So, I've been playing X-Wing for a while. It took me longer than most to stop blaming/thanking dice for match results, and I've started to understand some basic tactics. I'm actually not bad in the mid-to-late game once the ships have already had the initial clash, assuming I haven't already lost too many of my own ships. I prefer to fly four ship Rebels due to the increase in durability, less reliance on green dice, and the flexibility of having additional ships.

The approach plan however is something I'm still struggling with and typically I'm losing my games in the first few turns. Jousters, such as X-Wings, Scum K-fighters are at a disadvantage on approach. You need to line up right to make sure you put the battle where it needs to be, because the lack of repositioning and a more limited dial means course corrections are very difficult and if you miss your moment you won't get another chance.

Against aces , I tend to do a lose formation to cover multiple arcs. I'm pretty successful here.

Against two ship lists , straight on joust if my opponent will let me. I'm noticing a trend with turrets though that turrets chew me up after we pass and I'm unable to return fire. I'm thinking two ship pairs, slightly separated might work better here, so that as one flight passes the targets, the second flight is able to swing on the enemy's tail.

Alpha strike lists ... meh... still working on this one. Range control, sure... but there has to be something more. I'm terrible at reading people! Trying to lead my opponent through rocks only goes so far... Less maneuverable fighters still can't turn around fast enough if my opponent does something unexpected.

Other Jousting lists ... This depends largely on whether I've got more firepower than my opponent. Obviously, if I've got the numbers, just go straight in... but this also could be a flaw... maneuverability and repositioning for another pass is a bit of an issue!

Anybody for armchair theory on tactics and strategies? What do you do?

I am having the same problem - the only way I can think of (and I dislike it) is bringing biggs - he will die but he can get you in range. Other than that I slow roll and make a big deal of a one straight to victory and follow it up with a three forward and hope. It only works once against most people.

1 minute ago, freakyg3 said:

I am having the same problem - the only way I can think of (and I dislike it) is bringing biggs - he will die but he can get you in range. Other than that I slow roll and make a big deal of a one straight to victory and follow it up with a three forward and hope. It only works once against most people.

Biggs isn't really worth his points in a four ship list unless you're doing VERY fancy flying to force the opponent to split fire, or you've got a very bizarre point spread.

I do find varying my approach speeds help though, and sometimes going in hard off the start seems to be a good plan. Get to your opponent before they're ready...

The problem for generic rebels these days is that FFG has gotten out of hand with dice mod power creep. Rookie Pilot for example is a waste of 21 points (or whatever he costs) when it is so easy nowadays to remove such a ship before it even gets to fire. 2-3 ship builds that run at PS 5+ that can throw fully modified 4 dice attacks just break the game's PS balance and remove 'dog-fighting' from the equation (list building becomes the dominant factor in winning matchups rather than player skill), and a whole slew of pilots are removed from the 'competitively viable pool'.

Ok, enough ranting. That's the state of the game now, so how do you deal with it as a rebel that loves to fly generics?

I think your worst matchup is the 'alpha strike' list. To beat it, I think you need more ships or more control. So basically, you can run b-wings, y-wings and z-95s. ARCs are good too, but tend to be too expensive for 4 ship builds.

List Examples:

'Pre-Panic Attack'

2 Blues (b-wing): ion cannon

1 Blue (b-wing): FCS

1 gold (y-wing): R3-A2 & TLT (title optional, but less needed with the ion)

100

Run the list in a loose formation, but not a box. You don't want all of your b-wings to lose their k-turn access because of getting bunged up by large ships in front of them. If a ship is damaged, use it as a blocker when possible. The ion cannons should always shoot last, and usually you only need them in the opening exchange at Range 3, or when a good ion opportunity presents itself.

Blair Bunke's Swarm

2 blues (b-wing): FCS

1 gold (y-wing): R3-A2, TLT & BTL-A4

2 bandits (z-95): s-thread tracers & guidance chips

100

Blair flies in very close formation, but will break it later on. You can fly it close or loose, whatever you prefer. Z-95s in front, of course.

