal happens, will we some variant of "Your daddy was better in sack"?
...
I certainly hope so.
36 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:If so, when the inevitable betrayal happens, will we some variant of "Your daddy was better in sack"?
Even better:
A. Shoju feels Hotaru is getting too close to the truth about the death of Satsume and orders her killed without informing Kachiko. If and when Kachiko does learn about it does she let it happen or tries to warn Hotaru?
B. Shoju orders Kachiko to out her relationship with Hotaru publicly in court in order to weaken the Crane politically possibly allowing for a weaker Champion to be named (possibly with the help of Scorpion manipulation). Does she? If she does what would be Hotaru's reaction: challenge her former lover to a duel, step down from being Champion without naming a successor, or use the Lion/Scorpion alliance as an excuse to attack the Scorpion lands?
C: What if the Scorpion Clan Coup was to become a Coup for the Scorpion Clan? Some combination of Bayushi Aramoro, Yogo Asami, Yogo Junzo, Shosuro Hametsu trying to take over the Scorpion Clan? If Kachiko survives and seeks sanctuary with the Crane will Hotaru say yes? And what if Yogo Asami impersonates Kachiko and denounces the real Kachiko as an imposter and the only way to prove the accusation false is to out their relationship?
3 minutes ago, ldorn said:C: What if the Scorpion Clan Coup was to become a Coup for the Scorpion Clan? Some combination of Bayushi Aramoro, Yogo Asami, Yogo Junzo, Shosuro Hametsu trying to take over the Scorpion Clan? If Kachiko survives and seeks sanctuary with the Crane will Hotaru say yes? And what if Yogo Asami impersonates Kachiko and denounces the real Kachiko as an imposter and the only way to prove the accusation false is to out their relationship?
Sounds interesting, I like this idea!
4 minutes ago, Doji Makoto said:Sounds interesting, I like this idea!
I agree.
Standing behind Hotaru is Kuwanan. If he is anything like previous, I think Shoju would prefer a 'tangled up' Hotaru to him.
I don't know if this has been brought up in this thread yet (so forgive me if it has,) but the more I think about it the more I'm thinking the rest of the empire will likely consider Hotaru an honorless coward.
Stay with me on this.
We don't have all the new setting information, but it seems like specifically sniping an enemy officer, let alone a clan champion, would be the sort of thing that is highly frowned upon in Rokugan. Hotaru calls Arasou out and challenges him to single combat? Very magical samurai, very honorable-warrior type stuff. Shoot him down from a safe and distant location ? Okay for a Wasp (duh) but for a Crane it seems like that would be an insult to her opponent, his clan, and his kin.
Holy crap, I thinking I'm starting to see things Tsuko's way.
Don't get me wrong, Hotaru's decision was very effective and saved the city from being taken, but this Rokugan, where honor is (supposed to be) stronger than steel.
What do other people think? Am I off-base for what Rokugani consider the honorable way to wage war?
Edited by Suzume Tomonori9 minutes ago, Suzume Tomonori said:I don't know if this has been brought up in this thread yet (so forgive me if it has,) but the more I think about it the more I'm thinking the rest of the empire will likely consider Hotaru an honorless coward.
Stay with me on this.
We don't have all the new setting information, but it seems like specifically sniping an enemy officer, let alone a clan champion, would be the sort of thing that is highly frowned upon in Rokugan. Hotaru calls Arasou out and challenges him to single combat? Very magical samurai, very honorable-warrior type stuff. Shoot him down from a safe and distant location ? Okay for a Wasp (duh) but for a Crane it seems like that would be an insult to her opponent, his clan, and his kin.
Holy crap, I thinking I'm starting to see things Tsuko's way.
Don't get me wrong, Hotaru's decision was very effective and saved the city from being taken, but this Rokugan, where honor is (supposed to be) stronger than steel.
What do other people think? Am I off-base for what Rokugani consider the honorable way to wage war?
Sniping him in this instance doesnt rise to the level of 'dishonorable'
Though your view 'through Tsko's eyes' is probably spot on. If she had challenged him to a duel THEN shot him in face is dihonorable.
From the Crane perspective ; The Lion are attacking Crane property, they shoot any or all of them in the face and its just another summer day in Toshi Ranbo.
So while not heroic or masterful it worked.
I havent seen any non-story related setting changes. I honestly dont expect any either.
if it aint broke...
17 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:From the Crane perspective ; The Lion are attacking Crane property, they shoot any or all of them in the face and its just another summer day in Toshi Ranbo.
Right, if he happened to get pin-cushioned at random, then yes, that's just the Price of War (roll credits!)
But Hotaru specifically targetted him, which it seems would be a bit more grey. It seems like it would at least be disrespectful to not honor a person of Arasou's station with a proper challenge. At any rate, I'm sure that's how the Lion would see it.
16 minutes ago, Suzume Tomonori said:Right, if he happened to get pin-cushioned at random, then yes, that's just the Price of War (roll credits!)
But Hotaru specifically targetted him, which it seems would be a bit more grey. It seems like it would at least be disrespectful to not honor a person of Arasou's station with a proper challenge. At any rate, I'm sure that's how the Lion would see it.
