16 minutes ago, Zazaa said:

May be that extra munitions will be small ships only one day, that would tame Jumpmasters just a bit more, make it one to two points more expensive with Torpedos. It's not enough, but there might be something like that coming to the direction of JM5K's..

Does nothing to bumpmasters or manaroo, which are a large portion of the jumpmasters out there. And you could still fly triple uboats with only 1 torpedo per ship. I had plenty of games where ships don't get both off anyway when I was playing em.

6 hours ago, jmswood said:

Making Yoda the same as Palp is lazy game design and thematically inaccurate. Fail on two counts.

Yoda crew: "At the start of the Activation Phase, choose a friendly ship you may. When defending that ship is, roll a number of dice equal to the number of attack dice that ship may. When attacking that ship is, roll additional attack dice that ship cannot."

(" A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack ." - Yoda)

Nice idea. Or:

Yoda, Crew: At the start of the combat phase, if you have not performed any actions this round and you do not have any stress tokens, then you may choose a friendly ship that is in the arc of an enemy ship at R1-2. The chosen ship may perform a free action.

You see the whole board state and when a friendly ship (or Yoda's ship) is in danger of being attacked, make an informed decision and take the best action.

7 minutes ago, pickirk01 said:

Nice idea. Or:

Yoda, Crew: At the start of the combat phase, if you have not performed any actions this round and you do not have any stress tokens, then you may choose a friendly ship that is in the arc of an enemy ship at R1-2. The chosen ship may perform a free action.

You see the whole board state and when a friendly ship (or Yoda's ship) is in danger of being attacked, make an informed decision and take the best action.

For Yoda...

All friendly ships with range 1-3 may change one blank to a [focus] when attacking or defending.

That might be to much... Not sure. But thematically it works because unlike Palp Yoda doesn't play favorites and he sets people on the right path but doesn't directly give them the result they wanted.

2 hours ago, Princezilla said:

New counters are the best way, things that make running it riskier. Maybe a missile/torp that does bonus damage to large based ships or let's you remove an upgrade if they hit. Or a buff to swarms which in the past have been one of the best checks to turret ships. My point being that the sky falling retoritic is overblown and it's always better to fix things by adding more options elsewhere then removing them from something. Fundimentally altering the way models play and totally removing certain options is old GW territory and it's never a good line to cross.

Boost instead of nerf. Possible. But unless handled carefully and capped, the power creep of it could do more harm than a nerf.

2 hours ago, Zazaa said:

Not sure if people are already forgetting after few months how horrible Palpatine was, it wasn't even fun anymore, now it is less powerful, but still playable in X-Wing. Too much clinging on one card, no card should be that strong, it is better that combinations of upgrades, ships and pilots make strong squads. I hope that people would adjust already the nerfs that have been made some months ago..

So, people who legitimately enjoyed flying with Palp and/or against him are just plain wrong? Saying that it wasn't even fun is dangerously one sided.

Palp is fine. He's still a valid option now, just not obviously better than the alternatives. Keeping his old effect intact and adding R3 requirement could have actually been more of a nerf than the actual change. One of Palp's most powerful aspects is that he can be used just where he's needed even if the ship carrying him is nowhere near that place. From my experience when flying RAC + Ace it's immensely useful that even when RAC is away from the action he can still contribute by making the ace that much stronger. This does happen a lot actually - initially because you might use RAC as a decoy and attack with the ace as the decimator escapes from range. Later on RAC will frequently have to turn around to get back in the action and in the late game he often just runs when he's low HP and trying to avoid destruction. In all these situations he's still very valuable even if he can't take a single shot at the enemy, precisely because of Palp.

I suppose things might be different for commonwealth defenders, which are more likely to remain close to the lambda for as long as the latter is alive, but it's a matter of preference and/or build. If Palp needed to be nerfed, I'm actually happy with the change they made rather than going for the range restriction. I also see no particular reason to reverse the Palp nerf although I do admit that without him the Empire seems to be falling behind in the large tournaments.

8 hours ago, jmswood said:

Making Yoda the same as Palp is lazy game design and thematically inaccurate. Fail on two counts.

Yoda crew: "At the start of the Activation Phase, choose a friendly ship you may. When defending that ship is, roll a number of dice equal to the number of attack dice that ship may. When attacking that ship is, roll additional attack dice that ship cannot."

("A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack." - Yoda)

First I thought it was awesome, then I realised that Biggs was about to go to a whole other level of broken.

