So if you had a Raider with Quad Laser Turrets (QLT) and the Impetuous title, after making the Counter attack, can it use the Impetuous title to attack again?

I've looked at past threads about this but they were more concerned about Ackbar and Devastator and there wasn't a conclusion.

Appreciate the effort. Thanks!

No, the attack step is during a ship's activation, so you can only use the hability of Impetuos during it's own activation and not for a counter

This falls under the same area that Ard posited about using a Conc Fire on QLT shots.

Technically RAW says you can do so. And the best part is you could use it every single time you Counter.

#Disagree.

Not allowed at all.

It is after the attack step .

Not

after an attack .

And it is instead referencing the attack step of activation - Where "Attack" IS a Step; (Its Step 2, and even numbered as such).

RRG PAGE 11 - "SHIP ACTIVATION":

Ship Activation

Ships are activated during the Ship Phase. When a ship is activated, its owner proceeds through the following steps.

1. Reveal Command Dial: Reveal the ship’s top command dial. Then either place the dial next to the ship in the play area or spend the dial to place the corresponding command token next to the ship in the play area.

2. Attack: Perform up to two attacks with the ship from different hull zones.

3. Execute Maneuver: Move the ship at its current speed.

• After a ship activates, place its revealed command dial faceup on its ship card to track that it has activated. • Each ship can activate only once per round.

Not major fussed on this.

But doesn't a counter follow all the steps of an attack?

Doesn't Counter already break the rules of ship activation, by allowing "attacks" to be made outside of 1, 2, 3, in your quote?

If you're going to argue that technically you can use a Conc fire token outside of that step of actions, because commands are resolved during ship activation, then Counter has an attack step, it has a start, middle and an end.

You're confusing things - look at the actual wording you used.

We don't care about iThe Steps of an Attack - That's irrelevent

We're talking about The Attack Step - ONE STEP that references attacks. That is only found in the Activations - it is the "Attack Step" of an activation.

Otherwise, What "One" step of the Attack Profile is "The Attack Step", Singular?

Becuase they all.

Concentrate fire is different, becuase that is trigged and used DURING AN ATTACK .

Not during "the attack Step".

Because that's totally different in timing.

And...

Command resolution doesn't happen during ship's activation.

Squadron and Engineering happen after revealing a command dial .

Navigate happens during the determine curse step.

CF happens during the resolve attack effects step of the attack.

All four are different timing than during a ship's activation. It happens that 3/4 occur during the ship activation and CF usually does too, but not every time.

If an upgrade allowed you to execute a maneuver out of your activation. The same would happens with navigate.

The important thing here is that Impetuous says:

"At the end of your attack step..."

That is not the same as "at the end of your attack" because the attack step is a step during your ship's activation:

14 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

RRG PAGE 11 - "SHIP ACTIVATION":

Ship Activation

Ships are activated during the Ship Phase. When a ship is activated, its owner proceeds through the following steps .

1. Reveal Command Dial: Reveal the ship’s top command dial. Then either place the dial next to the ship in the play area or spend the dial to place the corresponding command token next to the ship in the play area.

2. Attack: Perform up to two attacks with the ship from different hull zones.

3. Execute Maneuver: Move the ship at its current speed.

• After a ship activates, place its revealed command dial faceup on its ship card to track that it has activated. • Each ship can activate only once per round.

Counter follows the steps of an attack, but is not part of the "Attack step" of a ship's activation

15 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

You're confusing things - look at the actual wording you used.

We don't care about iThe Steps of an Attack - That's irrelevent

We're talking about The Attack Step - ONE STEP that references attacks. That is only found in the Activations - it is the "Attack Step" of an activation.

Otherwise, What "One" step of the Attack Profile is "The Attack Step", Singular?

Becuase they all.

Concentrate fire is different, becuase that is trigged and used DURING AN ATTACK .

Not during "the attack Step".

Because that's totally different in timing.

I see, so you want it both ways, fair enough.

Just now, TheEasternKing said:

I see, so you want it both ways, fair enough.

I dont want it, I'm pointing out particular wording.

Also, I believe that confires should be during activations - I was pointing out though, that its a different argument for a different reason, and is not related to this discussion

8 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

And...

Command resolution doesn't happen during ship's activation.