This why generals usually stay in the back.
I can see your point abour Hotaru singling him out ticking off the Lion.
That might actually be the point. A deliberate show of disrespect.
Now the question is can Hotaru and the Crane handle the fallout from it
1 hour ago, Suzume Tomonori said:Right, if he happened to get pin-cushioned at random, then yes, that's just the Price of War (roll credits!)
But Hotaru specifically targetted him, which it seems would be a bit more grey. It seems like it would at least be disrespectful to not honor a person of Arasou's station with a proper challenge. At any rate, I'm sure that's how the Lion would see it.
This nameless ronin's cause is just, I shall give him an honorable duel! It will ruin my whole plan of arriving at the capital undetected, but he deserves to be treated as a skillful warrior that he truly is!
What is that? A head of the rival clan charging at me in battle? Whatever just shoot him in the forehead LUL
Edited by BordOne2 minutes ago, BordOne said:This nameless ronin's cause is just, I shall give him an honorable duel! It will ruin my whole plan of arriving at the capital undetected, but he deserves to be treated as a skillful warrior that he truly is!
What is that, a head of the rival clan charging at me in battle? Whatever just shoot him in the forehead LUL
maybe it was fashion thing
It was a statement against the Lions overuse of beige and yellow....er gold in their color coordinating.
11 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:maybe it was fashion thing
It was a statement against the Lions overuse of beige and yellow....er gold in their color coordinating.
Is Lion the least fasionable clan in Rokugan? I mean it must be the Crab right? xd
13 minutes ago, BordOne said:Is Lion the least fasionable clan in Rokugan? I mean it must be the Crab right? xd
dark blue, grey, and brick red vs brown, beige and yellow..whoops i mean gold.
the answer is obvious to anyone with color vision.
3 hours ago, Suzume Tomonori said:I don't know if this has been brought up in this thread yet (so forgive me if it has,) but the more I think about it the more I'm thinking the rest of the empire will likely consider Hotaru an honorless coward.
Stay with me on this.
We don't have all the new setting information, but it seems like specifically sniping an enemy officer, let alone a clan champion, would be the sort of thing that is highly frowned upon in Rokugan. Hotaru calls Arasou out and challenges him to single combat? Very magical samurai, very honorable-warrior type stuff. Shoot him down from a safe and distant location ? Okay for a Wasp (duh) but for a Crane it seems like that would be an insult to her opponent, his clan, and his kin.
Holy crap, I thinking I'm starting to see things Tsuko's way.
Don't get me wrong, Hotaru's decision was very effective and saved the city from being taken, but this Rokugan, where honor is (supposed to be) stronger than steel.
What do other people think? Am I off-base for what Rokugani consider the honorable way to wage war?
I could see this happening if a Lion or especially a Unicorn sniped a Crane - but I doubt it will come up for Hotaru. I think the writer intended to make the moment a climax... but as I've said before - I don't feel it. I think it's a bit of a flop as far as fiction goes, but I doubt any of this will come up again. The next story with Lion is going to have Toturi telling Tsuko and other people to not fight, as if not fighting was short hand for "tactics", while they lose battle after battle as the writers use the continued losses under the dispassionate Tutori as an example of the loose cannon that Tsuko is, or something...
idk - I'm really jaded on this story. Crane stealing the show, anti-climactic death of a champion... Toturi says it would be dishonorable to actually attack the city they are currently engaged in battle over, and that they should siege it instead (when a siege lead to this battle / opportunity to take the city in the first place)... Speaking of which, this was originally a Lion city anyway... they are "retaking" it...
I doubt Hotaru will get any flack for this action at all. It will either go unnoticed, as if she was simply right, and it won't be a blip on the radar - or possibly it could even be spun as a heroic thing... Is it heroic to be a deus ex machina for supplanting Arasou with Toturi?
33 minutes ago, shosuko said:I could see this happening if a Lion or especially a Unicorn sniped a Crane - but I doubt it will come up for Hotaru. I think the writer intended to make the moment a climax... but as I've said before - I don't feel it. I think it's a bit of a flop as far as fiction goes, but I doubt any of this will come up again. The next story with Lion is going to have Toturi telling Tsuko and other people to not fight, as if not fighting was short hand for "tactics", while they lose battle after battle as the writers use the continued losses under the dispassionate Tutori as an example of the loose cannon that Tsuko is, or something...
idk - I'm really jaded on this story. Crane stealing the show, anti-climactic death of a champion... Toturi says it would be dishonorable to actually attack the city they are currently engaged in battle over, and that they should siege it instead (when a siege lead to this battle / opportunity to take the city in the first place)... Speaking of which, this was originally a Lion city anyway... they are "retaking" it...
I doubt Hotaru will get any flack for this action at all. It will either go unnoticed, as if she was simply right, and it won't be a blip on the radar - or possibly it could even be spun as a heroic thing... Is it heroic to be a deus ex machina for supplanting Arasou with Toturi?
The more I think on it I think Totori is going to be forced into a war he doest want to fight.
More drama that way.
More and more I realize people don't know what deus ex machina means in reference to a stories climax.