I was 'playing' with the army builder last might, and encountered with the following: Squall-valen rudor-3x YV666 vs 4 defender. They are very close in dmg output against squads, First Pack has seems more resilient costing 3 Point less, but slower, while defenders provide more dmg against ships, faster, but more expensive. Whats your opinion, which is Better?

Ruthless strategist seems a Good choice with yv-s, and fc is a sort of no-brainer too for the Carrier. Also, kallus... And probaly quad laser batteries.

YVs are too slow and have heavy. I have never seen YVs run in a serious list for being over-costed and useless as a fighter screen.

I have used YVs in a lot if successful lists, but they all have Ruthless Strategists, and sometimes FCT.

Due to hvy, they need ither squads to lock down enemies. They also work well against slow ships, not at all vs fast ships. Rogue gives you another option when activating squads and grit came in handy more often than you would think.

But since the Defender came out its hard to choose YVs over Defenders, unless you have multiple Ruthless Strategists.

5 minutes ago, Hastatior said:

YVs are too slow and have heavy. I have never seen YVs run in a serious list for being over-costed and useless as a fighter screen.

Squall lets them move an additional 2 and Valen negates the Heavy when all of them are engaged.

I suppose it could work with Squall, except that Rudor is the only one locking down enemy squads. You would need to be sure he is never engaged alone by more than one enemy squadron. 4 Defenders my be more expensive, but they will be a ton easier to use.

I think the Defenders are the better way to go in this case. Heavy and no bomber makes them inferior for 1 point less IMO. Even with Valen, your opponent has to maneuver around 1 squadron instead of 4.

Take Ruthless and Flight Controllers with 4 Tie/D. Kallus on the red AA and you will rip through your opponent's squadrons. Toss in Maarek and Mauler, EHB on Squall and bank a squad token first round to have the ultimate alpha strike. 2 auto damage on everything, long range AA, and 5 Tie/D boosted via FC.

And you can attack ships.

2 minutes ago, cynanbloodbane said:

I suppose it could work with Squall, except that Rudor is the only one locking down enemy squads. You would need to be sure he is never engaged alone by more than one enemy squadron. 4 Defenders my be more expensive, but they will be a ton easier to use.

Better antiship as well. Can now use sloane as admiral if you want.

8 hours ago, Hastatior said:

YVs are too slow and have heavy. I have never seen YVs run in a serious list for being over-costed and useless as a fighter screen.

Why not add Valen to the defenders

why is this even a question? 3 Defenders and Valen is vastly superior to 4 Defenders or VR and 3 YV's. Also faster and more capable of alpha striking a ship or squad.

4 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

why is this even a question? 3 Defenders and Valen is vastly superior to 4 Defenders or VR and 3 YV's. Also faster and more capable of alpha striking a ship or squad.

For better understanding:

Squall-Valen-3YV vs 4 Defender

speed: 4,5 vs 5

hull: 7 vs 6

cost: 61 vs 64

avg dmg against ships: 2,25 vs 3

avg dmg against squads: 9,87vs 10

rogue+grit

Heavy is negated by Valen.

Oh that's the Valen effect.

Not quite, speed on YV666 is 2. So the Defenders get to lock down any squads before Valen goes

2 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

Not quite, speed on YV666 is 2. So the Defenders get to lock down any squads before Valen goes

This is why Squall is in the equation. 2x speed 2 is Between 4 and 5. Not that immobile id say

4 hours ago, Coldhands said:

For better understanding:

Squall-Valen-3YV vs 4 Defender

speed: 4,5 vs 5

hull: 7 vs 6

cost: 61 vs 64

avg dmg against ships: 2,25 vs 3

avg dmg against squads: 9,87vs 10

rogue+grit

Heavy is negated by Valen.

Yeah but where is the comparison between those two situations and 3 defenders and Valen?

18 hours ago, Marinealver said:

No idea why you would post a video of a rebel v rebel match when we are discussing YV-666s...

10 minutes ago, Hastatior said:

No idea why you would post a video of a rebel v rebel match when we are discussing YV-666s...

Probably mixed up with YT-1300s which are also speed 2.

1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:

Probably mixed up with YT-1300s which are also speed 2.

Probably. YT-1300s are great, with escort and no heavy they are like having a fat dude that can't punch sitting on you. So annoying if your intel is focused down or elsewhere. YVs need help from Valen and instantly are less point efficient for the same effect.

10 hours ago, Coldhands said:

This is why Squall is in the equation. 2x speed 2 is Between 4 and 5. Not that immobile id say

But if your goal is to tie up enemy squads, the Defenders are much better at doing the same job. They launch out at 2+5, and pre-position so that Valen sits in the cage where he can't be flanked from any direction. They trade one point of health and cost one extra to lose heavy and get all the speed, plus bomber.

That said, if you don't care about heavy, your better option still is Valen and 3 Lambdas. The Lambdas pull quadruple duty as ablative hull for Valen, decent anti squadron with their black dice, relay to ensure Valen is never left deactivated, and strategic to make token objectives a nightmare for your opponent.

1 hour ago, thecactusman17 said:

But if your goal is to tie up enemy squads, the Defenders are much better at doing the same job. They launch out at 2+5, and pre-position so that Valen sits in the cage where he can't be flanked from any direction. They trade one point of health and cost one extra to lose heavy and get all the speed, plus bomber.

That said, if you don't care about heavy, your better option still is Valen and 3 Lambdas. The Lambdas pull quadruple duty as ablative hull for Valen, decent anti squadron with their black dice, relay to ensure Valen is never left deactivated, and strategic to make token objectives a nightmare for your opponent.

Nice, never considered the Lambda spam. Yet another reason the YV will likely never leave the box

32 minutes ago, Hastatior said:

Nice, never considered the Lambda spam. Yet another reason the YV will likely never leave the box

A mix of Lambdas and YVs would be better if you're going that route. The YV-666 does have superior firepower.

4 hours ago, Valca said:

A mix of Lambdas and YVs would be better if you're going that route. The YV-666 does have superior firepower.

lambda has superior relay, and superior not-suck. if you want firepower brind defenders