Squadron and Engineering happen after revealing a command dial .

Navigate happens during the determine curse step.

CF happens during the resolve attack effects step of the attack.

All four are different timing than during a ship's activation. It happens that 3/4 occur during the ship activation and CF usually does too, but not every time.

If an upgrade allowed you to execute a maneuver out of your activation. The same would happens with navigate.

Command resolution does not happen during a ships activation?

Every command is resolved during ship activation, and only during ship activation, all 4 dials, and now due to Dras saying its OK, 3 command tokens out of 4 can only be used during a ships specific activation step sequence.

9 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

I dont want it, I'm pointing out particular wording.

Also, I believe that confires should be during activations - I was pointing out though, that its a different argument for a different reason, and is not related to this discussion

It says Conc Fire is resolved during the attack step, you argued that Conc fire can be used on a Counter attack.

You do seem to want it both ways.

7 minutes ago, TheEasternKing said:

and now due to Dras saying its OK, 3 command tokens out of 4 can only be used during a ships specific activation step sequence.

Also, you know... due to the rules .

Can you show some kind of rules-based case for why you categorically can't resolve commands outside of a ship's activation? Cause I just looked for it the other day and couldn't find such a thing.

Just now, TheEasternKing said:

It says Conc Fire is resolved during the attack step, you argued that Conc fire can be used on a Counter attack.

You do seem to want it both ways.

If it says that Confire can only be used during the "The Attack Step", then I'm wrong and it totally can't be used both ways.

Let me check

(Because I was shortcutting a quote, and not looking directly)

AHA

• Concentrate Fire: Resolve during the “Resolve Attack Effects” step of an attack.

IT IS REFERRING TO A DIFFERENT THING

It is referring to the "Resolve Attack Effects" step, OF AN ATTACK , not to "THE ATTACK STEP".

So I'm right so far.

They are two different things, NOT the same thing.

45 minutes ago, TheEasternKing said:

Command resolution does not happen during a ships activation?

Every command is resolved during ship activation, and only during ship activation, all 4 dials, and now due to Dras saying its OK, 3 command tokens out of 4 can only be used during a ships specific activation step sequence.

Nope.

Dials are revealed during ship activation.

Ships are activated during the Ship Phase. When a ship is activated, its owner proceeds through the following steps.
1. Reveal Command Dial: Reveal the ship’s top command dial. Then either place the dial next to the ship in the play area or spend the dial to place the corresponding command token next to the ship in the play area.
2. Attack: Perform up to two attacks with the ship from different hull zones.
3. Execute Maneuver: Move the ship at its current speed.
• After a ship activates, place its revealed command dial
faceup on its ship card to track that it has activated.
• Each ship can activate only once per round.

What happens is that the dial is used (as a command or to gain a tolen) or discarded.

When a ship is activated, its owner reveals that ship’s top command dial and places it next to the ship in the play area. It can be spent immediately to assign the corresponding command token to that ship, or it can be spent at the appropriate time to resolve that command.
• After a ship finishes its activation, if it did not spend its
command dial, that dial is discarded.

Nothing say you cannot resolve commands out of your activation. It is just impossible, cause the nature of 3 of those commands to happen, to happen. And for the fourth command it is impossible to resolve it with a dial cause the nature of the dial, not the command. That let us with the cf token as an anomaly but completely allowed. But cf is not an exception to a rule. That rule doesn't exist.

What prevent you from resolving other commands out of the ship activation is their timing.

What prevent you from resolving cf spending a dial out of the ship activation is the dial rule, not the commands rule.

35 minutes ago, GhostOfArdaedhel said:

Ghost? What they did to you? Maybe something you deserved?

9 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

And...

Command resolution doesn't happen during ship's activation.

Squadron and Engineering happen after revealing a command dial .

Navigate happens during the determine curse step.

CF happens during the resolve attack effects step of the attack.

All four are different timing than during a ship's activation. It happens that 3/4 occur during the ship activation and CF usually does too, but not every time.

If an upgrade allowed you to execute a maneuver out of your activation. The same would happens with navigate.

I'd make the argument that you are resolving a command during the ships activation. Since, you know, you have to activate a ship and flip its dial.

And you contradict yourself here. I'm not sure what you are trying to get at.