52 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Boost instead of nerf. Possible. But unless handled carefully and capped, the power creep of it could do more harm than a nerf.

So, people who legitimately enjoyed flying with Palp and/or against him are just plain wrong? Saying that it wasn't even fun is dangerously one sided.

Well good overall game experience requires sacrifices from all of us. I'm not really too happy with upcoming nerfs for Scum, nor I'm fan of the old ones, but they obviously need to be done to keep this game more diverse/fun than Palp Aces, Fat Ham or Parattani etc.. At least that is what I believe that FFG is also aiming.

And you are free to do house rules..

14 minutes ago, Zazaa said:

Well good overall game experience requires sacrifices from all of us. I'm not really too happy with upcoming nerfs for Scum, nor I'm fan of the old ones, but they obviously need to be done to keep this game more diverse/fun than Palp Aces, Fat Ham or Parattani etc.. At least that is what I believe that FFG is also aiming.

And you are free to do house rules..

I'm not arguing against that. I'm saying that claims that no one had fun the old way is dangerously revisionist and discounts the preferences of others.

41 minutes ago, Astech said:

First I thought it was awesome, then I realised that Biggs was about to go to a whole other level of broken.

How so? Red Dice creep is invalidating the Rebel's dominantly 1 and 2 AGI defense. In most cases Biggs would be rolling one or two extra green dice without consistent modification. That's a relatively small defensive boost compared to the rate of escalation in the offensive side of the game. It's giving the Rebels one defensive step forward while offense is still taking two steps forward accross the board.

2 minutes ago, jmswood said:

How so? Red Dice creep is invalidating the Rebel's dominantly 1 and 2 AGI defense. In most cases Biggs would be rolling one or two extra green dice without consistent modification. That's a relatively small defensive boost compared to the rate of escalation in the offensive side of the game. It's giving the Rebels one defensive step forward while offense is still taking two steps forward accross the board.

The trouble is that it isn't increasing Rebel diversity - it's keeping them locked in the same pattern as they've always been in. It's a stop-gap measure at best.

3 minutes ago, Astech said:

The trouble is that it isn't increasing Rebel diversity - it's keeping them locked in the same pattern as they've always been in. It's a stop-gap measure at best.

Biggs should have been the first big errata ten waves ago.

While my Yoda suggestion would help Biggs, it might help Rebels enough in general to push Biggs to the sideline more often.

3 minutes ago, jmswood said:

Biggs should have been the first big errata ten waves ago.

While my Yoda suggestion would help Biggs , it might help Rebels enough in general to push Biggs to the sideline more often.

That's true. The trouble with your yoda is it only works for one ship so biggs is the obvious candidate. If it worked on more than one BBBB would be the meta-king.

Biggs should have been made "once per turn" or something of the like.

4 minutes ago, Astech said:

That's true. The trouble with your yoda is it only works for one ship so biggs is the obvious candidate. If it worked on more than one BBBB would be the meta-king.

Biggs should have been made "once per turn" or something of the like.

It might be that in nearish future Biggs will be once per turn or other similar, that would be probably the easiest way to fix him.

3 minutes ago, Zazaa said:

It might be that in nearish future Biggs will be once per turn or other similar, that would be probably the easiest way to fix him.

Biggs Darklighter (25)
When another friendly ship at range 1-2 is declared as the target of an attack, you may suffer 1 critical damage to force the attacker to target you, if able.

So biggs gets a range boost and a 6-time maximum use. I think this solves his biggest problem of never dying.

Biggs should have been the first version of Draw their Fire. "When a friendly ship at range 1 is defending, you may suffer 1 damage to cancel 1 hit or crit result."

Just remember a Yoda crew card should only take up one crew slot because is rather small (Judge me by my size, you do? "Yes Yoda, for gameplay purposes).

Also Yoda in a B-wing would be hilarious. "Cockpit, why rotate it does, Keyan?"

Palps fine, still winning games. Enough tears about losing a crutch

Edit; just noticed it's devolved into more Biggs complaining. Focus fire him down, it's just a T65 X-Wing...

RoV

I think if you reversed the palp nerd it would actually give us a nice balanced meta. The take rate and success rate on imperials is both pretty low, just a little better than rebels in the dead eye days. Palp was never a problem until comboed with the stupidness of defenders. If the tie advanced cant be saved something from that box should be playable.

3 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Boost instead of nerf. Possible. But unless handled carefully and capped, the power creep of it could do more harm than a nerf.

