16 minutes ago, Bayushi Bajie said:

Hmm, I think in this story, Toturi is still older than Arasou and the line where Arasou is stronger/powerful is the reason why the Lion chose Arasou over Toturi needs more extrapolation or a deeper insight in the Arasou-Tsuko dynamic that make it easier for Arasou to dismiss a sound advice from Toturi.

"Arasou's older brother, Toturi, has been summoned form the monastery to answer that call for aid ..." unless Toturi has another brother that's pretty definitive, yeah. I'd heard otherwise before this story, which makes it a bit disappointing.

I hope that's the last we see of any of Toturi's filial baggage. I don't want to revisit the story of his uncle being champion and his father being married off to a Matsu and the girls and boys agreement and yadda-yadda-yadda. It really made the Matsu out to be stupid, petty, and disloyal and the Lion of Toturi's parents' generation having a lack of respect for tradition, IMO.

I think this story could have benefited from something like a flashback of Arasou perhaps coming to see Toturi at the monastery, perhaps told intercut with him quietly watch Arasou on the battlefield, where we got a sense of the two characters, their dynamic, as well as informing readers as to why Toturi was passed over, and his atypical personality compared to other Lions. Perhaps they even have a conversation over a game, where Toturi maneuvers Arasou into a losing situation with Arasou not able to realize it until the end, not only contrasting the two but also foreshadowing Arasou's own fate.

1 minute ago, Tetsuro said:

I think this story could have benefited from something like a flashback of Arasou perhaps coming to see Toturi at the monastery, perhaps told intercut with him quietly watch Arasou on the battlefield, where we got a sense of the two characters, their dynamic, as well as informing readers as to why Toturi was passed over, and his atypical personality compared to other Lions. Perhaps they even have a conversation over a game, where Toturi maneuvers Arasou into a losing situation with Arasou not able to realize it until the end, not only contrasting the two but also foreshadowing Arasou's own fate.

Perhaps they can still do this for future fiction.

3 minutes ago, Tetsuro said:

I think this story could have benefited from something like a flashback of Arasou perhaps coming to see Toturi at the monastery, perhaps told intercut with him quietly watch Arasou on the battlefield, where we got a sense of the two characters, their dynamic, as well as informing readers as to why Toturi was passed over, and his atypical personality compared to other Lions. Perhaps they even have a conversation over a game, where Toturi maneuvers Arasou into a losing situation with Arasou not able to realize it until the end, not only contrasting the two but also foreshadowing Arasou's own fate.

A game of Go or Shogi would've been appropriate, yes. Arasou's loss due to aggressive play and a remark about how play like Toturi's infuriates Tsuko-chan would've been perfect foreshadowing.

It might have also been nice for us to feel like they had a brotherly or at least friendly relationship so we can feel Toturi being upset about his brother's death has more gravity.

Heck, you could even have had a momentary flashback to Hotaru and Toturi first meeting or even just a snippet of their friendship in the moment between when Toturi locks eyes with her and when the first arrow strikes Arasou.

You can even push back the "being passed over" part of the Arasou flashback to the end, to juxtapose Toturi as the new clan champion.

1. Mari Murdock is apparently on the FFG ST! This is good news to me, because she was part of the new AEG ST that barely got a chance to do their thing, and I liked the work she put in.

2. The Crane remain narrative hogs. Crane delenda est. Although it was interesting to see Hotaru in Kachiko's spot from the Crane fiction- the apparently-in-control member of another Clan tying the protagonist's heart in knots.

3. It would seem, based upon our sample size of two entire fictions, that these intro tales are less about letting the featured Clan really "shine," and more about showing off their fault lines and insecurities. Hotaru's grappling with her inadequacies (real or imagined), while Toturi does the same. Now of course, whoever's next will prove me 100% wrong by showing, I dunno, Kachiko and Shoju merrily waltzing as their enemies burn, but...

4. Some rough expository edges could still use some sanding. This tale, in particular, seemed to be more about name-dropping the Lion's command structure- which is nothing but fan service to old grognards, since their names are mostly irrelevant to their actions, and utterly meaningless to new readers- than in really establishing who the Lion are.

5. Tsuko still annoys me. This is a feature, not a bug.

6. Really wasn't too wild about Toturi last time, and still not that big on the guy- as others have said, it might have been vastly more interesting to have HIM get killed, and have Arasou plunge the Lion into a hideous total war with the Crane, despite the political difficulties involved.

3 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Crane delenda est.

Your Crane-hating never ceases to entertain me. I know our clan is not exactly fan-favourite, but your ability to include Crane-hate in every post is amazing.

Just now, Doji Makoto said:

Your Crane-hating never ceases to entertain me. I know our clan is not exactly fan-favourite, but your ability to include Crane-hate in every post is amazing.

I'm making up for all those years the Mantis thought THEY were my least-favorite.

And I like to think that my hating them for meta-narrative reasons is a little different from the usual Crane hate...

1 minute ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

And I like to think that my hating them for meta-narrative reasons is a little different from the usual Crane hate...

True that

1 hour ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

Honestly, I feel like I probably would have been happier.