'Rebel Jank'

Roark (hwk): TLT & operations specialist

Biggs (t-65): R4-D6 & integrated astro

gold (y-wing): R3-A2, TLT & BTL-A4

'Zeb' (attack shuttle): Jan Ors

100

So the trick to this list is abusing the combo of Roark's ability + Ops Spec. With that plus Jan in the list, Biggs should have Focus+Evade every turn. But honestly, there's many ways to build this list. The 'core' is Roark and Biggs, as above. There's lots of variations you can do with the last 46 points.

Now as to flying against different kinds of lists, its honestly very difficult to give a run-down on 'best practices'. A lot of it comes down to what kind of list it is (so many variations) and what kind of opponent you're up against. Basically, I find that there are two kinds of players: aggressive & cautious. I try to get a feel for which type my opponent is during the first one or two turns (although some players are tricksy). Knowing which type you're up against makes it easier to predict what they are going to do...

31 minutes ago, blade_mercurial said:

Now as to flying against different kinds of lists, its honestly very difficult to give a run-down on 'best practices'. A lot of it comes down to what kind of list it is (so many variations) and what kind of opponent you're up against. Basically, I find that there are two kinds of players: aggressive & cautious. I try to get a feel for which type my opponent is during the first one or two turns (although some players are tricksy). Knowing which type you're up against makes it easier to predict what they are going to do...

Indeed. True. I was thinking about breaking it down into arc dodgers and the like but stopped myself for this very reason. There is so much variation out there that there is no perfect answer. I'd rather have a chalk board to discuss more specific scenarios visually, or better have somebody I can meet up with regularly to discuss strategies, but mainly I'm limited to forum only for theory stuff. There's been a lack of good strategy talk recently...

There's so much stuff about this that it's hard to get a handle on to discuss in any systematic way.

Just one very minor example: arc-dodging a joust with barrel roll. Normally, when we think "joust," we think closing the distance directly. E.g., a straight move, once we're on trajectory. But if you have barrel roll, you will often be better off with a bank, because the angle will often allow you to barrel roll out of being shot, while still having a shot.

(This, BTW, is why double-repositioning arc-dodgers ruled the game for so long: they don't have to set this up on approach ... they can just do it themselves, with perfect knowledge of the board-state.)

But that's arc-dodging, not jousting, right? Well, no, because if you're playing someone who knows to do this, or is just in a position to do it due to the approach, as a pure jousting list you can often also counter it by banking.

The idea is that pure jousters usually want to be parallel, nose-to-nose, while semi-jousters often what to be at an angle. But then you can go down the rabbit-hole of clear K-turn lanes, and on and on and on.

The reason it's not talked about much is just that there's so much that could be discussed.

This is just what I try to do...

When I'm facing jousters (wih jousters), I try not to get fancy. I usually aim for the following

1. Start at the board edge and stay there for as long as possible, it might prevent my opponent from k-turning behind me.

2. Approach in a lane where I can freely K- turn.

3. Fly in a very tight formation to make concentrating fire easier. The pin-wheel is great for a 4 ship rebel build, see https://teamcovenant.com/general/understanding-the-pinwheel-formation

4. K-turn as soon as I can. But I will not attempt it if I risk getting blocked.

5. Block my opponents K-turn if I think he will go for it.

6. If I have repositioning, I try very hard not to use it. Focus!

When facing higher PS Alpha strike (with jousters), there simply isn't much to be done imo. Usually, I will just take an offered joust, per the above guidelines. If I strongly believe I will lose a straight up joust, I can basically only see one option, and that is to split my forces. The objective is to guess correctly which faction of my forces the opponent will taget, and run away with that one at the right time and simultaeously bring my other ships in to take uncontested shots at the opponent. This almost never works.

When facing aces (with jousters) there are a few options to choose from.