So, people who legitimately enjoyed flying with Palp and/or against him are just plain wrong? Saying that it wasn't even fun is dangerously one sided.

My idea for that was

Mass Produced: Mod, You may not equip this card if your pilot skill is 6 or higher, You may equip an additional modification but you cannot equip any unique cards or cards with a cost of three or greater, -2 points

You can make it Empire and Rebellion only if you want to reflect that they have production resources not really available to a bunch of pirates and thugs.

33 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

I think if you reversed the palp nerd it would actually give us a nice balanced meta. The take rate and success rate on imperials is both pretty low, just a little better than rebels in the dead eye days. Palp was never a problem until comboed with the stupidness of defenders. If the tie advanced cant be saved something from that box should be playable.

Speaking as someone who plays Empire near exclusively, and who didn't enjoy using the Emperor due to personal play-style preferences... He was really not a fun card, an Empire list with no Palp going up against one with him basically always ended in the Palp player's favor. That was why he was in basically every list, because if you wanted to play empire you had two options: Take Palp or get your *** handed to you by someone who took Palp.

4 hours ago, Princezilla said:

Speaking as someone who plays Empire near exclusively, and who didn't enjoy using the Emperor due to personal play-style preferences... He was really not a fun card, an Empire list with no Palp going up against one with him basically always ended in the Palp player's favor. That was why he was in basically every list, because if you wanted to play empire you had two options: Take Palp or get your *** handed to you by someone who took Palp.

Speaking of warping the meta and auto-included pilots, how come Palpatine was nerfed and Biggs has been around 385 Waves? All of the people here who say Palpatine was an auto-include, how come they don´t say anything about Rebel auto-include and how Biggs twists the meta? F%&!"n hypocrites.

23 minutes ago, Pretty Green said:

Speaking of warping the meta and auto-included pilots, how come Palpatine was nerfed and Biggs has been around 385 Waves? All of the people here who say Palpatine was an auto-include, how come they don´t say anything about Rebel auto-include and how Biggs twists the meta? F%&!"n hypocrites.

Nice strawman, I don't think anyone here debates that Biggs is the most overused pilot and that his popularity despite his platform attests to just how broken his ability is.

1 minute ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

Nice strawman, I don't think anyone here debates that Biggs is the most overused pilot and that his popularity despite his platform attests to just how broken his ability is.

So why is it then that "Palpatine was soooo OP and powerful ever and broken" and deserved the nerf, but nothing has been done to Biggs, nor I have any of these people suggesting it?

I´ll tell you why: they are mostly rebel players. Nerfing Palpatine was not about ability being broken.

13 minutes ago, Pretty Green said:

So why is it then that " Palpatine was soooo OP and powerful ever and broken" and deserved the nerf, but nothing has been done to Biggs , nor I have any of these people suggesting it?

I´ll tell you why: they are mostly rebel players. Nerfing Palpatine was not about ability being broken.

Yes it was. At the height of Palp's reign, neither rebels nor scum could hold a candle to double X7s with a Palpshuttle. In comparison, a biggs list (except maybe Kanan-Biggs) is not an "oh crap I'm facing a meta list and have already lost" encounter.

1 minute ago, Pretty Green said:

So why is it then that "Palpatine was soooo OP and powerful ever and broken" and deserved the nerf, but nothing has been done to Biggs, nor I have any of these people suggesting it?

I´ll tell you why: they are mostly rebel players. Nerfing Palpatine was not about ability being broken.

That is just nonsense and dividing your view of game balance into factions will always hamper anyones ability to judge the whole picture.

Palpatine was more powerful than Biggs on a much better frame - for 3 more points you got either the same effect without range one leash or you got to push your already highly efficient ships into absurd levels of jousting efficiency. Ships that also had all the tools for maneuvering. All that with better durability for a worse dial.

There are loads of nerf suggestions for Biggs out there, too. Like making him once per turn or avoidable with Target Locks. More importantly he has been nerfed already, before Palpatine, even with the change to how targeting with secondary weapons works. At the moment only scum can really abuse that unfortunately because of how ridiculous K4 is, but any piece of usefull ordnance can change that depending on its properties.

11 minutes ago, Astech said:

Yes it was. At the height of Palp's reign, neither rebels nor scum could hold a candle to double X7s with a Palpshuttle. In comparison, a biggs list (except maybe Kanan-Biggs) is not an "oh crap I'm facing a meta list and have already lost" encounter.

That´s just not true. Palpatine Defenders did not dominate the competitive scene. See the 2016 results for yourself.