Having Toturi giving advice, it be ignored and his brother dying because of it does essentially nothing to create a character arc.

In fact, it potentially hinders a character arc because he was completely right.

If Arasou had made the call to charge and gotten his hesitant (and wiser) brother killed because of it, it could have signaled the beginning of an arc that would cause a change in him from the hot blooded military commander that he is to a more thoughtful Akodo-esque tactician like his brother was.

Too often, I feel like stories nowadays forget that the point of a story, especially a character driven story, is to show the change in a person as a result of a major conflict.

How is Toturi going to change over the course of this story? He warned his brother, was right and is now more entrenched in his beliefs than ever.

I dunno. This coming from someone who doesn't write for a living. I just figure you want to show characters grow over time. Toturi seemed like he was already fully developed as soon as we heard his name.

Being right isn't everything. Toturi already has the tactical ability, true, but does he have the charisma and people skills to actually lead his clan, especially when his tactics aren't really appreciated by all of them? I actually think this shows that the different clan champions will be flawed (and thus grow) in vastly different ways.

1 hour ago, SavageTofu said:

Was I the only one disappointed that Matsu Tsuko didn't kill Hotaru?

Now that would be interesting, if FFG killed off all the initial Clan Champions before the game even released. XD

22 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

It would seem, based upon our sample size of two entire fictions, that these intro tales are less about letting the featured Clan really "shine," and more about showing off their fault lines and insecurities. Hotaru's grappling with her inadequacies (real or imagined), while Toturi does the same. Now of course, whoever's next will prove me 100% wrong by showing, I dunno, Kachiko and Shoju merrily waltzing as their enemies burn, but...

This is, I feel, the most important part of the new fictions, and something I was hoping was intended after the Live Q&As mentioned that they wanted to focus on character-centric stories.

I like my protagonists like I like my gold-mended dishes/vases: flawed. (Kintsugi reference, for those interested in looking up on Wikipedia a cool Japanese tradition.)

Wow called that one.

Also, I hope the author reads this.

It might seem I'm nitpicking about the disconnect of the characters in this fiction, I think you did a good job for the introduction of the Lion..it might not sound satisfactory among the old guards but I appreciate the nod to us with namedrops even though newcomers might be confused and overwhelmed with the number of named personality here. You did a good job of fleshing out Hotaru from the last fic too.

Domo, appreciated it and more power to you.

1 hour ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

Not necessarily. Remember Doji Satsume held off on naming his successor when he was Emerald Champion and had to be talked into proclaiming Hotaru his successor by his two brothers-in-law. He might have originally planned to have Hotaru marry Totori in order to make it much harder for the Lion to war with the Crane (fixing the mess with Toshi Ranbo might have been part of the planned marriage agreement) and Kuwanan might have been his original planned successor.

No, Satsume held off resigning as Clan Champion (whereas he was also Emerald Champion) to let Hotaru take the mantle, not designing her as successor.

51 minutes ago, mlund said:

I hope that's the last we see of any of Toturi's filial baggage. I don't want to revisit the story of his uncle being champion and his father being married off to a Matsu and the girls and boys agreement and yadda-yadda-yadda. It really made the Matsu out to be stupid, petty, and disloyal and the Lion of Toturi's parents' generation having a lack of respect for tradition, IMO.

But that was sort of the point; the Matsu of the modern times are only a bad imitation of what they're supposed to be. They've grown arrogant and self-righteous. It was more-or-less the reason Matsu chose Toturi as the Second Lion Thunder, even though he was everything the modern Matsu hate, because Toturi remembered Bushido where Tsuko forsook it in her selfish hatred of Toturi. Matsu was literally slapping her own family in the face. "See this guy you hate? The guy the emperor dishonored? The guy who loved a geisha and was shamed for it? The guy you blame for the emperor's death? He's a better samurai than ALL of you put together, you jackasses!"

I would like to see, for once, a Matsu that's a positive example of their family while still showing their trademark traits. A protagonist-material Matsu.

That's a Crane victory. Retreat or not, they killed a Clan Champion. That is a huge loss to morale and clearly cause for dissension within the ranks. There is a hint of a Matsu Tsuko/Akodo Toturi conflict that could split the Lion.

Just now, Samurai Fox said:

But that was sort of the point; the Matsu of the modern times are only a bad imitation of what they're supposed to be.

There's a lot of that going around in the Empire... and it hearkens back to one of the major headaches the original story bequeathed us-

Crab allied with the Shadowlands because Strong.

Crane, despite supposedly being adept politicians, having no actual allies.

Phoenix using more maho-related mojo than anyone not directly allied with the Shadowlands (yes, they had compelling narrative reasons to open the Black Scrolls, but I will live and die by the fact that they did so in an incredibly foolish manner- especially since Kaede clearly knew better and, you know, didn't directly participate, and whaddya know, that worked out pretty well for her).

Mindless Matsu butchers, incapable of understanding any precept of Bushido that doesn't involve getting mad and screaming at people.

Dragon who are all but mindlessly obedient to the inscrutable orders of their puppetmaster, making their ideals of enlightenment extremely suspect.