1. If my opponent approaches from multiple directions, and he will, the bait and switch move is a good one to remeber. It works like this: Move as if to take down the biggest threat in you opponents list, but that turn when the engagement will happen, instead hard turn towards another target, usually aming to block that ship and set up mutiple arcs. If things go perfectly you will handily kill that one ship, while the other ship runs away. A good way to set this up is to start in a loose formation in one corner and move in towards the central part of the playingfield, in a good jousting lane. I find that if I need to run over a rock to get the block, even better, as my opponent is less likely to see it happen.

2. Another option is to refuse an engagement on the opponents terms. I find that I can usually get favourable engagements by simply setting up in a corner and just going really slowly to the other side, and if no one approaches, K-turn and repeat, always keeping close to the edge. By doing this I seek to minimize the space the opponet can attack from, making it easier to set up arcs.

3. Spreading out is another option, making blocking easier. The difficulty lies in making sure I can line mutiple shots up one the same target. Spreading out firing arcs (hoping to get some arcs on one of the slippery ace) is a trap imo. Only getting one or two 3 atk rolls on an unblocked ptl, autothruster interceptor will not get the job done. So a spread out opening, i find, takes more skill to sucessfully levrage against aces.

When facing PWT:s (with jousters) I really want to attack on my own terms. I try to litter the central part of the playingfield with rocks and then set up in one of the corners. Especially if I have boost, i find the fingers four formation works nicely vs. PWT:s, as it is well suited to turning around and giving chase, see http://www.backtodials.com/a-wing-ace-the-finger-four-formation-by-jonathan-scott/ . I almost always stay close to the board edge untill the PWT player comes for me. After 1-3 turns of firing, I usually find myself in a postion where it is no longer feasible to chase the opponent. Disengage! It took me a ong time to learn this. Never attempt to follow a PWT from a bad position. I will instead break off and get my formation back in order. Then reengage on my own terms.

Alpha strikes are brutal, particularly from triple torpedo scouts with their turrets. I haven't cracked that nut just yet, but my working theory is to try to offer a juicy sacrificial lamb while my other ships set up to attack with my own Alpha strike from outside of the enemy arc--if possible.

20 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

But if you have barrel roll, you will often be better off with a bank, because the angle will often allow you to barrel roll out of being shot, while still having a shot.

What was that again about the ~22° setup or something like this? The idea is that you set your ships at a slight angle, and then bank instead of straigt.

Maybe someone remembers where that was posted/shown/discussed?

Head on is actually a bad tactic for even a jousting list. If you take the direct line to them, you're left with the K turn as the only way to continue the fight. And as Rebels, you mostly only have one choice, if that isn't available, you're out of the fight for what seems like eternity... And during which time you will have lost the match. Ideally, you want to force an angled approach so you can do a hard turn to continue pursuit. This can be accomplished by fighting in the rocks so straight on isn't an option. You also want to use your superior numbers to force your opponent into a bad location. Getting 3 R1 modified shots on an actionless target is better than getting 4 R1 modified and eating a R1 super modified shot. That can also help prevent the boosting out of arc issue that a lot of jousting lists have to deal with.

In my experience, running all of your ships in a single block formation tends to only be worthwhile if you really need them to be in range of each-other for some sort of ability (Howlrunner, Biggs, S-Thread Tracers, Jess Pava, etc.). Otherwise, using multiple maneuvering elements gives you better control of the board. With a single block formation, your opponent can often kite you around and try to throw you off balance by forcing you to navigate your block through/around obstacles, waiting until you are off balance to engage. Multiple elements working together and approaching from different angles allow you to set up a pincer where you can create a kill zone, threaten blocks over a larger area, cover more lanes and generally give yourself better k-turn/pursuit options for more of your ships. This requires a good sense of timing and range control - you need to keep your elements close enough together to always be in a position to support each-other and keep multiple travel lanes open for each element so they can react to your opponents maneuvers.

A few things I keep in mind:

Against ships with arcs that matter, I like to try and approach from angles where they have the fewest movement options. So head-on is bad, because they usually have 4 speeds of maneuvers to pick from to go forward and keep you in arc. Lots of ships have only 2 banks or turns available, and they're usually only one speed different, so their next movement becomes much more predictable if thrive and to keep you in arc.