If you think commands are not resolved during a ships activation, then when are the resolved? Outside the activation? Which means you could use a CF token on a counter attack.

7 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Ships are activated during the Ship Phase. When a ship is activated, its owner proceeds through the following steps.
1. Reveal Command Dial: Reveal the ship’s top command dial. Then either place the dial next to the ship in the play area or spend the dial to place the corresponding command token next to the ship in the play area.
2. Attack: Perform up to two attacks with the ship from different hull zones.
3. Execute Maneuver: Move the ship at its current speed.
• After a ship activates, place its revealed command dial
faceup on its ship card to track that it has activated.
• Each ship can activate only once per round.

4 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I'd make the argument that you are resolving a command during the ships activation. Since, you know, you have to activate a ship and flip its dial.

And you contradict yourself here. I'm not sure what you are trying to get at.

If you think commands are not resolved during a ships activation, then when are the resolved? Outside the activation? Which means you could use a CF token on a counter attack.

Commands are resolving whenever it is supposed that command must be resolved.

There is nothing like "resolve commands" step during the ship activation as you can check in the RRG.

What happens is that, in order to resolve commands you have to spend dials and/or tokens.

Dial per its rule, can only be spent during the ship activation but not cause there is a rule that says that rather than two rules that says that dials are revealed during the ship activation and, if not used then, discarded. That avoid the use of dials out of the ship activation whatever the command timing.

Tokens have not that restrictions. They can be spent just in the appropriate time (the command timing). 3/4 command time happens during the ship activation. 1/4 happens during the resolve attack effects step which could or not happen during a ship activation.

That is what a cf token could be used during a counter attack as long as the ship didn't resolve that command before in the same round.

2 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Commands are resolving whenever it is supposed that command must be resolved.

There is nothing like "resolve commands" step during the ship activation as you can check in the RRG.

What happens is that, in order to resolve commands you have to spend dials and/or tokens.

Dial per its rule, can only be spent during the ship activation but not cause there is a rule that says that rather than two rules that says that dials are revealed during the ship activation and, if not used then, discarded. That avoid the use of dials out of the ship activation whatever the command timing.

Tokens have not that restrictions. They can be spent just in the appropriate time (the command timing). 3/4 command time happens during the ship activation. 1/4 happens during the resolve attack effects step which could or not happen during a ship activation.

That is what a cf token could be used during a counter attack as long as the ship didn't resolve that command before in the same round.

Right, but you are still resolving the dial/command during the ships activation.

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

Right, but you are still resolving the dial/command during the ships activation.

Is exchanging a dial for a token "resolving" said command?

21 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Is exchanging a dial for a token "resolving" said command?

Irrelevant. I was referencing this:

39 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Command resolution doesn't happen during ship's activation.

I'm confused as to where this came from.

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

Irrelevant. I was referencing this:

I'm confused as to where this came from.

I'm confused as all hell, too, but mostly because None of this has any bearing on the Topic in Question

I mean, its not even a parallel answer - the fact it was invoked in the first place was a mistake of two Similar-Sounding, but vastly different rules wordings.

cheers guys,

happy to conclude Impetuous can not counter attack again.

I have a question,

The line of text applies to both the Conc Fire dial, and the Conc Fire token, so can we now use the Dial on a Counter? I mean if we can apply the line of text in the RRG to encompass the token, what is stopping it being applied to the dial?

Personally you know my views, a ship has a specific activation sequence, and during the steps of that sequence it can resolve its commands, the break down of how and when (you use the commands) are a direct referral to the steps of a ships activation, this is like one of the questions where you say "just because it doesnt say you can't do something, doesn't mean you can.", like moving speed 5.

4 minutes ago, TheEasternKing said:

I have a question,

The line of text applies to both the Conc Fire dial, and the Conc Fire token, so can we now use the Dial on a Counter? I mean if we can apply the line of text in the RRG to encompass the token, what is stopping it being applied to the dial?

Personally you know my views, a ship has a specific activation sequence, and during the steps of that sequence it can resolve its commands, the break down of how and when (you use the commands) are a direct referral to the steps of a ships activation, this is like one of the questions where you say "just because it doesnt say you can't do something, doesn't mean you can.", like moving speed 5.

Dial is discarded at the end of activation if it was not spent. So you no longer have the dial to spend.