Scorpion making bold moves and assuming they'd have support (because, you know, they're so trustworthy)

Unicorn... well, they were barely in the original narrative, so...

4 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

There's a lot of that going around in the Empire... and it hearkens back to one of the major headaches the original story bequeathed us-

That was one of the best storytelling parts of the game; aside from Toturi, Togashi-no-Kami, Toku, Isawa Kaede, and Kakita Toshimoko, there were no real heroes in Rokugan. Everyone was a jerk.

6 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Crab allied with the Shadowlands because Strong.

Kisada was so consumed with strength and ingratitude to the Empire that he did the opposite of what the Crab stood for generation after generation.

7 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Crane, despite supposedly being adept politicians, having no actual allies.

Doji Satsume was an arrogant jerk who abused the post of Emerald Champion like almost no Crane ever before, while Hoturi was only interested in bedding Kachiko again.

8 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Phoenix using more maho-related mojo than anyone not directly allied with the Shadowlands (yes, they had compelling narrative reasons to open the Black Scrolls, but I will live and die by the fact that they did so in an incredibly foolish manner- especially since Kaede clearly knew better and, you know, didn't directly participate, and whaddya know, that worked out pretty well for her).

The Phoenix's arrogance was so great that they literally thought themselves above spiritual corruption, when they had accomplished very little during their rule compared to past Masters.

10 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Mindless Matsu butchers, incapable of understanding any precept of Bushido that doesn't involve getting mad and screaming at people.

Tsuko literally wanted to kill every person wearing blue on the planet, commander of the Emperor be damned. Followed shortly by half the Lion joining the Tainted Emperor possessed by Fu Leng because it was easier than admitting they were wrong in the first place.

11 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Dragon who are all but mindlessly obedient to the inscrutable orders of their puppetmaster, making their ideals of enlightenment extremely suspect.

Silence Blasphemer! Togashi Yokuni and his Dragon were the only force aside from Toturi actually stopping the Empire from being destroyed.

12 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Scorpion making bold moves and assuming they'd have support (because, you know, they're so trustworthy)

Oddly, I find that happens often with dishonorable sneaky ninja folk...they think they so cool and invincible that things should just go their way.

13 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Unicorn... well, they were barely in the original narrative, so...

Who are they again, and are they important?

4 minutes ago, Samurai Fox said:

That was one of the best storytelling parts of the game; aside from Toturi, Togashi-no-Kami, Toku, Isawa Kaede, and Kakita Toshimoko, there were no real heroes in Rokugan. Everyone was a jerk.

I'm bolding your master of sock puppet Championships because my god, that guy was the biggest jerk around- the master of pointlessly cryptic and obtuse actions, incapable of providing a solution when providing a new problem was available, a cretin who kept his followers in internal exile, then told them to go play with the other kids.

He's no more a hero than the non-Tsuke members of the Elemental Council. Less so than Tadaka, who had the excuse of limited human perceptions to explain his folly.

10 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

'm bolding your master of sock puppet Championships because my god, that guy was the biggest jerk around- the master of pointlessly cryptic and obtuse actions, incapable of providing a solution when providing a new problem was available, a cretin who kept his followers in internal exile, then told them to go play with the other kids.

He's no more a hero than the non-Tsuke members of the Elemental Council. Less so than Tadaka, who had the excuse of limited human perceptions to explain his folly.

And this is why you're a Phoenix and I'm a Dragon, friend. Haha, I loved Togashi-no-Kami's story-line. Being able to see any future but his own and thereby withdrawing from the world, only acting when the future was just too terrible to accept, preparing everything for the Second Day of Thunder, and everything else was what MADE the Dragon for me. The dynamics of future, fate, choice, and Togashi having to bare the burden of being the fulcrum of it all. I loved it; the Dragon are the tools, authors, and architects of destiny.
Togashi wasn't nice. Togashi wasn't cruel. Togashi was a man setting up the chessboard (and he was a piece in the game, too), and that means seeing things in the long, long run, and accepting that some eggs gotta break if you want an omelet.
Togashi's goal was the save Rokugan...no matter what awful cost had to be paid.
I also loved those few times when Togashi's human side was explored (his secret rooting for the Scorpion to win the coup or his interactions with his wife's ghost). He was flawed, but as Shinsei said, without those flaws, we'd find the kami too inhuman to understand.

Haha, we're all free to like or dislike anyone we choose. That's the best part of this game, in many ways.

PSA: his name is Toturi. Not Tutor-i, not Toto-ri, To-tu-ri.

This has been a public service announcement.

1 minute ago, Nickciufi said:

PSA: his name is Toturi. Not Tutor-i, not Toto-ri, To-tu-ri.

This has been a public service announcement.

Do you know how many things we pronounce wrong? The western habit of putting hard emphasis on vowels means we butcher most words/names.

Just now, Kakita Onimaru said:

Do you know how many things we pronounce wrong? The western habit of putting hard emphasis on vowels means we butcher most words/names.

Ruh-KOOG-in!

This story was AWESOME! A bit too much name dropping but it elicited emotion, which is the mark of a great piece!

I hope they don't make Tsuko a rabid dog again. Let's get some nuance into the Matsu clan!