Against alpha strikers I like to approach through rocks. The extra defense for an obstacle is small, but it can buy you a turn. The restrictions placed on movement make things like K4 more restricted. Movement restrictions also make blocking easier, which is important for jousters.

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Against alpha strikers I like to approach through rocks. The extra defense for an obstacle is small, but it can buy you a turn. The restrictions placed on movement make things like K4 more restricted. Movement restrictions also make blocking easier, which is important for jousters.

Would you still approach through the rocks if you don't have a lot of re-positioning ability? It seems fairly counter-intuitive as it really limits your own dial, but I'll admit I have tried it at times. Not sure sometimes if my move is smart or foolish. (I guess the difference here is if it works - I'm smart. If it fails, well, it was pretty foolish.)

3 hours ago, Biophysical said:

A few things I keep in mind:

Against ships with arcs that matter, I like to try and approach from angles where they have the fewest movement options. So head-on is bad, because they usually have 4 speeds of maneuvers to pick from to go forward and keep you in arc. Lots of ships have only 2 banks or turns available, and they're usually only one speed different, so their next movement becomes much more predictable if thrive and to keep you in arc.

Against alpha strikers I like to approach through rocks. The extra defense for an obstacle is small, but it can buy you a turn . The restrictions placed on movement make things like K4 more restricted. Movement restrictions also make blocking easier, which is important for jousters.

This.

I like to set up rocks based on what makes most negative issues with my opponents strengths and best perceived strategy. Then, I like to move straight towards a rock with movement 1, then again with movement 2 and barrel roll to the side for the opening engagement attack or protection from an alpha strike. Remember, rocks are our friends.

15 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Would you still approach through the rocks if you don't have a lot of re-positioning ability? It seems fairly counter-intuitive as it really limits your own dial, but I'll admit I have tried it at times. Not sure sometimes if my move is smart or foolish. (I guess the difference here is if it works - I'm smart. If it fails, well, it was pretty foolish.)

Yes, some ships I fly don't really like asteroid fields. In that instance, if I'm flying T-65s lets say, I make sure my rocks are well spaced from theirs. With practice (I still haven't perfected it) even non-repositioning ships can get around and use asteroids to get arcs, break arcs or protect yourself as you set up three moves ahead, hoping your adversary bites. Interestingly, the newly vamped Karaxeraxeraxe will gain lots of flying abilities with the cheap to no-cost additions of vectored thrusters and engine upgrade, too bad that set wasn't for T-65s I know....but Karaxeraxeraxes are fun-ish to fly in games even now, better then, even though most casual Star Wars fans think they are Star Trek ships.

2 hours ago, LagJanson said:

Would you still approach through the rocks if you don't have a lot of re-positioning ability? It seems fairly counter-intuitive as it really limits your own dial, but I'll admit I have tried it at times. Not sure sometimes if my move is smart or foolish. (I guess the difference here is if it works - I'm smart. If it fails, well, it was pretty foolish.)

I would. If you're flying quad Rebels, your dials are already restricted just because of what they are. If you're flying against aces or Scum Alpha, the asteroids are actually having a much more limiting effect on their movement than yours. You're dragging them down to your level. You might need to plan your approach a little more carefully than a ship with Barrel Roll, though.

Another thing to consider is that you can aim for the asteroids to be about 1.5 range bands apart. This give small bases a lot of room to maneuver, but make it tougher on large bases. A further side effect of this is that it makes it easy to incorporate one of their obstacles into the obstacle formation, and the whole constellation takes up more of the board, so it will have a larger influence on the game.

Finally, remember that one of your 4 ships losing an action because of going over a rock is not ideal, but not that big of a deal, especially if it's a blocker that list the action. A ship that's part of a 2-ship list is hurt much more by losing its actions, or even a shot because of landing on a rock. You should try to think about these things not in terms of how much a situation hurts you, but how much it hurts you in relation to how much it hurts them.